The ABC Homeopathy Forum
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Indian Homoeopathy.
Okay, I have to vent something here.Why is it that at least 25% of the posts here are from those asking for help for either penis size/shape, sexual health problems, or problems with height, and almost all of these are from the Indian community?
While it is true, SOMETIMES these things can fall within the realm of actual medical situations, and should be treated as such, for the most part they do not.
I think this stems from Indian Homoeopaths viewing Homoeopathy as some kind of bizarre, spiritual, magical panacea that can change absolutely anything and everything, even when there is no medical basis for the problem involved at all, and this is simply not the case.
1/. You CANNOT, CANNOT change the height of an an individual once they have reached maturation. This is a physical impossibility, and there is not one recorded case of this ever happening.
2/. Most sexual problems in relationships, are just that, a product of the relationship, and it is talking between partners which should be diagnosed, not remedies.
3/. You cannot change either the shape or size of your penis using Homoeopathic remedies!!
and most importantly:
4/. Homoeopathy is not 'magic', it is not a spiritual discipline, and it is not a religion. It is a scientific system of medicine, and it should be treated as such.
To give another example, today I read an article of a a method used by some Indian Homoeopaths to 'cure' their patients. It involves taking the case, and then WRITING the name of the remedy on a piece of paper which the patient then carries around with them to alleviate their ailments. What in the name of CHRIST is this about?!?
Another method used is to allow the patient to hold certain remedies and then to use a swinging pendant in order to select which is the most suitable!...THIS IS NOT HOMOEOPATHY, and it is time we distanced ourself from such ridiculous and unscientific notions.
Having an open mind in any subject is always a good thing, and this is particularly the case in Homoeopathy, as it is still very much an evolving subject, but when such 'open mindedness' gets to the point of being unable to discern between actual scientific development of the subject, and the most laughable of assertions/ methods used for treatment or diagnosis, something has to change.
When will it be realised by the Indian Homoeopathic community that our beloved art will never be taken as the very real and very serious medical science that it undoubtedly is, and not as some airy fairy method of healing, linked to such things as mantra chanting, and 'crystals', while they persist in such bizarre and totally unscientific methods?
I realise that these methods have been taken on in other countries also, but I am sorry, the majority DO originate in India, and I for one am VERY troubled by this.
-Jacob.
JCS2006 on 2007-02-16
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
LOL! I saw one of the sexual threads and left a link. You might want to bookmark it, and pass it on when appropriate. This guy knows about sex, and the causes for problems. SOME can benefit from herbs and whatnot, and many are behavior modifications/practices. You name it, if it's sex, Dr. Lin's got it covered!
http://www.actionlove.com/
http://www.actionlove.com/
11:11 last decade
Dear Jacob:
Plas, plas, plas (an onomatopeyic applause).
Really, I am agree AT ALL.
But perhaps this practices are not only usual in India (as you say). I've read a lot of things about kinesiology, meditation provings, and etc...
I think this is not scientific, it's only a way to pass the time , and may confuse to the people and the patients.
I prefer good provings, logic resources and time to analyze and work every cases.
Plas, plas, plas again.
Best regards
Andrés
Plas, plas, plas (an onomatopeyic applause).
Really, I am agree AT ALL.
But perhaps this practices are not only usual in India (as you say). I've read a lot of things about kinesiology, meditation provings, and etc...
I think this is not scientific, it's only a way to pass the time , and may confuse to the people and the patients.
I prefer good provings, logic resources and time to analyze and work every cases.
Plas, plas, plas again.
Best regards
Andrés
andres last decade
Jacob
I agree 100%. I also have a problem with this writing down the remedy over a glass of water malarky and the dosing. It just makes homeopathy look silly and unscientific.
I also have a problem with individuals giving moral advice based on their religion or culture. These biases are just doing harm to the homeopathic community. Just because they put Dr in front of their name they automatically assume that their opinions are more worthy than others. This is wrong. I often question whether they really are homeopathic doctors.
I agree 100%. I also have a problem with this writing down the remedy over a glass of water malarky and the dosing. It just makes homeopathy look silly and unscientific.
I also have a problem with individuals giving moral advice based on their religion or culture. These biases are just doing harm to the homeopathic community. Just because they put Dr in front of their name they automatically assume that their opinions are more worthy than others. This is wrong. I often question whether they really are homeopathic doctors.
Tina R last decade
Dear 11:11
Absolutely, some cases can benefit to some degree from such things as Ayurveda, Chinese Medicine, and even Erupoean Herbalism, as these disciplines only affect the mechanics of such problems, the physical dysfunction, and do not need to concern themselves with the deeper aspects of why thhis occurs, to work, but this is not true of Homoeopathy. We do not prescribe remedies for corporeal affections, as the causes of these lay in the patients mode of living, which naturally includes the nature of their relationships.
Dear Andres, indeed.
These things have become widespread, but most are either initiated or encompassed into Homoeopathic philosophy by Indian Homoeopaths. For example meditation provings, a lot of the time these are carried out by a group of people simply sitting around and meditating on a substance, without even taking it! This has nothing to do with Homoeopathic provings. Kinesiology may look good in theory, but it is not a proven science, and therefore has no place in our practices. Thankyou for the support.
Dear Tina.
I couldn't agree more with the points you make, especially this: 'I also have a problem with individuals giving moral advice based on their religion or culture.'
I have absolutely no problem with how a culture chooses to conduct itself, and I have no right to dictate whether such things as culture or religion are right or wrong, whether I agree with them or not, none of us do, unless they are actually oppressive or tyranical, but when such a culture completely sodomizes a pure science such as Homoeopathy with their religious, moral, and spiritual beliefs, something has to be said. India does not have some kind of 'divine' rite to degrade Homoeopathy with such things, just because it has been so widely accepted there, and it is time they realised this. Homoeopathy does not belong to any one nation.
I also agree with your point regarding 'Doctors'. From my understanding, almost anyone can set up practice in India as a Homoeopath, whether or not they have received training, or know anything about the subject at all, and may even call themselves 'Dr' to do so. This is not just the case with Homeoeopathy either. The medical training needed to receive an orthodox doctorate also, is a far cry from what is required in more developed parts of the world...
I know some very fine Indian Homoeopaths, and I would consider both Rajiv and Murthy on this very forum as falling into this category. I also know of some very fine Homoeopaths who do INCREDIBLE work in poor parts of India, where people would otherwise have no access to any kind of medical treatment whatsoever, and through this, they have developed, if you like, a 'subsystem' which allows them to accurately and effectively prescribe at speeds which are truly breathtaking, and shows a great deal of knowledge, and though this is not strictly classical, and sometimes could even be described as allopathic prescribing, it is very effective, and not only permissible, but necessary, as without such methods, many thousands of people would be dead right now, who now live something resembling normal healthy lives (living conditions and financial security notwithstanding), as they simply have no other access to treatment. As a race, we will, for many generations to come, have the need for surgeries which provide a quick and effective 'fix' for acute conditions, but we should never abandon our founding principles i.e ONE remedy at a time, the law of similars, totality of symptoms, and none repitition of dose, in order to accomplish this. Without a doubt we could learn a great deal from these people, but we have to remember this only represents the most superficial aspect of Homoeopathy, and is only acceptable in certain situations, as it is not what Homoeopathy is about at it's roots. This is something which the Indian Homoeopathic community needs to realise, as this 'subsystem' has fast become the norm there, resulting in a complete and widespread abandonment of the true principles of Homoeopathy in it's favour, and this cannot be allowed to continue, as it represents a complete bastardization and degradation of our noble science.
This 'subsystem' though is one of only very few beneficial things which has been produced by Indian Homoeopathy, and if it is to be taken seriously at all, and recognized as having great worth to the ever evolving medical system which is Homoeopathy, the Indian Homoeopathic community must first become organized with a view to distancing itself from certain such practices as those listed above, and the forced amalgamation of it's religious, cultural, and moral beliefs into Homoeopathy.
Best wishes to all.
-Jacob.
This majority of this post is an extract from my forthcoming book, and as such is, and remains the property of, JCS-Homoeopathy.com, and is covered by UK and international copyright laws.
Absolutely, some cases can benefit to some degree from such things as Ayurveda, Chinese Medicine, and even Erupoean Herbalism, as these disciplines only affect the mechanics of such problems, the physical dysfunction, and do not need to concern themselves with the deeper aspects of why thhis occurs, to work, but this is not true of Homoeopathy. We do not prescribe remedies for corporeal affections, as the causes of these lay in the patients mode of living, which naturally includes the nature of their relationships.
Dear Andres, indeed.
These things have become widespread, but most are either initiated or encompassed into Homoeopathic philosophy by Indian Homoeopaths. For example meditation provings, a lot of the time these are carried out by a group of people simply sitting around and meditating on a substance, without even taking it! This has nothing to do with Homoeopathic provings. Kinesiology may look good in theory, but it is not a proven science, and therefore has no place in our practices. Thankyou for the support.
Dear Tina.
I couldn't agree more with the points you make, especially this: 'I also have a problem with individuals giving moral advice based on their religion or culture.'
I have absolutely no problem with how a culture chooses to conduct itself, and I have no right to dictate whether such things as culture or religion are right or wrong, whether I agree with them or not, none of us do, unless they are actually oppressive or tyranical, but when such a culture completely sodomizes a pure science such as Homoeopathy with their religious, moral, and spiritual beliefs, something has to be said. India does not have some kind of 'divine' rite to degrade Homoeopathy with such things, just because it has been so widely accepted there, and it is time they realised this. Homoeopathy does not belong to any one nation.
I also agree with your point regarding 'Doctors'. From my understanding, almost anyone can set up practice in India as a Homoeopath, whether or not they have received training, or know anything about the subject at all, and may even call themselves 'Dr' to do so. This is not just the case with Homeoeopathy either. The medical training needed to receive an orthodox doctorate also, is a far cry from what is required in more developed parts of the world...
I know some very fine Indian Homoeopaths, and I would consider both Rajiv and Murthy on this very forum as falling into this category. I also know of some very fine Homoeopaths who do INCREDIBLE work in poor parts of India, where people would otherwise have no access to any kind of medical treatment whatsoever, and through this, they have developed, if you like, a 'subsystem' which allows them to accurately and effectively prescribe at speeds which are truly breathtaking, and shows a great deal of knowledge, and though this is not strictly classical, and sometimes could even be described as allopathic prescribing, it is very effective, and not only permissible, but necessary, as without such methods, many thousands of people would be dead right now, who now live something resembling normal healthy lives (living conditions and financial security notwithstanding), as they simply have no other access to treatment. As a race, we will, for many generations to come, have the need for surgeries which provide a quick and effective 'fix' for acute conditions, but we should never abandon our founding principles i.e ONE remedy at a time, the law of similars, totality of symptoms, and none repitition of dose, in order to accomplish this. Without a doubt we could learn a great deal from these people, but we have to remember this only represents the most superficial aspect of Homoeopathy, and is only acceptable in certain situations, as it is not what Homoeopathy is about at it's roots. This is something which the Indian Homoeopathic community needs to realise, as this 'subsystem' has fast become the norm there, resulting in a complete and widespread abandonment of the true principles of Homoeopathy in it's favour, and this cannot be allowed to continue, as it represents a complete bastardization and degradation of our noble science.
This 'subsystem' though is one of only very few beneficial things which has been produced by Indian Homoeopathy, and if it is to be taken seriously at all, and recognized as having great worth to the ever evolving medical system which is Homoeopathy, the Indian Homoeopathic community must first become organized with a view to distancing itself from certain such practices as those listed above, and the forced amalgamation of it's religious, cultural, and moral beliefs into Homoeopathy.
Best wishes to all.
-Jacob.
This majority of this post is an extract from my forthcoming book, and as such is, and remains the property of, JCS-Homoeopathy.com, and is covered by UK and international copyright laws.
JCS2006 last decade
At the age of almost 50, when I might have expected to lose some height as a result of osteoporosis (not diagnosed, but in my family history), I 'shot up' 3/4 inch in the course of a year (between medical checkups). I wasn't attempting to change my height and I'm not aware I did anything at all. Perhaps a hormonal response to approaching menopause.
As far as homeopathic practice in India, David Little gave a wonderful interview on hpathy where he described some of the clinic practitioners who were so fantastically well versed in the materia medica that they had a pretty good idea when a patient approached them what they needed. Any questions then asked by the homeopath were either to clarify a choice between a couple of remedies or as a gesture of courtesy so it did not appear the patient was being dismissed too quickly. If that is the sort of practice you had in mind, I don't think it was allopathic. More an extreme level of competency that only a few may achieve.
As far as homeopathic practice in India, David Little gave a wonderful interview on hpathy where he described some of the clinic practitioners who were so fantastically well versed in the materia medica that they had a pretty good idea when a patient approached them what they needed. Any questions then asked by the homeopath were either to clarify a choice between a couple of remedies or as a gesture of courtesy so it did not appear the patient was being dismissed too quickly. If that is the sort of practice you had in mind, I don't think it was allopathic. More an extreme level of competency that only a few may achieve.
Daisy43 last decade
Dear Daisy, 3/4 of an inch is not a drastic change, and could well be the result of improved posture, I have seen this occur myself.
The type of ability you describe above is what all Homoeopaths aspire to, I can do this myself, having self proved almost 300 remedies. The practitioners David Little is talking about are obviously the exception rather than the rule, and as stated above, I have the greatest respect for such people, as they are obviously 'classical' Homoeopaths.
The issue I am outlining is how the subject is actually practiced in India as a whole, some of the more 'out there' diagnostic and prescribing tools used, the way remedies are dosed (which is mostly based on allopathic principles), the way religion and moral issues have been incorporated into it's doctrine, and the obvious deviation from 'Classical' principles in the way it is mostly used. Also, and very importantly, the way it is unregulated so anyone can 'set up shop' and call themselves a Homoeopath, which in itself is one of the main reasons all these things have been allowed to occur.
Thanks for your input.
The type of ability you describe above is what all Homoeopaths aspire to, I can do this myself, having self proved almost 300 remedies. The practitioners David Little is talking about are obviously the exception rather than the rule, and as stated above, I have the greatest respect for such people, as they are obviously 'classical' Homoeopaths.
The issue I am outlining is how the subject is actually practiced in India as a whole, some of the more 'out there' diagnostic and prescribing tools used, the way remedies are dosed (which is mostly based on allopathic principles), the way religion and moral issues have been incorporated into it's doctrine, and the obvious deviation from 'Classical' principles in the way it is mostly used. Also, and very importantly, the way it is unregulated so anyone can 'set up shop' and call themselves a Homoeopath, which in itself is one of the main reasons all these things have been allowed to occur.
Thanks for your input.
JCS2006 last decade
For those interested in this subject, it may be worth reading through the thread entitled 'Increase your height' which is a very good example of the point I am trying to convey.
JCS2006 last decade
Dear Jacob,
In India there are hundreds of thousands of homeopaths produced by a number of homeopathic colleges of different qualities and standards.Some of these colleges are excellent and some are average while others are not so.So, there are some top class homeopaths, some good ones and many bad ones.It is perhaps inevitable because of the sheer number of homeopaths and certifying institutions.But one thing is for sure, India has accepted homeopathy like no country has accepted it.There are hundreds of homeopathy stores in any big Indian city and a homeopath on every street corner.Most of the bad ones treat mostly acutes and hence not much need to worry.The real chronic cases are mostly handled by the competent ones who build up a reputation based on their abilty to handle deep rooted miasmatic diseases.Word of mouth is the most important way by which a doctor's name and fame spreads in a collectivist culture like India.
Its a fascinating story.I hope you visit India some time and look for yourself at this ancient country.Its a fascinating place mind you.Many a westerner has fallen to its charms!!
Rajiv
In India there are hundreds of thousands of homeopaths produced by a number of homeopathic colleges of different qualities and standards.Some of these colleges are excellent and some are average while others are not so.So, there are some top class homeopaths, some good ones and many bad ones.It is perhaps inevitable because of the sheer number of homeopaths and certifying institutions.But one thing is for sure, India has accepted homeopathy like no country has accepted it.There are hundreds of homeopathy stores in any big Indian city and a homeopath on every street corner.Most of the bad ones treat mostly acutes and hence not much need to worry.The real chronic cases are mostly handled by the competent ones who build up a reputation based on their abilty to handle deep rooted miasmatic diseases.Word of mouth is the most important way by which a doctor's name and fame spreads in a collectivist culture like India.
Its a fascinating story.I hope you visit India some time and look for yourself at this ancient country.Its a fascinating place mind you.Many a westerner has fallen to its charms!!
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
Murthy wrote: 'Dear Jacob
If your views about Indian homeopaths are based purely on what you see on this and similar forums,perhaps you have a point.
India has a few lakhs of trained homeopaths,and atleast a lakh of them are good homeopaths.
You won't see them on these forums as they are too busy with their practice.
A good Indian homeopath charges upwards of Rs.300 per patient, and sees about 30 patients in a day on average. That is close to Rs 10,000 in a day, and a whooping 3 Lakhs per month.
By Indian standards it is lot of money, and you will find atleast a hundred such prosperous homeopaths in every major city.
Incidentally most of them follow the Hannemanian homeopathy.
I thought I should put thinks in proper perspective.
Murthy'
Dear Murthy, thankyou for joining the debate. There are always two sides to an argument ,and it's good to have input from both.
My views on Indian Homoeopathy can only come from what I have seen, as is this case with any of us, and on any subject, so yes a large part of this is based upon what I have seen on forums, but not all. A large part also comes from reading some of the works of Indian Homoeopaths.
I understand the point you are making, but people can only go by that which a particular group presents to the world, as a whole, and the opinion I have formed is based only upon that which I have seen so far of Indian Homoeopathy. I also cannot accept that all of the 100's of 1000's of Indian Homoeopaths who do NOT fit into this category are just too busy to make themselves known, as competent classical Homoeopaths from almost every other nation in the world seem to post online.
As stated above I am very much aware there are indeed some very fine Indian Homoeopaths who follow the 'classical' route, and some who have actually advanced the subject in many ways, but I am afraid I still believe the majority there do NOT fit into this category, as evident by that which is presented as a whole.
Best wishes.
-Jacob.
If your views about Indian homeopaths are based purely on what you see on this and similar forums,perhaps you have a point.
India has a few lakhs of trained homeopaths,and atleast a lakh of them are good homeopaths.
You won't see them on these forums as they are too busy with their practice.
A good Indian homeopath charges upwards of Rs.300 per patient, and sees about 30 patients in a day on average. That is close to Rs 10,000 in a day, and a whooping 3 Lakhs per month.
By Indian standards it is lot of money, and you will find atleast a hundred such prosperous homeopaths in every major city.
Incidentally most of them follow the Hannemanian homeopathy.
I thought I should put thinks in proper perspective.
Murthy'
Dear Murthy, thankyou for joining the debate. There are always two sides to an argument ,and it's good to have input from both.
My views on Indian Homoeopathy can only come from what I have seen, as is this case with any of us, and on any subject, so yes a large part of this is based upon what I have seen on forums, but not all. A large part also comes from reading some of the works of Indian Homoeopaths.
I understand the point you are making, but people can only go by that which a particular group presents to the world, as a whole, and the opinion I have formed is based only upon that which I have seen so far of Indian Homoeopathy. I also cannot accept that all of the 100's of 1000's of Indian Homoeopaths who do NOT fit into this category are just too busy to make themselves known, as competent classical Homoeopaths from almost every other nation in the world seem to post online.
As stated above I am very much aware there are indeed some very fine Indian Homoeopaths who follow the 'classical' route, and some who have actually advanced the subject in many ways, but I am afraid I still believe the majority there do NOT fit into this category, as evident by that which is presented as a whole.
Best wishes.
-Jacob.
JCS2006 last decade
Dear Rajiv, welcome to the debate to you too.
I understand your point regarding the sheer number of Homoeopaths in India, and of the huge variation in the way the subject is taught, but we have to remember the majority claiming themselves to be Homoeopaths have never even received such formal training, and have merely picked up a few books and started practicing, as has to be evident by the people who post on these forums. Maybe both of these things are part of the problem, maybe if there were tighter measures in place governing the practice of Homoeopathy in India A/. There would be more uniformity in teaching the subject, and B/. People would not be allowed to do this there. But even this is not the full story. The 'sub-system' which I have detailed above, has been routinely accepted in India, regardless of whether this is alongside some apparently hidden group of true, classical Homoeopaths, and this has been at the cost of the true, Hahnemannian way, this cannot be denied because this is evident by merely picking up any Indian book on Homoeopathy, with a few exceptions, and this has given birth to, not entirely, but predominantly, almost an entire continent of 'The Mongrel Sect' of Homoeopaths.
How can anyone deny this? Visit any forum on the internet, you can spot the Indian Homoeopaths immediately, they are predominatly the ones prescribing multiple remedies at once, on only very few indications, in high potencies and for months at a time, and most of these are very deep acting remedies indeed.
I agee there is a place for such a sub-system in true Homoeopathy as it exits in the world today, but in India this is becoming more and more removed from classical principles by the day, and this is NOT good for the future of Homoeopathy.
In closing, I think India is a beautiful country, it has given many fine things to the world, and I do indeed hope to visit one day, but I am sorry, when it comes to Homoeopathy, I make no allowances for cultural idiosyncracies, and the state of Homoeopathy there as presented by the majority, is of great concern to me indeed.
Best wishes.
-Jacob.
I understand your point regarding the sheer number of Homoeopaths in India, and of the huge variation in the way the subject is taught, but we have to remember the majority claiming themselves to be Homoeopaths have never even received such formal training, and have merely picked up a few books and started practicing, as has to be evident by the people who post on these forums. Maybe both of these things are part of the problem, maybe if there were tighter measures in place governing the practice of Homoeopathy in India A/. There would be more uniformity in teaching the subject, and B/. People would not be allowed to do this there. But even this is not the full story. The 'sub-system' which I have detailed above, has been routinely accepted in India, regardless of whether this is alongside some apparently hidden group of true, classical Homoeopaths, and this has been at the cost of the true, Hahnemannian way, this cannot be denied because this is evident by merely picking up any Indian book on Homoeopathy, with a few exceptions, and this has given birth to, not entirely, but predominantly, almost an entire continent of 'The Mongrel Sect' of Homoeopaths.
How can anyone deny this? Visit any forum on the internet, you can spot the Indian Homoeopaths immediately, they are predominatly the ones prescribing multiple remedies at once, on only very few indications, in high potencies and for months at a time, and most of these are very deep acting remedies indeed.
I agee there is a place for such a sub-system in true Homoeopathy as it exits in the world today, but in India this is becoming more and more removed from classical principles by the day, and this is NOT good for the future of Homoeopathy.
In closing, I think India is a beautiful country, it has given many fine things to the world, and I do indeed hope to visit one day, but I am sorry, when it comes to Homoeopathy, I make no allowances for cultural idiosyncracies, and the state of Homoeopathy there as presented by the majority, is of great concern to me indeed.
Best wishes.
-Jacob.
JCS2006 last decade
Dear Jacob,
Your point is well taken.Unfortunately, some of the Indian homeopaths who post on these forums (specially this one due to its extremely liberal policy) are of the non-classical type.Hence your comments are valid.Prescribing mixtures and combinations is not homeopathy at all, whether it is by an Indian or any one else.
Since i am a homeopath basedin India, perhaps i can shed some light on its state in India.To understand that you have to have a bit of an understanding of the country itself.Its a mind boggling mix of sub-cultures where the language spoken changes almost every 100 kms.Level of education among the masses is still pretty low.We are talking about a population of over 1 billion people, most of whom are not conversant with English.Now, these colleges that i talked about, many of them are located in some very small towns and cities, where quality of education in general is much lower than in big cities like Bombay, Delhi, Chennai, Bangalore etc. This gets reflected in the quality of homeopathy taught also.Lack of fluency or proficiency in the English language is another hindrance as most of the text books are in English.Translations in India's native languages are not available or what is available is of very poor quality.
But, most of these homeopaths most of the time are treating acutes such as fever, diarrhoea, injuries, and so on.They are able to do that reasonably well asn are more cost effective for the population as teh fees charged and cost of medicines are much lower than the allopathic option.But whenever a case becomes complicated or long drawn out, people invariably choose allopathy over homeopathy.So, hardly a few chronic cases come to the fold of these ill equipped homeopaths.
But, in bigger cities and towns, in each of them there are some (as Murthy pointed out) excellent classical homeopaths who treat chronic diseases.People with chronic diseases which could not be helped/suppressed by allopathy choose to come to them as they enjoy excellent reputation because of good word of mouth about them.Many of these leading homeopaths in most cities have been into homeopathy for two or three generations and are as good as you get anywhere in the world.People in these cities normally know about these good homeopaths.But again as Murthy pointed out, the sheer numbers of patients that they see daily is so high and the income is so much that they would hardly get time for any thing else.Then there are those famous homeopaths who in the beginning of their practice, followed classical homeopathy.But as they became famous and the number of patients flocking to them increased, they started to adopt short cuts in ordr to save time so as to make more money.The combinations and this for that homeopathy is practiced by many of these guys.
So, to sum it up its a complex pot pourri reflecting the country itself, which is a maddening but vibrant place to live in.I could go on, but i hope you have got some idea of the picture that i am trying to present.One last comment that i would like to make is that these mad cap practices that you mentioned about people keeping the name of the remedy in their pocket etc. instead of taking it must be in some isolated cases.The homeopath concerned may have publicised his misadventures to have reached some one sitting in UK and further.With internet such publicity stunts are quite easy to achieve.But, let me assure you, these mad practices are not even known to me to be practiced by any homeopath in my knowledge.I know at least a few hundred homeopaths in half a dozen cities of India.None of them is doing that.So, that should give you an idea.
Regards,
Rajiv
Your point is well taken.Unfortunately, some of the Indian homeopaths who post on these forums (specially this one due to its extremely liberal policy) are of the non-classical type.Hence your comments are valid.Prescribing mixtures and combinations is not homeopathy at all, whether it is by an Indian or any one else.
Since i am a homeopath basedin India, perhaps i can shed some light on its state in India.To understand that you have to have a bit of an understanding of the country itself.Its a mind boggling mix of sub-cultures where the language spoken changes almost every 100 kms.Level of education among the masses is still pretty low.We are talking about a population of over 1 billion people, most of whom are not conversant with English.Now, these colleges that i talked about, many of them are located in some very small towns and cities, where quality of education in general is much lower than in big cities like Bombay, Delhi, Chennai, Bangalore etc. This gets reflected in the quality of homeopathy taught also.Lack of fluency or proficiency in the English language is another hindrance as most of the text books are in English.Translations in India's native languages are not available or what is available is of very poor quality.
But, most of these homeopaths most of the time are treating acutes such as fever, diarrhoea, injuries, and so on.They are able to do that reasonably well asn are more cost effective for the population as teh fees charged and cost of medicines are much lower than the allopathic option.But whenever a case becomes complicated or long drawn out, people invariably choose allopathy over homeopathy.So, hardly a few chronic cases come to the fold of these ill equipped homeopaths.
But, in bigger cities and towns, in each of them there are some (as Murthy pointed out) excellent classical homeopaths who treat chronic diseases.People with chronic diseases which could not be helped/suppressed by allopathy choose to come to them as they enjoy excellent reputation because of good word of mouth about them.Many of these leading homeopaths in most cities have been into homeopathy for two or three generations and are as good as you get anywhere in the world.People in these cities normally know about these good homeopaths.But again as Murthy pointed out, the sheer numbers of patients that they see daily is so high and the income is so much that they would hardly get time for any thing else.Then there are those famous homeopaths who in the beginning of their practice, followed classical homeopathy.But as they became famous and the number of patients flocking to them increased, they started to adopt short cuts in ordr to save time so as to make more money.The combinations and this for that homeopathy is practiced by many of these guys.
So, to sum it up its a complex pot pourri reflecting the country itself, which is a maddening but vibrant place to live in.I could go on, but i hope you have got some idea of the picture that i am trying to present.One last comment that i would like to make is that these mad cap practices that you mentioned about people keeping the name of the remedy in their pocket etc. instead of taking it must be in some isolated cases.The homeopath concerned may have publicised his misadventures to have reached some one sitting in UK and further.With internet such publicity stunts are quite easy to achieve.But, let me assure you, these mad practices are not even known to me to be practiced by any homeopath in my knowledge.I know at least a few hundred homeopaths in half a dozen cities of India.None of them is doing that.So, that should give you an idea.
Regards,
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
I was looking at the website of Dr. Joel Sheppard, of Chicago. He is a homeopath who treated me many years ago. The site says to expect the first examination to be two-three hours. I can't imagine any homeopath seeing great numbers of patients, in one day, if a proper, intial exam takes that kind of time.
11:11 last decade
Jacobs concerns are quite genuine. All such homeopaths are causing a great harm to homeopathy. It is not at all , homeopathy. This lot is further confusing the scientific world, which is already inclined to attack homeopathy, for several other reasons. Homeopathic community must discourage all such wrong practices ,adopted by some, under the name of homeopathy, These people are instrumental in lowering the name of this marvelous therapeutic medical science in the eyes of those who dont understand homeopathy.
sbahl last decade
Sure...but Jacob is bashing Indian Homeopaths just to take patients to his own site.
Moderator has already warned him on another thread.
(The hidden agenda !).
Besides he is commenting on Indian Homeopaths even without knowing anything about India and the wealth of homeopathic knowledge that exists in this country.
I have travelled to more than 20 countries around the globe...but have not found any country where homeopathy is as popular as in India.
Pankaj Varma
Moderator has already warned him on another thread.
(The hidden agenda !).
Besides he is commenting on Indian Homeopaths even without knowing anything about India and the wealth of homeopathic knowledge that exists in this country.
I have travelled to more than 20 countries around the globe...but have not found any country where homeopathy is as popular as in India.
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Dear Rajiv, I really do understand the point you are making, and being part of the group who represent real Homoeopathy in India, you are obviously eager to make sure both sides of the argument are presented, and I thank you for this. However, you still cannot deny the fact that a large proportion of Homoeopathy in India has been sodomized by the forced integration of 'religion' into it's doctrines. You also cannot deny that it is from India that such madcap practices as the ones give above orginate from. I do not agree these things are isolated incidents either, I have looked through many books over the years written by Indian Homoeopaths, and have seen such methods described myself. I do think I've been pretty fair in my analysis also, as I have given full credit to those who represent REAL Homoeopathy in India, and even to those who have developed this higly effective subsystem of Homoeopathy, something I would have not been so flexible on before visiting these internet forums, and actually speaking to the Indian Homoeopaths, and understanding the way Homoeopathy is practiced there. Moreover though, and this may sound harsh, I am a scientist, my interest is in the truth at all costs, and part of this interest is reporting the truth about Homoeopathy as it is practiced in the world today (which actually forms a section of my forthcoming book), as it is only by doing this, change can occur, therefore, the conditions which give/gave rise to this situation, are no longer the issue, only that the situation changes.
I have the greatest respect for you as a person, a Homoeopath, and a fellow seeker of the truth, but I am afraid on this I must respectfully stick to the points I have originally raised.
Best wishes.
-Jacob.
I have the greatest respect for you as a person, a Homoeopath, and a fellow seeker of the truth, but I am afraid on this I must respectfully stick to the points I have originally raised.
Best wishes.
-Jacob.
JCS2006 last decade
Sbahl, I couldn't agree more, and this is the very point which I am trying to make, thankyou for the support :)
JCS2006 last decade
Here we go again...
'Mr' Varma.
I have warned you before...if you wish to address me, you will do so in a civilized manner, and without resorting to personal remarks, or manipulating my words in order to promote your own, obviously quite twisted view of what constitutes reality.
Firstly, I am totally unaware of any 'warning' made by the moderator here regarding my posts, but if he has a problem with these, it is up to HIM to approach me about this...NOT you.
Secondly, do not EVER assign to me any of the bass motivations which govern the way in which your own mind works, as in terms of morality, spiritually, intellect, and especially Homoeopathy, you do not even exist as far as I am concerned. I hope this is now abundantly clear?
'Thankyou'.
'Mr' Varma.
I have warned you before...if you wish to address me, you will do so in a civilized manner, and without resorting to personal remarks, or manipulating my words in order to promote your own, obviously quite twisted view of what constitutes reality.
Firstly, I am totally unaware of any 'warning' made by the moderator here regarding my posts, but if he has a problem with these, it is up to HIM to approach me about this...NOT you.
Secondly, do not EVER assign to me any of the bass motivations which govern the way in which your own mind works, as in terms of morality, spiritually, intellect, and especially Homoeopathy, you do not even exist as far as I am concerned. I hope this is now abundantly clear?
'Thankyou'.
JCS2006 last decade
I have no idea what the above phrase means, but I was brought up to believe it extremely poor manners to speak in a language not known to all partipants of a discussion. I am sure I am not alone in this.
JCS2006 last decade
Re: Chronic Fatigue Syndrom From moderator on 2007-02-17
Jacob,
Please do not ask people to contact you through other channels. This is against the forum rules.
Thank you,
Simon
Report post to moderator
Jacob,
Please do not ask people to contact you through other channels. This is against the forum rules.
Thank you,
Simon
Report post to moderator
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Dear Jacob,
I respect your intensity as well as scientific temper.I just tried to present a perspective from someone who seeks the truth all the time like you and is based in India.It is always good to look at an issue from the inside as well as outside.So, if you are really interested in this issue, may be a visit to India to study how homeopathy works here may not be out of order.That will help to really ground your perspectives much closer to the truth of Indian homeopathy.
I am aware that 90 to 95% of the homeopaths who come out of the colleges are not finished products.Beacuse a 4 year program out of which 2 years goes in studying the anatomy and vacations is not sufficient to produce a quality homeopath.Besides, to most of these guys, homeopathy is just a means to earn their livelihood and not a means to serve the masses.So, they don't engage in the hard and sustained study that is required to become a master homeopath.
But due to the sheer numbers of homeopaths produced in the country and also a abundance of talent in this country, there are close to 5% of the overall population of homeopaths (that too is a huge number, in many many thousands) who are as good as you will find anywhere.As i explained earlier, the real chronic disease are handled by these good homeopaths.The general quality also ran homeopath gets to handle mostly acutes and charges very low fees that includes the medicine cost.To cite an example, in Patna, the city to which i belong, there is a homeopath (very ordinary ability.Can't communicate in English) who used to charge Rs.10 for consulting a patient and used to sit in a room surrounded by his patients.He would dispose of the patients one by one but the crowd would never end.As one patient leaves, another arrives.He still practices 25 years later in the same way.At any given point of time surrounded by 25-30 patients in that room and 30 odd waiting in a room opposite the street which he has rented later.That guy does not get to handle chronic cases.Does not understand much about miasms, but is an absolute master when it comes to handling acutes.Earns upwards of Rs 2 or 3 lacs per month, treating a few hundred patients every day.
Does it sound unbelievable to a western homeopath?You got to come to India to watch things like this.
India is a country like no other in the world in terms of its social, linguistic and cultural complexity.To understand anything about India better, you cannot just rely on books written by people who do not even represent the mainstream homeopathy as practiced in India.Here, for most people it is a case of survival on a day to day basis and to be able to earn their daily bread (I am talking of the poor majority of the population, not the rich Indians that you meet on these forums including me).These very simple and naive homeopaths as the one i mentioned above are doing a much greater service to the poor population than all the Praful Vijaykars, Rajan Sankarans and Subrata Kumar Banerjeas put together.These homeopaths ensure that the poorest of the poor of this great country get access to basic health services at prices that they can afford.For example, the Rs.10 that this guy charges, a poor man can earn in an hour of work.If he were to go to a top notch homeopath, he would have to shell out Rs. 250 or Rs. 300 per visit.An allopath is out of his range.I know of many poor families who had to sell their agricultural land to just meet the exorbitant charges of getting treated allopathically.These humble homeopaths provide an alternative to these poor people to keep them out of the sharks of teh allopathic world.And these are 'SHARKS'.Believe me.
I know i may come across as a bit emotional in this post.But then this is the India i know and thought would complete the picture a little bit more.
To sum up, it is not only about homeopathic principles and philosophy, it is also about a social and economic reality of a 1 billion plus country that is being assaulted by the MNCs of the pharma inductry who are just lookng at it as a market to be goobled up.Homeopathy, just due to its sheer popularity in India helps to keep these allopathic sharks at bay.It is a major social role that it plays.
With best wishes for your search of the truth.May we meet in 'TRUTH' some day.
Your friend,
Rajiv
I respect your intensity as well as scientific temper.I just tried to present a perspective from someone who seeks the truth all the time like you and is based in India.It is always good to look at an issue from the inside as well as outside.So, if you are really interested in this issue, may be a visit to India to study how homeopathy works here may not be out of order.That will help to really ground your perspectives much closer to the truth of Indian homeopathy.
I am aware that 90 to 95% of the homeopaths who come out of the colleges are not finished products.Beacuse a 4 year program out of which 2 years goes in studying the anatomy and vacations is not sufficient to produce a quality homeopath.Besides, to most of these guys, homeopathy is just a means to earn their livelihood and not a means to serve the masses.So, they don't engage in the hard and sustained study that is required to become a master homeopath.
But due to the sheer numbers of homeopaths produced in the country and also a abundance of talent in this country, there are close to 5% of the overall population of homeopaths (that too is a huge number, in many many thousands) who are as good as you will find anywhere.As i explained earlier, the real chronic disease are handled by these good homeopaths.The general quality also ran homeopath gets to handle mostly acutes and charges very low fees that includes the medicine cost.To cite an example, in Patna, the city to which i belong, there is a homeopath (very ordinary ability.Can't communicate in English) who used to charge Rs.10 for consulting a patient and used to sit in a room surrounded by his patients.He would dispose of the patients one by one but the crowd would never end.As one patient leaves, another arrives.He still practices 25 years later in the same way.At any given point of time surrounded by 25-30 patients in that room and 30 odd waiting in a room opposite the street which he has rented later.That guy does not get to handle chronic cases.Does not understand much about miasms, but is an absolute master when it comes to handling acutes.Earns upwards of Rs 2 or 3 lacs per month, treating a few hundred patients every day.
Does it sound unbelievable to a western homeopath?You got to come to India to watch things like this.
India is a country like no other in the world in terms of its social, linguistic and cultural complexity.To understand anything about India better, you cannot just rely on books written by people who do not even represent the mainstream homeopathy as practiced in India.Here, for most people it is a case of survival on a day to day basis and to be able to earn their daily bread (I am talking of the poor majority of the population, not the rich Indians that you meet on these forums including me).These very simple and naive homeopaths as the one i mentioned above are doing a much greater service to the poor population than all the Praful Vijaykars, Rajan Sankarans and Subrata Kumar Banerjeas put together.These homeopaths ensure that the poorest of the poor of this great country get access to basic health services at prices that they can afford.For example, the Rs.10 that this guy charges, a poor man can earn in an hour of work.If he were to go to a top notch homeopath, he would have to shell out Rs. 250 or Rs. 300 per visit.An allopath is out of his range.I know of many poor families who had to sell their agricultural land to just meet the exorbitant charges of getting treated allopathically.These humble homeopaths provide an alternative to these poor people to keep them out of the sharks of teh allopathic world.And these are 'SHARKS'.Believe me.
I know i may come across as a bit emotional in this post.But then this is the India i know and thought would complete the picture a little bit more.
To sum up, it is not only about homeopathic principles and philosophy, it is also about a social and economic reality of a 1 billion plus country that is being assaulted by the MNCs of the pharma inductry who are just lookng at it as a market to be goobled up.Homeopathy, just due to its sheer popularity in India helps to keep these allopathic sharks at bay.It is a major social role that it plays.
With best wishes for your search of the truth.May we meet in 'TRUTH' some day.
Your friend,
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
Rajiv, that's very interesting about the homeopaths keeping Big Pharma away. GOOD! Though I have an interest for a doctor, it's mostly that he's an empath that makes him so good. he gives me drugs that make me feel better, but they DO NOT CURE.
Regarding all of the less than good homeopaths, the same is true in allopathy. The American hospital system is like the number one killer of US people. They screw up all of the time, and the result is malpractice lawsuits, and the incredible acrimony between law and medicine.
I have heard that in the far east, an accupuncurist does not get paid if the patient doesn't get better. Now, there's a good idea!
Regarding all of the less than good homeopaths, the same is true in allopathy. The American hospital system is like the number one killer of US people. They screw up all of the time, and the result is malpractice lawsuits, and the incredible acrimony between law and medicine.
I have heard that in the far east, an accupuncurist does not get paid if the patient doesn't get better. Now, there's a good idea!
11:11 last decade
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