The ABC Homeopathy Forum
proving Vs Aggravation
Hi,Please clear my confusion when we say the drug is Proving.
many people say aggravation is a sign that drug is proving. So when one can say that the drug is not working.
According do the rule of homeopathy if a healthy man take a drug it will develop the similer symtomps of a sick man who will be treated by that! That means its not working for the healthy man!
Dipika
Dipika on 2006-10-24
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Proving in the traditional sense means giving a drug in the same potency,every day to a group of healthy persons,and elicit the symptoms they produce.
Each person will produce a different set of symptoms.all these are compiled and the materia medica is made.
Now,if we see some of these symptoms in a sick person,this medicine is capable of removing those symptoms, since it is a similar medicine.
When the medicine is given in a minimum dose,it is likely the symptoms for which the medicine is being taken may flare up, for a short time. That is a good sign that the medicine is working, and the patient will get relif afterwards.
You should stop the medicine when you get aggravations.
In case, the aggravations happen for a very short time,which you may not be able to notice,and continue the medicine,you may get some symptoms of the medicine,which were not there in the patient earlier.
You have to stop atleast now, and wait.
Loosely this stage is called proving the medicine,as the person is getting some new symptoms,hitherto unknown to him.
The other case is taking a non indicated medicine continuously,which instead of helping the complaints, for which the medicine is being taken,may induce some additional symptoms hitherto unknown to the patient.
This is also a sort of proving,and the patient should realise that it is not the correct medicine,and atleast stop now.
It needs good knowledge and experience, to assess how a medicine is working. Until one acquires that knowledge, it is best to take the help of a competent homeopath.
Proving a medicine is good for a healthy man,as any minor problem he has,which can be removed by the medicine will be removed.
However proving is not good for a sick person, as his problems may increase.Sick persons should not attempt to prove a medicine.
Each person will produce a different set of symptoms.all these are compiled and the materia medica is made.
Now,if we see some of these symptoms in a sick person,this medicine is capable of removing those symptoms, since it is a similar medicine.
When the medicine is given in a minimum dose,it is likely the symptoms for which the medicine is being taken may flare up, for a short time. That is a good sign that the medicine is working, and the patient will get relif afterwards.
You should stop the medicine when you get aggravations.
In case, the aggravations happen for a very short time,which you may not be able to notice,and continue the medicine,you may get some symptoms of the medicine,which were not there in the patient earlier.
You have to stop atleast now, and wait.
Loosely this stage is called proving the medicine,as the person is getting some new symptoms,hitherto unknown to him.
The other case is taking a non indicated medicine continuously,which instead of helping the complaints, for which the medicine is being taken,may induce some additional symptoms hitherto unknown to the patient.
This is also a sort of proving,and the patient should realise that it is not the correct medicine,and atleast stop now.
It needs good knowledge and experience, to assess how a medicine is working. Until one acquires that knowledge, it is best to take the help of a competent homeopath.
Proving a medicine is good for a healthy man,as any minor problem he has,which can be removed by the medicine will be removed.
However proving is not good for a sick person, as his problems may increase.Sick persons should not attempt to prove a medicine.
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
To understand about Aggravations ...pl. read my post 'It is good to know this!'...by going through Forum Search.
Pankaj Varma
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Hi GM,
Thanks for the reply! Well I am now clear to more extent. But again u said proving is good for healthy person as any minor problem he has will remove. That's confusing if that man has no problem related to that medicine.
Two questions more ... what if there is no change in good or bad. The person remains same.
Next .. if the patient showing minor result in first few hours after taking a high potency say 200 c. And after few hours comes to the same status!
Dipika
Thanks for the reply! Well I am now clear to more extent. But again u said proving is good for healthy person as any minor problem he has will remove. That's confusing if that man has no problem related to that medicine.
Two questions more ... what if there is no change in good or bad. The person remains same.
Next .. if the patient showing minor result in first few hours after taking a high potency say 200 c. And after few hours comes to the same status!
Dipika
Dipika last decade
Hi Pankaj,
i read your post before in this subject ...where u said aggravtion is a good sign. You also mention that aggravation can stay for few hours to few days. But sometimes its confusing as aggravation problem is more than relief symtoms and patient is in more troublesome state. I think beside aggravation patient should see the some relief in the major symtom for which he chose the drug. Please let me know your opinion.
Dipika
i read your post before in this subject ...where u said aggravtion is a good sign. You also mention that aggravation can stay for few hours to few days. But sometimes its confusing as aggravation problem is more than relief symtoms and patient is in more troublesome state. I think beside aggravation patient should see the some relief in the major symtom for which he chose the drug. Please let me know your opinion.
Dipika
Dipika last decade
Dear dipika
I like your interest.
If you are faitly healthy and want to prove a medicine,take the medicine ,say,in 30 poency daily for 3 weeks.
It is not necessary that you will react to it.If you are not susceptible to the medicine,nothing will happen.
however,if you are susceptible to the medicine,those few symptoms,for which the medicine is similar gets slightly aggravated, and later on will subside totally.
Let me give an example.you wanted to prove Nitric acid.You have no other problem, except say,mouh ulcers.
if you keep on taking nitric acid for the purpose of proving, and if you are susceptible to it, your mouth ulcers will get aggravated for a brief period,and later on you will never get them.
You may not know,before starting proving that nitric acid can cure mouth ulcers.Whether you know about it or not you will get cured.
Susceptibility is another big subject.
Don't ask me to tell about it now. : )
I will do so at some other time.
I think your second question is already answered.That means you don't have susceptibility to the medicine.It can neither do,good or bad.
Now, the third question is indeed a good one.
I can do no better than quoting from 'the science of homeopathy' by George Vithoulkus.
Case XI
Patient: I was better,now the same as I was.
case: Amoelioration without aggravation, then return to full relapse.
Interpretetion: Either 1)Partial remedy causing only a temporary,non curative amelioration.
or 2)incurable case,especially if remedy image during relapse is changed.
Prescription: interpretetion 1)Look again at original case to find a better remedy. Interpretetion 2) Find new remedy based on new image.
Homeopathy is science.There are cleary defined set guidelines what to do when.
try to get this book. it is available from upmteen publishers,including BJAIN ,India.
The Indian edition is just around Rs.150.
I like your interest.
If you are faitly healthy and want to prove a medicine,take the medicine ,say,in 30 poency daily for 3 weeks.
It is not necessary that you will react to it.If you are not susceptible to the medicine,nothing will happen.
however,if you are susceptible to the medicine,those few symptoms,for which the medicine is similar gets slightly aggravated, and later on will subside totally.
Let me give an example.you wanted to prove Nitric acid.You have no other problem, except say,mouh ulcers.
if you keep on taking nitric acid for the purpose of proving, and if you are susceptible to it, your mouth ulcers will get aggravated for a brief period,and later on you will never get them.
You may not know,before starting proving that nitric acid can cure mouth ulcers.Whether you know about it or not you will get cured.
Susceptibility is another big subject.
Don't ask me to tell about it now. : )
I will do so at some other time.
I think your second question is already answered.That means you don't have susceptibility to the medicine.It can neither do,good or bad.
Now, the third question is indeed a good one.
I can do no better than quoting from 'the science of homeopathy' by George Vithoulkus.
Case XI
Patient: I was better,now the same as I was.
case: Amoelioration without aggravation, then return to full relapse.
Interpretetion: Either 1)Partial remedy causing only a temporary,non curative amelioration.
or 2)incurable case,especially if remedy image during relapse is changed.
Prescription: interpretetion 1)Look again at original case to find a better remedy. Interpretetion 2) Find new remedy based on new image.
Homeopathy is science.There are cleary defined set guidelines what to do when.
try to get this book. it is available from upmteen publishers,including BJAIN ,India.
The Indian edition is just around Rs.150.
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Hello Friends,
First about proving.
Lot of noises are being made here by some people that repeating high potencies will cause proving.
The truth is that proving comes from taking large quantities of the crude form of the drug.
The quantity..that will cause proving.... varies from one materia to another materia.
For instance so many people take a pc of garlic every morning. Now...homeopathic Allium Sativum is made from garlic.....so where is the proving in those people. As per homeopaths one pc of garlic would have caused proving. Not so.
From these 'learned homeopaths'...who claim to know everything....can I have a list of meds against which is given the minimum quantity of the crude substance(of that med) that will cause proving on a healthy adult. Has somebody done any research on that. If yes...can we have the details.
They are all reading from books that have assumed some thing and 'vomiting' it out here.
Where is the research !!
Pankaj Varma
First about proving.
Lot of noises are being made here by some people that repeating high potencies will cause proving.
The truth is that proving comes from taking large quantities of the crude form of the drug.
The quantity..that will cause proving.... varies from one materia to another materia.
For instance so many people take a pc of garlic every morning. Now...homeopathic Allium Sativum is made from garlic.....so where is the proving in those people. As per homeopaths one pc of garlic would have caused proving. Not so.
From these 'learned homeopaths'...who claim to know everything....can I have a list of meds against which is given the minimum quantity of the crude substance(of that med) that will cause proving on a healthy adult. Has somebody done any research on that. If yes...can we have the details.
They are all reading from books that have assumed some thing and 'vomiting' it out here.
Where is the research !!
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
re: it is good to know this ! From generalmanager on 2006-10-25
Dear Pankaj
This is your first post.
***************
If you are resorting to self medication in homepathy it is good to know this.....
In homeopathy there is something termed as 'HOMEOPATHIC AGGRAVATION'.
Let me explain this: once you start the process of taking the medicine(s)you might notice some thing happenning like a skin-rash appearing somewhere on the body or a sudden onset of cough, even it can be a slight fever or a headache. May be increase in the intensity of the itch etc. etc....this only means that the toxins are being forced to move out from their preferred hiding places.
Such aggravation may appear briefly and will die out on its own in a few hours to 2/3 days. Yet, such onset is a sure indication for a homeopath that the medicine is working.
The outlet for the toxins is the skin. Hence....appearance of a skin rash is significant. If the medicine is working , the rash will subside on its own.
(If the aggravation is severe, it is advisable to skip some doses of the medicine).
For this specific reason ....it is not advisable to take very high potencies of any medicine on your own .....such as 10M and higher, unless your knowledge of homeopathy is vast and honed over the years.
It would be difficult to control the reaction of the 'homeopathic aggravation' on your own in such circumstances.
*******
I beg to differ.
This is not what is meant by 'aggravation'
aggravation means increase of intensity in the existing symptoms.
If the patient is taking the medicine for headache, if the headache increases for a short time, it is an aggravation.
If the patient is taking a medicine for itch, and if the itching increases for a short time , it is an aggravation.
However, if a skin rash appears, which was not there before taking the medicine it is not an aggravation.
If the patient never had a skin rash in his life,and it appears now, it is an accessary symtom of the medicine, which means the dose is exceeded.
It also may mean a partially indicated medicine.
However, if the patient had the skin rash, somewhere earlier in his life, and it is brought out now,that is good. It means,the medicine is acting correctly, and the direction of cure is proper.
We can discuss further.
re: it is good to know this ! From PANKAJ VARMA on 2006-10-25
Hello Murthy,
The original post was made in 2003...when we had just started posting at ABC Forum.
If you are adding refinements to it...I am happy...coz it will benefit all readers.
Pankaj Varma
re: it is good to know this ! From PANKAJ VARMA on 2006-10-25
The original post in 2003...was made by me with the idea.... to alert readers about aggravation ...so that they could read more about it on their own from books and different websites.
Pankaj Varma
Dear Pankaj
This is your first post.
***************
If you are resorting to self medication in homepathy it is good to know this.....
In homeopathy there is something termed as 'HOMEOPATHIC AGGRAVATION'.
Let me explain this: once you start the process of taking the medicine(s)you might notice some thing happenning like a skin-rash appearing somewhere on the body or a sudden onset of cough, even it can be a slight fever or a headache. May be increase in the intensity of the itch etc. etc....this only means that the toxins are being forced to move out from their preferred hiding places.
Such aggravation may appear briefly and will die out on its own in a few hours to 2/3 days. Yet, such onset is a sure indication for a homeopath that the medicine is working.
The outlet for the toxins is the skin. Hence....appearance of a skin rash is significant. If the medicine is working , the rash will subside on its own.
(If the aggravation is severe, it is advisable to skip some doses of the medicine).
For this specific reason ....it is not advisable to take very high potencies of any medicine on your own .....such as 10M and higher, unless your knowledge of homeopathy is vast and honed over the years.
It would be difficult to control the reaction of the 'homeopathic aggravation' on your own in such circumstances.
*******
I beg to differ.
This is not what is meant by 'aggravation'
aggravation means increase of intensity in the existing symptoms.
If the patient is taking the medicine for headache, if the headache increases for a short time, it is an aggravation.
If the patient is taking a medicine for itch, and if the itching increases for a short time , it is an aggravation.
However, if a skin rash appears, which was not there before taking the medicine it is not an aggravation.
If the patient never had a skin rash in his life,and it appears now, it is an accessary symtom of the medicine, which means the dose is exceeded.
It also may mean a partially indicated medicine.
However, if the patient had the skin rash, somewhere earlier in his life, and it is brought out now,that is good. It means,the medicine is acting correctly, and the direction of cure is proper.
We can discuss further.
re: it is good to know this ! From PANKAJ VARMA on 2006-10-25
Hello Murthy,
The original post was made in 2003...when we had just started posting at ABC Forum.
If you are adding refinements to it...I am happy...coz it will benefit all readers.
Pankaj Varma
re: it is good to know this ! From PANKAJ VARMA on 2006-10-25
The original post in 2003...was made by me with the idea.... to alert readers about aggravation ...so that they could read more about it on their own from books and different websites.
Pankaj Varma
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Hahn,VB,Kent,Hering,Nash,Boger,Tylor,Vithoulkus,Vijayakar,Luc De scheppar..all are fools.
I am the only wise man on this earth.Either listen to me,or Saibabawill see your end.
I am the only wise man on this earth.Either listen to me,or Saibabawill see your end.
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Yes Murthy...I am telling every one not to take our word for granted...read more and apply your mind. Question everything...ask for research for everything.
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
When you have no answers to my questions you 'throw the books' into the fray.
What is your own experience?
I am quoting from experience. Do you think people will not understand the garlic/ Allium Sativum example.
There are many other homeopathic meds like that. I will quote names in due course.
What is your own experience?
I am quoting from experience. Do you think people will not understand the garlic/ Allium Sativum example.
There are many other homeopathic meds like that. I will quote names in due course.
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
any way..
coming back to the subject of the topic.
Provings are always conducted in potencies only.Never with crude substances, as some of them can be dangerous.
Hahn. initially proved cinchona bark, in crude form,but that procedure was abandoned during his time itself,the reason being
1)a substance,whose effect on humans is unknown can be dangerous to life in its crude form. For example..Ars.alb..snake venoms,even aconite..
2)The symptoms from proving the potencies,are found more reliable.
coming back to the subject of the topic.
Provings are always conducted in potencies only.Never with crude substances, as some of them can be dangerous.
Hahn. initially proved cinchona bark, in crude form,but that procedure was abandoned during his time itself,the reason being
1)a substance,whose effect on humans is unknown can be dangerous to life in its crude form. For example..Ars.alb..snake venoms,even aconite..
2)The symptoms from proving the potencies,are found more reliable.
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
never mind the divertions..
we will continue..
during Hahn.days provings were conducted upto 30c.only.
however recently there are provings conducted even with 1M.
Very few provings are available with potencies above 1M,as it can be dangerous.
Most of the present day provings are conducted in 200 potency.
we will continue..
during Hahn.days provings were conducted upto 30c.only.
however recently there are provings conducted even with 1M.
Very few provings are available with potencies above 1M,as it can be dangerous.
Most of the present day provings are conducted in 200 potency.
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Natrum phosphoricum
-- E. A. Farrington
In our school, several partial provings were made years ago by Dr. Hering.
The following resume is collected from nineteen provings made by twelve provers; nine males, three females. The potencies range from the sixth to the 100,000th. No prover knew the name of the medicine, nor did any two have opportunities of conversing or comparing notes. In no case was a single dose given, but at least twenty were taken. The first proving was made in 1869, the last in August 1875.
I am well aware that prejudice will lead some to refuse these provings because they were made principally with the high potencies. This, however, will in no wise alter their truth falsity. If four or more persons, in different seasons of the year and different latitudes, experience the same effects from any given potency, we have an indisputable right to claim these effects as resulting from the medicine taken. If only one prover develops a certain symptom, or set of symptoms, they may be fallacious or they may be true. Who shall decide from preformed opinion? Neither. There is no court of appeal for the homoeopathician but that which Hahnemann was the first to establish, viz., experiment. So with the symptoms here offered for trail. If they fail when tried, let them go. If they do not fail, let us use them, however our prejudices may question their origin.
Great care has been exercised in preparing the accompanying resume. Symptoms which had been previously experienced by the provers have generally been omitted. Something may thus have been lost, especially as illustrating the reawakening of latent disease; but much has been gained in precision and certainty. For the same reasons obscure or indefinite symptoms have been reserved until more clearly expressed.
**********
This an example to show how a proving is conducted.
-- E. A. Farrington
In our school, several partial provings were made years ago by Dr. Hering.
The following resume is collected from nineteen provings made by twelve provers; nine males, three females. The potencies range from the sixth to the 100,000th. No prover knew the name of the medicine, nor did any two have opportunities of conversing or comparing notes. In no case was a single dose given, but at least twenty were taken. The first proving was made in 1869, the last in August 1875.
I am well aware that prejudice will lead some to refuse these provings because they were made principally with the high potencies. This, however, will in no wise alter their truth falsity. If four or more persons, in different seasons of the year and different latitudes, experience the same effects from any given potency, we have an indisputable right to claim these effects as resulting from the medicine taken. If only one prover develops a certain symptom, or set of symptoms, they may be fallacious or they may be true. Who shall decide from preformed opinion? Neither. There is no court of appeal for the homoeopathician but that which Hahnemann was the first to establish, viz., experiment. So with the symptoms here offered for trail. If they fail when tried, let them go. If they do not fail, let us use them, however our prejudices may question their origin.
Great care has been exercised in preparing the accompanying resume. Symptoms which had been previously experienced by the provers have generally been omitted. Something may thus have been lost, especially as illustrating the reawakening of latent disease; but much has been gained in precision and certainty. For the same reasons obscure or indefinite symptoms have been reserved until more clearly expressed.
**********
This an example to show how a proving is conducted.
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Murthy, Good info. Sorry to deviate a bit from the topic, but I've got a question. Whenever I've read older cases they always talk about giving potencies in the 100,000th (as above. Example One doese of Phosophorus 100,000 rapidly cured. etc.). 1,000c is equal to 1M, right? So are they referring to 1M or an even higher potency?
homeopathyguy last decade
So Murthy,
Is there a list giving name of med and against it...how much quantity will cause proving. Because ...for each substance the quantity is different.
Quantity in:
1. Fraction of a milligram (i.e. ...potency)
2. Milligram
3. Gram or
4. Multiple of 5/10 grams.
Based on research.
Like we do tests in a Chemistry Lab.
All you are confirming with your example is that Proving takes place. I never disputed that. My question is:
How much quantity of the med causes proving ?????
That quantity is different for each substance...I am telling you.
Pankaj Varma
Is there a list giving name of med and against it...how much quantity will cause proving. Because ...for each substance the quantity is different.
Quantity in:
1. Fraction of a milligram (i.e. ...potency)
2. Milligram
3. Gram or
4. Multiple of 5/10 grams.
Based on research.
Like we do tests in a Chemistry Lab.
All you are confirming with your example is that Proving takes place. I never disputed that. My question is:
How much quantity of the med causes proving ?????
That quantity is different for each substance...I am telling you.
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Yes.If 'c' is not used, you have to remove the last two zeroes.
So, a 100,000th means 1000 C ,which is 1M.
Many doctors from Kent onwards used potencies all the way upto MM.
The scale is like this.
6C,30C,200C,1000C=1M,10M,50M,CM=100M,MM=100M
kent calls them octaves of potencies. I don't think anybody goes beyond MM.
These are useful diversions.Benefits all.
So, a 100,000th means 1000 C ,which is 1M.
Many doctors from Kent onwards used potencies all the way upto MM.
The scale is like this.
6C,30C,200C,1000C=1M,10M,50M,CM=100M,MM=100M
kent calls them octaves of potencies. I don't think anybody goes beyond MM.
These are useful diversions.Benefits all.
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Hi guys
We are talking of energies.Others are talking of grams.
Energies of homeopathic potencies are yet to be measured, but be assured they are much more potent than crude substances.
You can take salt every day.It won't harm you.
Try takinga Nat.mur MM everyday, and see the results.!!!
Do the experiment yourself, instead of asking others.
We are talking of energies.Others are talking of grams.
Energies of homeopathic potencies are yet to be measured, but be assured they are much more potent than crude substances.
You can take salt every day.It won't harm you.
Try takinga Nat.mur MM everyday, and see the results.!!!
Do the experiment yourself, instead of asking others.
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
homeopathyguy last decade
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Information given in this forum is given by way of exchange of views only, and those views are not necessarily those of ABC Homeopathy. It is not to be treated as a medical diagnosis or prescription, and should not be used as a substitute for a consultation with a qualified homeopath or physician. It is possible that advice given here may be dangerous, and you should make your own checks that it is safe. If symptoms persist, seek professional medical attention. Bear in mind that even minor symptoms can be a sign of a more serious underlying condition, and a timely diagnosis by your doctor could save your life.