how to determine strongest symptoms

Sunny-
prior post is not deleted-
just look down further on the forum
middle. Leave that one open-Evocationer will probably answer it.

Anytime you want to see your posts
just click on your name- everything that
you posted will show up there.

The only person that can delete your posts is the owner/moderator and he
only does that when people break
the rules-being rude, trying to sell
things, asking people to email you.
[message edited by simone717 on Tue, 08 Jul 2014 21:01:18 BST]

Ah yes, I love these questions :) Homoeopathic philosophy has always been a special interest for me.

You are referring to symptoms known as KEYNOTES. The concept of a Keynote actually causes students a lot of trouble, and that trouble (if not tackled by teachers who know themselves what to do with keynotes) can infect their practice for years.

The problem that often occurs is that students are distracted by the symptoms which are highlighted, and will consider that remedy in preference to any other, perhaps without considering any other. If you see the rubrics in the repertory, these symptoms are in BOLD or in CAPITALS and this immediately tends to draw the attention away from other remedies. This is an incorrect use of keynotes.

Another problem is that students often feel that to prescribe that remedy, those highlighted symptoms should be present in every case that needs the remedy. This is also an incorrect use of keynotes. A remedy can be prescribed for any patient where ANY symptom known for that remedy appears, not just when PARTICULAR symptoms appear. You will see many unusual examples of remedy pictures in some patients, who won't display any of the keynotes in any prominent way.

So what is a highlighted symptom representing then, and how do we use them?

In some ways, the highlighting of symptoms works against us finding the simillimum. Keynotes only represent FREQUENCY of appearance of those symptoms in a proving or in clinic, in patients who have taken the remedy (in a proving/experiment) or who have been cured by the remedy.

So keynotes represent a kind of statistic. For example, many patients who need GELSEMIUM will display AILMENTS FROM ANTICIPATION, and this has been noted so frequently in practice that it is considered a keynote. However there are over 120 other remedies known for this symptom as well, so while in any Gelsemium case you might see this very often, in any patient the chance of them being Gelsemium is not related to this keynote.

Keynotes are misused, sometimes unintentionally, sometimes out of laziness. People may use just a few remedies for a particular problem, because of they are shown as keynote remedies for it. This may result in the remedy not working, in the remedy only palliating, or worst of all the remedy suppressing the symptom (because it has a very specific relationship with that symptom but not the rest of the case) and causing an even worse state to come into being.

The best use of Keynotes comes in Acute diseases, where the similarity doesn't need to be too deep, because there is no underlying chronic cause of the problem. This category includes emergency prescribing. Often speed is required here, and there may be little opportunity to take a detailed case. In genuine acute complaints (not chronic complaints that are showing an acute flare up) people tend to show similar symptoms, and respond to certain remedies. The real complexity and peculiarity tends to come out in chronic complaints, and this generally requires a more careful analysis of each individual case.

The other value of keynotes is to help confirm or justify a choice we are making. If there are many keynotes, or a variety of other symptoms all pointing to the remedy, then it gives confidence in making the prescription.

Just as a further note regarding these symptoms, since Keynotes are often uncovered through the accumulated use and experience of the remedy in clinic, many new or 'small' remedies will not show with many keynote symptoms, or perhaps any at all. This can encourage practitioners to ignore such remedies completely. This is a lesson I learned early in practice, to actually use keynotes in the opposite way - to pay closer attention to the remedies NOT listed as keynotes.

Your patient may require a remedy which has not been used much in the past for the complaint, and if you only use as your guide the list of remedies other homoeopaths have used before you, that patient will go uncured.

I would assume these are keynotes as well - let me have a look at a few of the descriptions to see if this is the case.

Alright I had a look at Lachesis as an example, as this is a very well known remedy and easily researched in my repertory and materia medicas.

From what I can see, the highlighted symptoms just represent something interesting about the remedy, most likely from the perspective of whomever collated the information. There is no particular pattern to what was selected.

In those highlighted symptoms of Lachesis, I saw:

1. a Single Symptom (Delusion, fire, night - lachesis the only known remedy currently)

2. a symptom with a few remedies in it all of equal value (Euthanasia)

3. a Keynote (Jealousy)

4. another small rubric where a different remedy is actually the Keynote remedy (Mental labor best performed at night - Coffea is the main remedy)

5. a larger rubric where two other remedies are the keynote remedies (Amativeness 0- main remedies are Canth and Lyc)

6. a huge common rubric in which Lach is not particularly important at all (Vertigo)

So honestly I don't think those highlighted symptoms are necessarily going to help you too much. All together, if you take them out and look at them, they can form a sort of overall picture of the remedy. But any patient you see may look quite different, and have none of those symptoms.

Firstly, do not take anything while you are under the action of another remedy, ESPECIALLY if there has been the kind of remarkable result you are reporting.

CM potencies should last months, or even years. You must not act impatiently and begin ruining your case, by chopping and changing remedies. If you are self-prescribing, you will need to learn to watch and wait for long periods without represcribing, just as a homoeopath would do. Our medicines instigate cascade effects that can go on for long periods and must not be interrupted.

If the remedy is not curing across all levels of your case (mental, emotional, general, physical, pathological, historical) then the WRONG remedy is being used and trying to patch that up with more remedies to cover the symptoms not being changed is a HUGE mistake. This can make you incurable.

In terms of those symptoms I discussed for Lachesis, you have it around the wrong way. Some of those white-background symptoms are *extremely* important in understand the bigger picture of Lachesis. However, they are not consistently important symptoms being highlighted with this colour, so for you as a lay-person they will not be helpful. Some of those symptoms are Single Symptoms - the most important kind of symptom you will ever find in a case.

Many common symptoms are highlighted green - almost useless for differentiating remedies from each other, and often not worth using at all for selecting a remedy.

I will make another post discussing the symptoms you have used.
[message edited by Evocationer on Fri, 11 Jul 2014 02:10:13 BST]

Sunny,

You need to do some reading on homeopathy basics.

You can go to the site of Mary Aspinwall, and on the right
under free stuff, you can download her beginning book
on homeopathy. You can also Google Dr. Luc and read his lessons on homeopathy.

1. The Remedy Finder grid you have here from this site works
only on Acute illness. You cannot use it well for anything
chronic.

2. On Acute illness, which is a sudden onset of something,
You match the remedy to the acute symptoms. Simple
example, getting stung by a bee, and there is swelling and
redness and feels worse from heat, better from cold- you
could try Apis the bee remedy on that. A few doses would
clear it. Or coming down with a flu like symptoms after being
out in a cold wind, you could try a few doses of Aconite, as
that remedy has those symptoms preceded by being out in a cold
wind.

3.On chronic illness, you match the remedy to the totality.
Mental, physical, emotional, what makes it better, what
makes it worse, etc. A close match- on all these things,
I am being general here, then is LIKE your illness. The body
will not allow two Similars. Your illness and the remedy
artificial illness. The life force is then activated to clear
the remedy and the illness.

4. The remedy is the catalyst and then you have to look
for how is this cure happening? There can be palliation,
there can be suppression-most of the time when correct there is
an aggravation of old things coming up, then you start
to feel mentally better,then past things start to show
up with the last things showing up first, staying there
for some hours or days and then leaving. This is what
you are looking for.

5. It is hard to be neutral enough to match your symptoms
by yourself on chronic cases. Homeopaths go to other
homeopaths. If you start reading the materia medica
-I guarantee you will start to see many things in tons
of remedies that seem to match you.

6.It is not 'about' the strongest symptoms. If you have a strange and peculiar symptom
that is only in one remedy, then you know you have found the right remedy. Otherwise,
lets say, you had two people with a strong, throbbing headache, and they both had
constant vision problems of seeing black dots, and they both had lower back pain-

These are the strongest symptoms. This is not going to do any good- one person
could be an introvert the other an extrovert, one person is always thirsty and wants
cold drinks, the other is never thirsty, one person has regular bowel movements,
the other is often constipated, - these are all some of the things you need to match
no matter what the strongest symptoms.

Once you take the remedy, you look for how is the cure happening. Read 'Herrings Law of Cure'
If you have the remedy totally correct, everything will cure in time. If it is only a partial match,
some of it will cure, and after time you get the next remedy.

You don't pick remedies based on the strongest symptom-you learn how to take a case and match
the totality.
[message edited by simone717 on Fri, 11 Jul 2014 02:56:39 BST]

There are a number of problems with the rubrics you have chosen.

Firstly, some of these rubrics are very common, undifferentiated symptoms that do not lead towards the right remedy.

Eye, pain
Eye, pain, right
Eye, pain, corner
Face, lips, chapped
Face, lips, dryness
Face, lips, peeling
Rectum, haemorrhoids
Rectum, haemorrhoids, internal
Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin
Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, penis
Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, itching
Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, penis, foreskin
Chest, skin, itching

So those should all be removed straight away.

Second major problem, is that you have unnaturally weighted the case with symptoms that are too similar to each other ((so will have more or less the same remedies in it). The one that is most appropriate should be chosen based on how precise it is to the situation, OR the two rubrics should be combined so that all the remedies in them are only counted once. Do not count remedies multiple times for symptoms that are more or less the same!:

Eye pain, morning, on opening = Eye pain, on opening lids

Eye, pain, morning = Eye pain morning after rising

Eye pain better pressure = Eye pain better rubbing

Eye, intolerance of light = Eye, intolerance of light, daylight

Face, lips, cracked = Face, lips, cracked lower lip = Face, lips, cracked lower lip, middle of

Face, lips, peeling = Face lips chapped

Rectum, haemorrhage from anus = Rectum, haemorrhage from anus, during stool

Rectum, haemorrhoids = Rectum, haemorrhoids, internal

Stool, like balls = Stool, like balls, brown = Stool, like balls, light coloured

Stool, hard = Stool, hard, first hard then soft

Stool, knotty = Stool, knotty, first then soft

Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin = Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, herpetic

Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin = Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, itching

Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin = Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, pimples

Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin = Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, red

Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, penis = Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, penis, redness from inflammation

Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, red = Genitals, male, outbreaks on skin, penis, redness from inflammation

Chest, skin, itching = Chest skin itching, worse scratching = Chest skin itching, better scratching

Lastly, there are no generals in this case, and you should never just focus on the local parts of the body and try to determine a chronic remedy that way. This will almost always result in failure (at best) and suppression into a more serious disease (at worst).

Evocationer.

I think you are explaining how to
construct a home, when someone
needs to know how to use tools
and pour the foundation.

Sunny,

Homeopathy is 'like cures Like'

You can easily google what homeopathy is and how it works and study up to know
the very basic information.The principle of treating “like with like” dates back to Hippocrates (460-377BC) but in its current form, homeopathy has been widely used worldwide for more than 200 years.

It was discovered by a German doctor, Samuel Hahnemann, who, shocked with the harsh medical practises of the day (which included blood-letting, purging and the use of poisons such as arsenic), looked for a way to reduce the damaging side-effects associated with medical treatment.

He began experimenting on himself and a group of healthy volunteers, giving smaller and smaller medicinal doses, and found that as well as reducing toxicity, the medicines actually appeared to be more effective the lower the dose. He also observed that symptoms caused by toxic ‘medicines’ such as mercury, were similar to those of the diseases they were being used to treat e.g. syphilis, which lead to the principle he described as ‘like cures like’.

Hahnemann went on to document his work, and his texts formed the foundations of homeopathic medicine as it is practised today. A BBC Radio 4 documentary aired in December 2010 described Hahnemann as a medical pioneer who worked tirelessly to improve medical practice, insisting that medicines were tested before use.

References
1) Endler PC, Heckmann C, Lauppert E, et al. The metamorphosis of amphibians and information of thyroxine. In: Schulte J, Endler PC (eds). Fundamental Research in Ultra High Dilution and Homoeopathy. Dordrecht: Kluwer Academic Publishers, 1998

2) Montagnier L et al. Electromagnetic signals are produced by aqueous nanostructures derived from bacterial DNA sequences. Interdiscip Sci Comput Life Sci, 2009; 1: 81-90

How Homeopathic Medicines Work

Homeopathic medicines act by substituting a temporary drug condition for the natural illness. Your body's defense mechanism reacts to the medicine by mobilizing its forces to expel it, and, simultaneously, expels the natural illness that was occurring. This is the curative effect of homeopathy: your body mobilizes its own defense mechanisms to eliminate the disease. The medicines are specifically prepared by pharmacists using natural substances, mostly plants and minerals. These substances are prepared by a process of serial dilution and mixing which renders them capable of stimulating the healing process. They have no known side effects.

'But if the remedies are not antidotel to each other then is it not possible to combine different remedies??

I am curious to understand this term 'the life force will not allow two similars'. Who and how someone postulated this theory and proved it?'

These two questions are obviously related so I will approach them the same way.

Firstly, it was Hahnemann who directly observed that the vital force cannot be in two separate states (equivalent to remedies) at the same time. This was clearly observed during provings and in clinical practice. If a second remedy is given, it is either repelled by the first (and so has no effect) or it overwrites the first (thus cancelling it out). This observation has been born out repeatedly over the years.

Our medicines do not have physiological actions. There are entirely dynamic, affecting only the dynamic body of the patient (the vital energy). The vital energy responds to the influence of a potentized medicine in entirety - that is by changing the whole of its shape/vibration/frequency to match it. You do not take Belladonna in potency and then get a Belladonna foot - your vital force changes into Belladonna, and then any symptoms in the foot change to reflect the change in the vital force.

So the same applies when we see a patient with multiple problems in various locations. The do not have a Belladonna headache, a Bryonia indigestion, and Sulphur psoriasis. They have one vital force, which controls all of these apparently separate conditions, and whatever state it is in, will be the state the condition is in (need the same remedy).

If you do not cure the imbalance in the vital force, it will continue to make new diseases in new locations, and the evolution of the imbalance means they get worse and worse. If you give a remedy based on 'local' similarity (just the symptoms of one location) you in fact block that outlet for the pressure of the internal disease, and it is forced to reposition in a new location, often a more serious place for symptoms to appear.

One of the most important principles in homoeopathy is the Law of the Single Remedy. Not obeying that creates so many problems in managing and curing cases.

In terms of what you are reporting in response to your remedy, one of my concerns would be that there appeared to be no aggravation prior to the improvement. That is not usually a very good sign - palliation and suppression usually take place without any aggravation of symptoms.

It is hard to know at this point what has happened. Only time will tell. If the symptoms return exactly as before in a short period (days or weeks), or if they return worse than before, or if new symptoms begin to appear, then we are probably looking at either Palliation or Suppression.

He should not trying to build a home then lol. I am trying to show him how difficult prescribing is, and how many mistakes he is making. It is a point I am trying to make - how complicated practicing homoeopathy is. I wasn't really trying to show how to fix the prescribing :)
[message edited by Evocationer on Fri, 11 Jul 2014 04:01:50 BST]

Yes you have created a proving of Nat-mur by taking such a powerful potency. It has overwhelmed your own vital energy and forced it to start producing Nat-mur symptoms. It is difficult to know at this stage if the changes are now going to be permanent or not. If you are lucky they will not, but I have seen such changes remain for years in some self-prescribers (or people under the care of pseudo-homoeopaths).

The Vital Energy is intelligent, in a manner of speaking, but it is you. It is all of you - your instincts, feelings, functions, memories, physiology - everything. We see it as manifesting through the PNEI axis, the control system of the body (Psyche Neural Endocrine Immune) but it exists underneath these systems. It is the thing that exists within all matter but exists prior to it.

Here is an article on PNEI and vital force.

James Tyler Kent, a turn-of-the-century philosopher and homeopath agreed with Hahnemann’s theory of how remedies worked. However, as a Swedenborgian ('All religion relates to life, and the life of religion is to do good.'[21] ), Kent’s view of the vital force was far more religious . He believed that god’s essence flowed through all things, living and otherwise. Potentizing remedies reduced matter to what he referred to as their ‘simple substance’[Kent]. The simple substance, “endowed with formative intelligence” is the essence of the matter from which it came [Kent]. It “dominates and controls the body it occupies” and is the agent through which god works. [Kent].

Like Hahnemann, Kent believed that the simple substance, as a correctly selected remedy, stimulated the vital force. This stimulation would cause the vital force to re-align itself. As the vital force no longer needed to manifest symptoms of dis-ease, the curative results would be felt on the physical level as well.

Rajan Sankaran, a prominent Indian homeopath, further explored the manifestation of disease by introducing the idea of the central disturbance, as actualised on a P-N-E-I axis. Sankaran theorises that any change in the psyche (P) will be associated with changes in the neuro (N), endocrine (E) and immunology (I) systems (P-N-E-I) as well [Sankaran, p46]. He believes that these systems are all connected to themselves as well as the vital force. Disturbance of the vital force will lead to manifestations of symptoms, based on susceptibility, which will be mirrored on all systems. These mirrored symptoms represent a ‘central disturbance’. The remedy whose energy best matches the central disturbance of the entity, will be the remedy that re-aligns the P-N-E-I axis. This axis, although representative of the physical systems, is actually an energy grid, which allows the flow of energy between each of the systems. It is kept in homeostasis by the vital force. However, recent studies in Italy suggests there may be a physical (hormonal) manifestation of the P-N-E-I (or sometimes called PNI) [22].

So, the remedy is not substance, rather energy, which is selected to match the energy of the vital force? So what kind of energy are we talking about?

‘Their properties can only be understood in terms of their interaction with the rest of the world’.
Fritjof Capra, the Tao of Physics

George Vithoulkas, a Greek homeopath and lecturer, has looked at Kent’s view of the intelligent simple substance and taken it further by describing the vital force in terms of vibrations.

vi·bra·tion
A characteristic emanation, aura, or spirit that infuses or vitalises someone or something and that can be instinctively sensed or experienced -- often used in plural
Mirriam-Webster OnLine

The body produces an electro-dynamic field, which can be measured using, extremely sensitive high-resistance detection electrodes. It can be photographed using the Kirlian method. Vithoulkas believes that this measurable field emanates from the vital force. Using this same language, he theorises that potentization reduces a substance to it’s basic wave form. Succussion amplifies the wave. Like with music, the remedy iThe human electromagnetic field is not a new concept. However, until recently, its presence was considered meaningless [3].

Staying with the vibrational theory, Richard Gerber, author of “Vibrational Medicine for the 21st Century”, writes about the human vibrational field and resonant energy transfer. Gerber believes that the vibrational field is a result of the heartbeat, combined with vibrations found at the atomic level in the body. He reports that the body’s cells, which emit weak pulses of light, works on a “light-based communication system” [Gerber, p 11]. This, he believes, forms the basis of a complex energy-control system, which regulates and maintains health. The combined vibrations (light, heartbeat, atomic energy) produce a predominant resonant frequency of energy. The body absorbs energy in its resonant frequency. Maximum energy transfer happens when the remedy’s resonant frequency matches that of the body’s.

Jacques Benveniste, a French biologist, was studying the affects of antibodies on granulated basophils. Granulated basophils have granules, which can be dyed, and therefore, measured. His study involved measuring the degranulation of the basophils, after exposure to the antibodies. During the course of his study, he came across the work of Samuel Hahnemann. He decided to experiment with diluting and succussing the antibodies to see if there still would be a reaction. He potentized the antibodies to a 30c solution [15] and found that the solution acted as if molecules were still present.

Benveniste published his findings in the magazine ‘Nature’ (1987) which received a very hostile reaction. As his findings were so unexpected, Nature insisted on seeing the tests done in person. However, having prejudged Benveniste as a fraud [14], Nature arranged for Sir John Maddow (editor, Nature), a physicist who specialised in fraud busting and a magician to observe Benveniste’s experiment. As the observers were far from objective [2], he was famously discounted and reprimanded. Leading immunologists came to Benveniste’s aid, stating that recreating his previous results under those circumstances was unlikely [15]. Unfortunately, the damage was done. Not only was his study discredited, but he also lost his funding.

The biased treatment that Benveniste received was enough to deter many other laboratories from trying to recreate his findings. However, recently, a consortium of four independent laboratories chose to attempt just such a thing. Scientists in France, Italy, Belgium and Holland independently recreated the trials. Three of the laboratories had positive (statistically significant) results. Results from the fourth laboratory, however, were inconclusive (almost statistically significant) [1].

Following on from his original results, Benveniste has since formed his own company, Digibio. As with Conte, Gerber, et al, Benveniste believes that molecules emit frequencies that can be recognised and measured [16]. Digibio is currently working with machinery that allows transmission of information between two bio-molecules.

Recently, a lab in South Korea reported a phenomenon previously thought to be impossible. Two chemists, Kurt Geckeler and Shashadhar Sanil, at the Kwangju Institute of Science and Technology observed a strange clumping of molecules in diluted solution.

Until this study was done, it had always been believed that dissolved molecules simply spread further and further apart. However, during this event, they found that the molecules not only clumped together, but the clumps got bigger as the solutions were more dilute [13].

The obvious connection to homeopathy was made, suggesting that clumps might “interact more easily with bio tissue” [13]. However, this allopathic ‘cause and effect’ explanation doesn’t answer all the questions. It answers nicely how the body takes in the remedy, but it doesn’t address the energy exchange. If homeopathic remedies acted on a strictly chemical level, then, according to Kent or Hahnemann, their actions would not be curative. They would simple impose a stronger disease on the vital force.'“If we break matter in smaller and small pieces (electrons, protons, neutrons, hadrons, quarks, etc.) eventually they cease to be an object in our reality”. [20]

“In considering simple substance we cannot think of time, place or space, because we are not in the realm of mathematics nor the restricted measurements of the world of space and time, we are in the realm of simple substance” [ Kent]

Should we ever find a scientific answer to how homeopathic remedies work, I believe, like many, that it will come out of quantum physics. I believe this, because in quantum physics, it is a given that the sub-atomic world does not behave in ways we expect. Quantum physics is a study of energy and it’s effects on matter and that is a good way, in my opinion, to approach the study of homeopathy.

Why is it that sceptics demand that homeopathy be explained in ways that are not demanded by orthodox medicine? Drug trials are not a study of how a drug works, rather, a study to show that the drug has a desired effect. Many common over the counter drugs, aspirin being a good example, still pose a mystery to us. We know that taking an aspirin will cause the body to react in certain ways, but we don’t know the exact mechanism. Yet, sceptics demand to know how homeopathy works. This is a shame, because until a scientifically verified (and recreated) study on the exact mechanism employed by homeopathic remedies is accepted, the countless success stories showing that homeopathy works will be considered anecdotal.

'Thanks for the insight on 'vital force / life force' seems like it is my essence behind or within my physical body. Interesting!!'

Yes, that is right. One could also say it is the spirit that animates you, life itself.

'Now, what to do with pseudo-selfprescribing pesky people? leave them to die?? '

Of course not, but would you attempt to load a gun without guidance, or do surgery on yourself? Some things require help from outside, and homoeopathy is one of them. In terms of chronic illness, it would be better if people avoided our medicines altogether than risk the harm they can cause when used without training.

'So, i want to know what will happen now since all the extra symptoms of NAT M has come and 99% have gone already? (the only symptoms left now is little pain in lower back & tip of my foreskin still not healed from lesion completely hence a bit swollen and tightness when trying to pulling it back). will those symptoms come back? i doubt it, becoz of simple reason of preservation of life force from becoming self destruct.'

It is hard to say what the long-term result of this will be. It may simply fade and you will return to your normal state. On other hand it might have caused a shift in the way your vital force reacts to things, and you may see nat-mur-like symptoms appear again. CM goes so deep, it is hard to really say until some time has passed.

If the potency was too high (which is almost 100% definite) then this is when you see a whole lot of extra symptoms appear. If the remedy is correct it is still possible to get cure this way. However it is also possible you suppressed those symptoms you had previous to the remedy because the potency was so high - in which case either they will reappear worse than before, or a new disease will appear.

You have a philosopher's mind I see :)

My belief is that energy exists prior to the formation of matter, and that energy has a particular pattern or vibration. Matter forms around it, influenced by the frequency or pattern of that energy. When we break the matter down through the process of creating a remedy, we release that pattern into water, and the water mimics this pattern.

When a person ingests the medicine, it is the energy within them (the vital force) that reacts to the pattern in the water AS IF it were the substance, but the physical body itself only reacts as if it were water.

This is how we know there is something within us that is not physical that is responsible for our health and our symptoms. Potentized medicines prove that.

For excess Sweating- nat mur is given often for that-
you cannot take anything else for some time.
For now minimize your salt intake and see if that helps.