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Pancreatic Tumor

My 11 y.o dog has been diagnosed with multiple Pancreatic tumors and low thyroid. As a result of the tumors her blood sugar dropped and she has been placed on Prednisone 20mg 2x a day along with her Thyroid meds. She did not tolerate the 20mg 2x a day so I decreased it to 15mg 2 x a day and her breathing has not been as labored as often however her mood is depressed, she is severely bloated and her appetite is not good at times. She is also on a high carb diet of noodles with chicken 3 x a day for her blood sugar. I am not sure what to do to help her prognosis which at this time is not good. I want to start on a better diet and I need advice on the steroid. My vet says if I take her off the steroid her blood sugar will bottom out and she will seizure. I really want her to hav more quality of life. Help me please!!
 
  maggiemae on 2005-03-11
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Is she spayed? Prednisone may cause tumors in unspayed dogs.What is the vet advise?(mine would be: change the vet for the one who is compassionate, open-minded and NOT TRYING TO SCARE YOU into continuation of the drugs!)


I didn't understand the part of high carb. diet for her blood sugar--she has hypoglycemia? Are you testing her sugar?
Anyway prednisone might antidote homeopathic remedies-that's why it is advisable to gradually decrese it-the best diet is the raw diet (Namaste wrote about it 2-3 months ago on this forum).

At least once a day give her 4-6 tblsp of flaxseed oil (the best is Barlean's hight lignan) mixed with about one cup of LOWFAT ricotta or cottage or farmer's cheese.
Organic.
 
Astra2012 last decade
I would change the vet but most vets do not like to follow another in a major diagnosis. Not to mention I am already $800 into this one. I never understood the high carb diet for the low blood sugar either. I have episodes of low blood sugar as well and I know the human remedy is a high protein low carb diet. I am not testing her sugar. How do I? How do I gradually decrease the steriods without killing her. I scared to try without knowledge of how. My vet said to just take her off if I want but I'm an asthmatic and I know from my history you can't just stop steroids. When I just decreased her a little she had an episode of disorientation. What does the raw diet consist of and where do I buy the type of flaxseed oil you mentioned? Thanks so much!!
 
maggiemae last decade
I forgot to answer your first question. She is spayed. Thanks again.
 
maggiemae last decade
veterinary care is so expensive (although not always effective).
Please read thread "eutanaasia or still hope".

My dog was getting prednisone (that was before my hom. days) at least once a year for her allergies. it started with a pill twice a day for 4 days, then once a day for 4 days, and the rest every second day, once a day.
(After few years it stoppped working-fortunately I became interested in hom. meanwhile and sulphur 15c single dose was all she needed).Anyway-decrease it gradually.

In which country do you live?
I can get Barlean's flaxseed oil in local food store in the usa. they also have a web site where you can find their distributors. (btw: it's highly recommended by dr. Johanna Budwig-I just echo her)
 
Astra2012 last decade
is it possible that the pancreatic tumours are causing an excess amount of insulin to be produced? If this is the case then it will be a different situation from the recommended diet for humans you mention, which provides the body with a steady/low amount of carbs and effectively means that the demand on the insulin feedback system is steady thus theoretically producing less risk of hypoglycaemia. With pancreatic tumours this is different - if it is the case that too much insulin is being produced then high carb may make sure that this extra insulin is used up more and help prevent hypos (this is only my thoughts and not a definite, just trying to understand the advice you've been given). I've no experience on how steroids affect blood sugar but they will help the adrenal system if that is not working properly and all these systems are interlinked. Could you vary the diet with rice sometimes instead of noodles and add a few vegetables? I'm not a dog expert so don't know what would be a really good diet for a dog, so again this is just a thought.
If your dog stays on steroids it is possible to reduce some of the side effects (without stopping the work of the steroids) by giving the homeopathic form of the steroid on a daily basis.
 
erika last decade
Can I buy the homeopathic form of steriod at a GNC or herbal store? I will try the rice instead since that will be more nutritios. From what I understand the tumor causes the low blood sugar???
Thanks!
 
maggiemae last decade
you should be able to buy the homeopathic form of steroid (specify prednisone when you order) from a homeopathic pharmacy by mail order/online order (helios homeopathics, ainsworths are the ones i know in the uk - check the abc remedy list!!!). your local herbal or health shop may be able to order it for you if they order homeopathic remedies. It makes sense that if the tumour causes the low blood sugar then maybe the insulin production is working way overtime......no experience of treating this but would suggest using pancreatin or insulin in homeopathic form to help ease symptoms. do you have a homeopathic vet near you?
 
erika last decade
if the pancreatic tumor causes low blood sugar (how do you know that without testing?) it must somehow increase insulin production-but do you know that?

And what does prednisone have to do with it? I don't believe it actually either blocks insulin or in some other way increases blood sugar. vets always give it (like i said in my other post: my dog got it for allergies--had nothing to do with insulin or adrenals or any other organ but skin).

Anyway my advice now is:
1.gradually get her off prednisone
2.feed her flaxseed oil mixture
3. feed her raw diet (+carbs, if she needs them)
for #3 i just cooked rice and mixed it with ground beef; Namaste bought grinder and she ground meat with bones
 
Astra2012 last decade
low blood sugar can be tested for in blood glucose tests and i presume the vet did this - I know it's wrong to presume, let's say rather that the vet probably did test for this. Tumours increase production of hormones if they are composed of the cells which do this job normally - i don't know the insulin is being produced more by the tumours, as I said it is just a thought line of mine in trying to understand the vet's treatment re hypoglycaemia. I don't know all ethics in all countries for homeopaths but where i am based i am not allowed to diagnose only treat and only professional (!!!) doctors and vets are allowed to diagnose......i am between a rock and a hardstone and only trying to help??!! adrenals are connected with immune responses, of which skin allergy is one. I am not condoning prednisone but offering suggestions and help. prednisone in homeopathic potency can be used if used alongside prednisone treatment and can also be used to help side effects if withdrawing from prednisone treatment. this is the beauty of homeopathy. allopathic medicines do not always antidote homeopathic remedies and homeopathic remedies can help counteract the side effects of allopathic medicines......
 
erika last decade
Erika- the tumor cells are NOT differentiated - they just keep multiplying without differentiation.
I don't think they produce any insulin-and I completely do not understand the vet's approach (not to mention the vet's scaring tactic).
 
Astra2012 last decade
Dogs are not designed to eat grains. Wolves do not eat grains. Raw meat and raw bones are what they need to sustain a healthy life. Remove the improper diet and you will give the body a chance to heal.

Visit any website relating to BARF (bones and raw food) and you will find recipes. It is the best gift you can give to your four-legged loved ones.

Bless,
NAMASTE
 
Namaste27 last decade
astra - i did not say tumour cells were differentiated. tumours are overgrowth of body cells - what kind of cells depends where the original tumour grows - if original tumour cell is pancreatic no-one really knows what it can do as much about the pancreas has not yet been discovered. i too do not understand the vets approach, which is reason for suggestion of homeopathic vet more experienced in this. I realise you have much experience in this realm and respect that - just trying to help. erika
 
erika last decade
I do not know of a homeopathic vet in my area. I fed her from the raw diet I understand so far this a.m. I gave her a raw beef soup bone ( of which she is so possessive from our other dog I don't think she is eating it but rather burying it, which is her habit) I then fed her raw chicken liver mixed with rice and steamed carrots. I tapered her again from the steroids down from 15mg to 10mg and am waiting to see if she gets disoriented from the blood sugar drop ( if there is one) I also gave her flaxseed oil mixed with cottage cheese. Am I on the right path here until I can figure out how to get some homeopathic steroid? I also am pushing Vit.C. Any advice???The vet did test her glucose, x-rayed and checked her thyroid which was low as well.
 
maggiemae last decade
the homeopathic prednisone remedy won't and can't replace the prednisone it will only help with side effects if you carry on using the prednisone or if you are treating withdrawal symptoms from cutting down on prednisone. What you are doing by cutting down gradually on prednisone and monitoring the effect sounds ok. maybe there is an online homeopathic vet??
 
erika last decade
Thanks for clarifying that. I will try to find out where to get the homeopathic prednisone. I also will look into an online homeopathic vet. Let me know if you have any other advice.
 
maggiemae last decade
Darn-i lost a long post!
This computer is testing my patience.

Anyway: you are doing great-keep up with the raw diet, flaxseed oil and gradually get her off steroids.
I wish the vet told you exactly what is wrong (did she have any symptoms that made you go to the vet?) and why he prescribes drugs.
Saying that pancreatic tumor produces cells secreting insulin (and lowering blood sugar) is like saying that brain tumor means more brain capacity-and nobody wouuuuld say that!

if she gets disoriented-and you suspect low blood sugar, some rice of bread might be enough (and is better than drugs).
:Please keep us updated how she is doing.
 
Astra2012 last decade
thst should be "rice OR bread".

my dog loved raw eggs, another one- raw carrots!
 
Astra2012 last decade
Our reason for originally taking her to the vet was disorientation and sitting in corners of the fence. Acting as if she did not recognize us. He told me the tumors cause her blood sugar to go down and the steroids keep it up. I am feeding her raw meat and rice three times a day with raw beef soup bone every other day as a suppliment. I'm still trying to find the homeopathic steroid. Keep coming with the advice. Thanks!!
 
maggiemae last decade
And he said she acted as if she didn't recognize you because of pancreatic tumors?

it all sounds so weird (though by education I'm a microbiologist -not a vet- but I've had dogs all my life, and some vets do not care about animals-as strange as it sounds -- they just give them drugs believing they did their duty and do not mind if the animal dies. (I have no way of knowing if he is like that-but I'm sure you care more than anyone else).
Watch her closely.And post please.
I personally don't think she will need homeopathic steroid.
Do you have any books on homeopathy? I mean can you read about remedies and match them to her?
Like can you read about phosphorus and see if it fits her (but do not give her anything homeopathic yet)
 
Astra2012 last decade
And he said she acted as if she didn't recognize you because of pancreatic tumors?

it all sounds so weird (though by education I'm a microbiologist -not a vet- but I've had dogs all my life, and some vets do not care about animals-as strange as it sounds -- they just give them drugs believing they did their duty and do not mind if the animal dies. (I have no way of knowing if he is like that-but I'm sure you care more than anyone else).
Watch her closely.And post please.
I personally don't think she will need homeopathic steroid.
Do you have any books on homeopathy? I mean can you read about remedies and match them to her?
Like can you read about phosphorus and see if it fits her (but do not give her anything homeopathic yet)
 
Astra2012 last decade
And this time a double posting for a change!
sorry.
 
Astra2012 last decade
I'm sorry I did not explain what all the test showed. The vet did a glucose type blood test and sent it off. It came back showing levels indicative of multiple tumors. I am not a medical person, my field is Social Work so I am way out of my league. I am currently afraid to decrease her steroid lower that 20mg a day because she is panting now. Due to the steroids? I don't know. He showed chest x-rays to us that had possible small tumors there as well but she is so swollen from the steroids I don't know why she is panting. She really loves the raw diet so I am probably going to keep her with that for a while until I feel better about going further. My heart is just breaking watching her suffer.
 
maggiemae last decade
Hi,

Raw diet should be kept for the rest of your companion's life, if you want to provide her with a strong foundation for health. The best thing you can do for her is provide her with the best quality of life, and not worry about what quantity of time is left. Use your wits and intuition as you are her only advocate. She has no voice and you know her best.

There is no time for fear, she may live another hour, day, week, or year, etc. We don't know if we even have tomorrow. That is life.

Your strength is what will heal her or send her too the afterlife. She looks to please you and when you are upset it weakens her. If you stay strong she will heal or transition peacefully. You are doing a FANTASTIC job, trust yourself and be a guide for her. Let the DIVINE handle the rest.

If you think it is best to wean her off of steroids, do so. Otherwise all they are doing is bandaiding her life and pushing all of the sickness deeper into her body, which could result in serious problems down the road. I will continue to research for you, as it helps me learn. Stick with Astra and know that my words mean well. I know this is all foregin and scary for you, as it is for anyone who has a loved one's life on the line. Stay strong, you are very courageous and send your dog love, love, and more love. Envision her healthy and see her back to being a puppy. Give her the best quality of life you can, every day.


BLESS,
NAMASTE
 
Namaste27 last decade
P.S., Please no more vaccinations for your pooch if you have done so. They are known to cause cancer and thyroid problems.

A bit of encouragement for you. My sister's ferret had problems with an enlarged spleen that caused it to have an enormous, swollen belly. My sister panicked,ferret went on steroids, swelled up even more and my sister was in a sheer panic, scheduling more drugs and surgery with her vet. A lady who raises ferrets that she met at the vet, told her that my sister's ferret was a senior and to give her the best quality of life she had left.

That conversation is what prompted my sister to not run to the vet for meds or drastic surgery any longer. She released her fear and decided that whether her ferret had an hour or a day or a month left, she was going to give her the best life possible. Miraculously today, 3 months later, her ferret is running around her cage, like a juvenile, her belly is no longer swollen, and my sister calls it a miracle. She belives that giving her ferret high quality food, being in the moment,lots of love and play time and encouragement is helping her ride out the rest of her life, in peace, not suffering from meds or healing from surgery.

We always worry, what if, what if, what if I had done this or that? As long as your intentions are pure, you will never go wrong.

I had a cat I adopted who was being kept alive by thyroid medication for hyerthyroidism. She was hanging on by a thread, for the medicine was keeping her on earth. She weighed nothing, her fur was grease, and she had no energy for living. She was so far gone that nothing natural had any impact on her. Every day I gave her the medicine wondering if I was keeping her alive for me or for her as she laid in my closet and looked like a suffering skeleton. One day, I gave her no medicine. That day, I noticed she had more energy as she purred and walked over to be with me. So I did the same thing, the next day and the day after that. For four days, she was like a happy kitten and I thought it was a miracle.

After four days of being free of meds, she laid down one night for bed time. Unbeknownst to me she stayed awake all night, long enough for me to find her clinging to life in the early am, just so she could say goodbye and then she passed in my arms. She was saying, thank you. Some would say, I could have, should have, it was my fault. I let nature take its course and decided that I was not going to let any drug prolong her suffering.

I could have kept her alive for months and months and she would have been at the mercy of her meds. I would do what I did all over again, just to have those 4 days of her being the happiest and free I ever saw her. It was one of the greatest lessons I ever learned, no matter how painful it was to know she has passed, I know I did the right thing.

BLESSINGS,
NAMASTE
 
Namaste27 last decade
sad that my words keep getting misunderstood and twisted re tumours - I will not continue to explain but I did not say the extra cancer cells 'produce' insulin directly as implied.... I get the message and will back off. My thoughts are with your and your dear dog and I know you are in good hands with Astra and Namastes advice. Take care, erika
 
erika last decade

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