The ABC Homeopathy Forum
200cc thuja problems
Took 200 cc thuja about one month ago I got insomnia, headaches and movement problems in my left hip. I also get a slight stomach reaction now from time to time. I wrote to this forum about three weeks ago and the advice was to let the aggravation continue. The insomnia is better but I still have trouble sleeping.The advisor said that all of the symptoms were from past conditions. At one time I have had some of these symptoms but not to the extent of the current condition. I had a hernia operation about 6 weeks before taking the thuja. The recovery is in the normal range and I took the thuja to cleanse and balance. I might have misunderstood the homeopath that made the suggestion in terms of the strength of the remedy. I am suffering and have had to cancel a planned trip. I am in excellent physical shape and am very active for a male in his mid 60s. I have had success taking homeopathic remedies from time to time but never had an aggravation last this long or this intense. Any suggestions?
nalanomis on 2014-05-14
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
fitness 9 years ago
Fitness means you already have a thread open where I was helping you, so it would best to continue there.
It is possible the remedy was not the best one for you. A proper reassessment needs to be done - are you still in contact with the homoeopath who prescribed for you?
It is possible the remedy was not the best one for you. A proper reassessment needs to be done - are you still in contact with the homoeopath who prescribed for you?
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
I am not in contact as she has moved. I am afraid to take anything at this point given the reaction to the thuja. I have discussed this with another homeopath and she said that the text says that some aggravations can last 60 days, especially this one.
nalanomis 9 years ago
No that is incorrect. Aggravation should not last that long. Long aggravations are a sign that something is wrong - either with the prescription, the dosage or the patient themselves.
Our texts quite clearly state that a long aggravation is an issue that needs to be addressed, not endured.
Our texts quite clearly state that a long aggravation is an issue that needs to be addressed, not endured.
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
Google 'aggravation zapper' and read the article by Elaine Lewis.
I have had several people try this when they were told to take a remedy and the aggravation was too intense and it worked
out very well.
[message edited by simone717 on Thu, 15 May 2014 03:39:05 BST]
I have had several people try this when they were told to take a remedy and the aggravation was too intense and it worked
out very well.
[message edited by simone717 on Thu, 15 May 2014 03:39:05 BST]
♡ simone717 9 years ago
Do not assume that you need to antidote. What needs to be done is the case needs to be assessed properly to see what has happened. If the remedy has moved your case along in a particular way, it is important that the progress is either continued or moved in the correct direction, rather than just trying to undo what has been done. Homoeopathy must be done intelligently, and even the reaction to a remedy tells us where to go and what to do next.
[message edited by Evocationer on Thu, 15 May 2014 07:27:25 BST]
[message edited by Evocationer on Thu, 15 May 2014 07:27:25 BST]
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
Doing aggravation zapper does not antidote the remedy- it just
lessens the aggravation so that the reactions are not that intense.
It says that in the article, and the same thing went on with people I had
do this. The remedy was still working on them and moving them forward
for weeks after they did the aggravation zapper.
Bottom line- The 'aggravation zapper' is really just one more dose of the same remedy,
same potency. The only difference is there is more water.
[message edited by simone717 on Thu, 15 May 2014 15:14:19 BST]
lessens the aggravation so that the reactions are not that intense.
It says that in the article, and the same thing went on with people I had
do this. The remedy was still working on them and moving them forward
for weeks after they did the aggravation zapper.
Bottom line- The 'aggravation zapper' is really just one more dose of the same remedy,
same potency. The only difference is there is more water.
[message edited by simone717 on Thu, 15 May 2014 15:14:19 BST]
♡ simone717 9 years ago
Calling it an Aggravation Zapper is deceptive. It is simply repetition of the dose. There are guidelines for when to redose and when not to redose. The case should always be assessed before repeating the remedy. Repeating might create further aggravation, it might create a proving, or it might antidote. Antidoting may reverse any curative action as well, leaving both practitioner and patient confused about what happened and what to do next.
If the worsening of the patient's symptoms is actually coming from palliation or suppression by the remedy, then repeating will only reinforce this and cause further harm to the patient.
It may be that repeating a dose will be good for a patient, but it may also be bad for them. Homoeopathy needs to be practiced intelligently - not reduced to these kind of rote procedures. Ms. Lewis and I have disagreed over the use of this procedure in the past, and I have seen many people on various forums (as well as patients in clinic since this is an old idea used by many other homoeopaths) who have not responded well to 'zapping'.
There are rules for antidoting in the Organon of Medicine - they should be followed. Kent's 12 Observations are also very useful for determining what to do when a patient does not have the ideal reaction. Redosing automatically as a knee-jerk reaction is not in the patient's best interest. We need to look at the bigger picture always when managing our patients.
If the worsening of the patient's symptoms is actually coming from palliation or suppression by the remedy, then repeating will only reinforce this and cause further harm to the patient.
It may be that repeating a dose will be good for a patient, but it may also be bad for them. Homoeopathy needs to be practiced intelligently - not reduced to these kind of rote procedures. Ms. Lewis and I have disagreed over the use of this procedure in the past, and I have seen many people on various forums (as well as patients in clinic since this is an old idea used by many other homoeopaths) who have not responded well to 'zapping'.
There are rules for antidoting in the Organon of Medicine - they should be followed. Kent's 12 Observations are also very useful for determining what to do when a patient does not have the ideal reaction. Redosing automatically as a knee-jerk reaction is not in the patient's best interest. We need to look at the bigger picture always when managing our patients.
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
I do see your point here and I guess you have to agree to just disagree with
Elaine Lewis and Diane Fuller and others who promote this.
In the people I talked to, they were prescribed the right remedy and should
have had it in water or a plussed dose in the first place.
Elaine Lewis and Diane Fuller and others who promote this.
In the people I talked to, they were prescribed the right remedy and should
have had it in water or a plussed dose in the first place.
♡ simone717 9 years ago
Well Hahnemann and Kent also disagree with them, and I know who I trust more. I have discussed this method with Elaine and others, and they have no philosophy behind it. Since it conflicts with our normal guidelines I do not agree with its use except when it is indicated through assessment of the case.
When I say homoeopathy must be practiced intelligently, I mean thought needs to be put into everything we do. If we want to do something that conflicts directly with the philosophy, then it needs to be considered very carefully. Rote prescribing is risky, and generally creates far more problems than it solves.
When I say homoeopathy must be practiced intelligently, I mean thought needs to be put into everything we do. If we want to do something that conflicts directly with the philosophy, then it needs to be considered very carefully. Rote prescribing is risky, and generally creates far more problems than it solves.
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
OK....but this philosophical argument does little to help me.
It is clear that the remedy caused insomnia and many muscle tightness issues as well as a headache. They all came within 24 hours of the remedy. I am now in Physical Therapy for all of the muscle issues. ....hip flexor, back tightness etc....I did not have these issues before I took the remedy. I took the wrong dose. I am hopeful that these will resolve with therapy and in time as the remedy effect loosens. I have also began acupuncture with a trained Chinese doctor and this is having some small results. I took thuja once before with no effect. The insomnia is improving and headache is slightly improved. I have a lot of pain in the hip flexor. This is keeping me up at night now and the insomnia is passing.My constitutional remedy has been arsenicum. Thank you for reading and responding to me. I am frustrated because my health has been terrific until this time. People are surprised by this recent setback. Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble. This is my first negative experience with homeopathy.
It is clear that the remedy caused insomnia and many muscle tightness issues as well as a headache. They all came within 24 hours of the remedy. I am now in Physical Therapy for all of the muscle issues. ....hip flexor, back tightness etc....I did not have these issues before I took the remedy. I took the wrong dose. I am hopeful that these will resolve with therapy and in time as the remedy effect loosens. I have also began acupuncture with a trained Chinese doctor and this is having some small results. I took thuja once before with no effect. The insomnia is improving and headache is slightly improved. I have a lot of pain in the hip flexor. This is keeping me up at night now and the insomnia is passing.My constitutional remedy has been arsenicum. Thank you for reading and responding to me. I am frustrated because my health has been terrific until this time. People are surprised by this recent setback. Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble. This is my first negative experience with homeopathy.
nalanomis 9 years ago
If I were you I would try to antidote this. That is my opinion.
You could try an authentic shiatsu massage- I have suggested that
to 3 people who were given 1M nat mur, by different prescribers and
were desperate after 3 weeks of feeling they could not get into their
body and they could not work or function. By the end of the massage
they were back to normal.
Shiatsu is done while clothes on, and they work the spine- it is a huge detox
and fantastic for back problems. You are tired for 24 hours after, and
it kicks in even more after the first 24 hours.
Or, you could try Dr. Showrav's method to antidote-Take Camphor Q 5 drops with a tea spoon of Sugar 3 times a day for 3 days before 30 min from meal. It the the medicine which can neutralize 90% homeopathic medicines effects immediately.
Dr. Showrav
[message edited by simone717 on Fri, 16 May 2014 03:05:10 BST]
You could try an authentic shiatsu massage- I have suggested that
to 3 people who were given 1M nat mur, by different prescribers and
were desperate after 3 weeks of feeling they could not get into their
body and they could not work or function. By the end of the massage
they were back to normal.
Shiatsu is done while clothes on, and they work the spine- it is a huge detox
and fantastic for back problems. You are tired for 24 hours after, and
it kicks in even more after the first 24 hours.
Or, you could try Dr. Showrav's method to antidote-Take Camphor Q 5 drops with a tea spoon of Sugar 3 times a day for 3 days before 30 min from meal. It the the medicine which can neutralize 90% homeopathic medicines effects immediately.
Dr. Showrav
[message edited by simone717 on Fri, 16 May 2014 03:05:10 BST]
♡ simone717 9 years ago
nalanomis 9 years ago
I have several relatives with severe back problems- Authentic shiatsu
has worked the best for them after doing, acupuncture, chiro,rolfing. phys. therapy,
and you name it, they tried it out. The problem is finding someone
who is really trained in this, not just part of massage school techniques.
Regards,
Simone717
has worked the best for them after doing, acupuncture, chiro,rolfing. phys. therapy,
and you name it, they tried it out. The problem is finding someone
who is really trained in this, not just part of massage school techniques.
Regards,
Simone717
♡ simone717 9 years ago
Interesting discussion regarding aggravation zapper. I have been told that it works but I have not read about it anywhere in the classical literature. Then again my reading is limited and classical literature is not divine word.
Evocationer, which 12 Kent observations are you referring to.
In my experience sometimes its extremely difficult if not impossible to antidote a very well selected, deep acting remedy. I have seen it first hand, experienced classical homeopaths struggling with some aggravations gone out of control when no amount of antidoting works and only allopathic (material doses) intervention helps.
Evocationer, which 12 Kent observations are you referring to.
In my experience sometimes its extremely difficult if not impossible to antidote a very well selected, deep acting remedy. I have seen it first hand, experienced classical homeopaths struggling with some aggravations gone out of control when no amount of antidoting works and only allopathic (material doses) intervention helps.
fitness 9 years ago
The philosophy is what will make the difference between you being cured and you going around in circles not knowing what is happening or how to deal with it. The philosophy is what makes the difference between a good and a bad homoeopath, so while I don't expect every patient to need (or even want) to understand it, without it being applied properly things will become hopelessly confused.
Also, just as a gentle reminder, this is not a clinic. This is a discussion board. Simone and I often have some debate around philosophy, which I find quite interesting and it is healthy for both of us as practitioners.
Many times people make the assumption they are aggravating when they are not. It needs to be determined what the reaction is before a treatment plan is developed. This is just common sense.
Aggravation is worsening of the symptoms as part of the artificial disease state produced in the SHORT TERM by the remedy. A true aggravation is very short - a few hours, days or possibly in very sensitive people weeks (rare).
A Healing Crisis is the response of the vital force to the Aggravation. A healing crisis is often what people call an aggravation, but it is different and that difference is important in terms of management.
A healing crisis needs to be managed properly if you are going to see progress towards cure. Just as any crisis in the person's health or life does. If the remedy has been a good one, then the crisis will resolve and you will move forward. If you get stuck in the crisis then the case needs to be retaken so that the next step can be done intelligently and carefully.
Some patients require alternation of remedies. Some patients require a sequence of different remedies. Some patients require new potencies. Some patients simply require reassurance and support. One cannot assume that every patient just needs to 'antidote'. This is an attitude that comes out of orthodox medicine, where every uncomfortable symptoms is swept under the rug (suppressed into a deeper part of the organism).
Homoeopathy on the other hand attempts to understand the purpose and place of each symptom, and tries to show the attempt of the vital force to rebalance things respect. When we jump in trying to control everything that happens (as orthodox doctors do) mistakes are made.
Fitness, the 12 observations of Kent are in relation to Second Prescription. They are very reliable guidelines for determining what exactly the response to the remedy means, and how best to deal with it. I have found them quite useful over the years when I have been confused by the patient's reactions.
I agree that antidoting a deep acting remedy is difficult, if not impossible. Once the remedy has caused the vital force to respond (Secondary reaction) you cannot antidote anymore - a fact some homoeopaths either never learned or conveniently forget. All you can do at that point is change the direction of the vital force once again by creating a new artificial disease - and if the remedy was well selected this can only harm the patient not help them.
Also, just as a gentle reminder, this is not a clinic. This is a discussion board. Simone and I often have some debate around philosophy, which I find quite interesting and it is healthy for both of us as practitioners.
Many times people make the assumption they are aggravating when they are not. It needs to be determined what the reaction is before a treatment plan is developed. This is just common sense.
Aggravation is worsening of the symptoms as part of the artificial disease state produced in the SHORT TERM by the remedy. A true aggravation is very short - a few hours, days or possibly in very sensitive people weeks (rare).
A Healing Crisis is the response of the vital force to the Aggravation. A healing crisis is often what people call an aggravation, but it is different and that difference is important in terms of management.
A healing crisis needs to be managed properly if you are going to see progress towards cure. Just as any crisis in the person's health or life does. If the remedy has been a good one, then the crisis will resolve and you will move forward. If you get stuck in the crisis then the case needs to be retaken so that the next step can be done intelligently and carefully.
Some patients require alternation of remedies. Some patients require a sequence of different remedies. Some patients require new potencies. Some patients simply require reassurance and support. One cannot assume that every patient just needs to 'antidote'. This is an attitude that comes out of orthodox medicine, where every uncomfortable symptoms is swept under the rug (suppressed into a deeper part of the organism).
Homoeopathy on the other hand attempts to understand the purpose and place of each symptom, and tries to show the attempt of the vital force to rebalance things respect. When we jump in trying to control everything that happens (as orthodox doctors do) mistakes are made.
Fitness, the 12 observations of Kent are in relation to Second Prescription. They are very reliable guidelines for determining what exactly the response to the remedy means, and how best to deal with it. I have found them quite useful over the years when I have been confused by the patient's reactions.
I agree that antidoting a deep acting remedy is difficult, if not impossible. Once the remedy has caused the vital force to respond (Secondary reaction) you cannot antidote anymore - a fact some homoeopaths either never learned or conveniently forget. All you can do at that point is change the direction of the vital force once again by creating a new artificial disease - and if the remedy was well selected this can only harm the patient not help them.
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
fitness 9 years ago
Ah sorry, my apologies.
Kent discusses his observations in his Lectures on Homoeopathic Philosophy, lectures 35 and 36.
http://homeoint.org/books3/kentlect/index.htm
Kent discusses his observations in his Lectures on Homoeopathic Philosophy, lectures 35 and 36.
http://homeoint.org/books3/kentlect/index.htm
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
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