The ABC Homeopathy Forum
palliation vs suppression
This was a question by Maya.'Murthy, you have not answered my most important question. Isnt a palliative better than suffering. What about chronic patients? No cure for diabetes or hypertension. Isnt the palliative taken daily better than nothing.
maya'
***************
I told her to open a seperate thread to answer this question.
I will make an attempt here to answer her question.
Murthy
♥ gavinimurthy on 2006-11-24
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
she gave examples of diabetes and hypertension, which she feels are uncurable. However, as long as the vitality of the patient is good enough, these conditions too are curable.
Any way, leaving aside these particular conditions, let us asume the vitality of the patient is low, and he reached a stage where some of his problems reached an uncurable stage.
Let us assume palliation is the only possibility.Now, the question is how to palliate effectively?
Are there right methods of palliation, and wrong methods too?
If there are wrong methods of palliation, what are the consequences?
How do we recognise that we are getting palliated, but in a wrong way?
These are the some of the basic questions, I would like to answer in this thread.
Murthy
Any way, leaving aside these particular conditions, let us asume the vitality of the patient is low, and he reached a stage where some of his problems reached an uncurable stage.
Let us assume palliation is the only possibility.Now, the question is how to palliate effectively?
Are there right methods of palliation, and wrong methods too?
If there are wrong methods of palliation, what are the consequences?
How do we recognise that we are getting palliated, but in a wrong way?
These are the some of the basic questions, I would like to answer in this thread.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
I would like this thread to be a bit different, from the monologues,which you are used to.
I want the participation of as many members as possible, and welcome everybody to participate in this discussion.
I will govery slow on this, giving ample time for others to express their views.
Murthy
I want the participation of as many members as possible, and welcome everybody to participate in this discussion.
I will govery slow on this, giving ample time for others to express their views.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Dear Mr Murthy,
This thread has been incomplete since several months... I am waiting to hear more about Palliation from you ! Please go ahead with your scholarly analysis.
thanks,
-sriram
This thread has been incomplete since several months... I am waiting to hear more about Palliation from you ! Please go ahead with your scholarly analysis.
thanks,
-sriram
sriram last decade
Hi Sriram
I am glad you revived this thread after 7 months.
As I said earlier, i used to discuss the philosophy of homeopathy, irrespective of the fact whether anyone is taking notice or not.
I got tired of it, and hence decided to continue further ,only if people show interst.
I will come back very shortly.
Murthy
I am glad you revived this thread after 7 months.
As I said earlier, i used to discuss the philosophy of homeopathy, irrespective of the fact whether anyone is taking notice or not.
I got tired of it, and hence decided to continue further ,only if people show interst.
I will come back very shortly.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
I have already dealt with the aspects of suppression in the thread
The theory of suppression.
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/87937/
Now, let us consider the aspects of palliation.
We can make a patient more comfortable by the art of palliation by use of a well selected homeopathic remedy.
There is a right way and a wrong way to palliate. The wrong way can lead to metastasis to more important organs. This can lead to further complications.
The right kind of palliation just removes the painful symptoms/troublesome symptoms, without adding any new ones.
The palliative remedy needs to be taken at frequent intervals. The remedy acts superficially, and can't cure as the patient's vitality is low, and cure is not possible.
The palliation by homeopathic medicines, is possible in chronic renal failures, diabetes, hypertension,etc, and the patient can be made comfortable, without actual cure.
As I said earlier if the vitality is strong some cases may get cured. But with multitude of allopathic medicines these people take daily for years together, it is very difficult to attempt a cure by homeopathy, but palliation is possible.
On the other hand, Let us consider the palliation in cancer cases.
When death is near and something quick has to be done, a gradual stimulation of the vital organs is possible; no disease will be removed or cured.In exceptional cases palliation is used as an anaesthetic.
The use of the laws of similia are also used in palliation of incurable diseases. This holds a permanent 'hope' for the patient. Patient can be made comfortable.
In case the symptoms change due to the natural worsening of disease, (not because of the homeopathic medicine), the more appropriate remedy is to be chosen, which is similar to the 'present' symptoms.
So, in terminal cases the remedy needs to be changed frequently for effective palliation.
I welcome further discussion.
Murthy
The theory of suppression.
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/87937/
Now, let us consider the aspects of palliation.
We can make a patient more comfortable by the art of palliation by use of a well selected homeopathic remedy.
There is a right way and a wrong way to palliate. The wrong way can lead to metastasis to more important organs. This can lead to further complications.
The right kind of palliation just removes the painful symptoms/troublesome symptoms, without adding any new ones.
The palliative remedy needs to be taken at frequent intervals. The remedy acts superficially, and can't cure as the patient's vitality is low, and cure is not possible.
The palliation by homeopathic medicines, is possible in chronic renal failures, diabetes, hypertension,etc, and the patient can be made comfortable, without actual cure.
As I said earlier if the vitality is strong some cases may get cured. But with multitude of allopathic medicines these people take daily for years together, it is very difficult to attempt a cure by homeopathy, but palliation is possible.
On the other hand, Let us consider the palliation in cancer cases.
When death is near and something quick has to be done, a gradual stimulation of the vital organs is possible; no disease will be removed or cured.In exceptional cases palliation is used as an anaesthetic.
The use of the laws of similia are also used in palliation of incurable diseases. This holds a permanent 'hope' for the patient. Patient can be made comfortable.
In case the symptoms change due to the natural worsening of disease, (not because of the homeopathic medicine), the more appropriate remedy is to be chosen, which is similar to the 'present' symptoms.
So, in terminal cases the remedy needs to be changed frequently for effective palliation.
I welcome further discussion.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Dear Mr.Murthy,
Thank you very much for responding to my request to revive this thread. I felt it is high time I need some food for thought !
I am asking the following questions out of an eagerness to know the subject. Much of my questions are based on my own guesswork or speculation. In any case, please do reply.
How does the remedy used for palliation relate with the similimum or the constitutional remedy of the patient? Is it same or different? Does use of the constitutional remedy for palliation result in severe aggravation (I vaguely remember reading somewhere like this.. is this correct)?
Also, before commencing constitutional treatment for a person suffering from chronic disease, is it normal practise to palliate the acute flare up of the chronic problem first, before administering the constitutional remedy? (One of my doctors tried to palliate my problem with a remedy before administering the similimum.)
You have mentioned:
QUOTE The use of the laws of similia are also used in palliation of incurable diseases.
UNQUOTE
If the exact similimum is used, normally we expect a cure. How is it that it can be used to merely palliate? Can you explain, please?
What potencies are normally used for palliation?
How does palliation by similar remedy differ from palliation by combinations (which are quite popular in the market now-a-days)?
Eagerly awaiting your replies,
thanks,
-sriram
Thank you very much for responding to my request to revive this thread. I felt it is high time I need some food for thought !
I am asking the following questions out of an eagerness to know the subject. Much of my questions are based on my own guesswork or speculation. In any case, please do reply.
How does the remedy used for palliation relate with the similimum or the constitutional remedy of the patient? Is it same or different? Does use of the constitutional remedy for palliation result in severe aggravation (I vaguely remember reading somewhere like this.. is this correct)?
Also, before commencing constitutional treatment for a person suffering from chronic disease, is it normal practise to palliate the acute flare up of the chronic problem first, before administering the constitutional remedy? (One of my doctors tried to palliate my problem with a remedy before administering the similimum.)
You have mentioned:
QUOTE The use of the laws of similia are also used in palliation of incurable diseases.
UNQUOTE
If the exact similimum is used, normally we expect a cure. How is it that it can be used to merely palliate? Can you explain, please?
What potencies are normally used for palliation?
How does palliation by similar remedy differ from palliation by combinations (which are quite popular in the market now-a-days)?
Eagerly awaiting your replies,
thanks,
-sriram
sriram last decade
Hi Sriram
Very good questions.
To whet your appetite for knowledge ,I have to give a detailed reply.
It is late in the night now.
I will come back tomorrow.
Murthy
Very good questions.
To whet your appetite for knowledge ,I have to give a detailed reply.
It is late in the night now.
I will come back tomorrow.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Dear Mr Murthy,
Please do post your reply at least in parts, if you feel it will be too long to reply all questions in one shot!
I am eagerly awaiting your reply.
Thanks,
-sriram
Please do post your reply at least in parts, if you feel it will be too long to reply all questions in one shot!
I am eagerly awaiting your reply.
Thanks,
-sriram
sriram last decade
O.K.
Let me answer your first query.
**************
How does the remedy used for palliation relate with the similimum or the constitutional remedy of the patient? Is it same or different? Does use of the constitutional remedy for palliation result in severe aggravation (I vaguely remember reading somewhere like this.. is this correct)?
*******************
Palliation is resorted to when the vitality is too low, and there is no hope of cure.
The remedy is chosen based on the most prominent and striking symptoms exhibited by the patient.
The so called constitutional remedy is chosen based on the miasmatic analysis, the etiology, the present and past symptoms as a whole. The present physical problems too are taken into account, but they have the last priority.
In case palliation is the goal,the past history is not important, and what is needed is the remedy that matches the present symptoms.
They are given the highest weightage in the analysis.
The aggravation is to be avoided at all costs, and care must be taken while selecting the medicine. Deep acting medicines are normally avoided.
The management is done mostly through split doses in water, and the physician needs to see and assess the patient,more frequently than normal.
Murthy
Let me answer your first query.
**************
How does the remedy used for palliation relate with the similimum or the constitutional remedy of the patient? Is it same or different? Does use of the constitutional remedy for palliation result in severe aggravation (I vaguely remember reading somewhere like this.. is this correct)?
*******************
Palliation is resorted to when the vitality is too low, and there is no hope of cure.
The remedy is chosen based on the most prominent and striking symptoms exhibited by the patient.
The so called constitutional remedy is chosen based on the miasmatic analysis, the etiology, the present and past symptoms as a whole. The present physical problems too are taken into account, but they have the last priority.
In case palliation is the goal,the past history is not important, and what is needed is the remedy that matches the present symptoms.
They are given the highest weightage in the analysis.
The aggravation is to be avoided at all costs, and care must be taken while selecting the medicine. Deep acting medicines are normally avoided.
The management is done mostly through split doses in water, and the physician needs to see and assess the patient,more frequently than normal.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Dear Murthy,
Thanks for dedicating this post to my query.
Will just tell you an example..
My Blood sugar PP was keeping on increasing and no remedy was seeming to control it. So I tried Yoga. In 3 weeks the sugar dropped 100 points, and I stopped taking Syzygium Q 40 drops at night and only kept it in the moring. To my surprise, it went up 20 points in 2 weeks, at this I have restarted taking it at night too.
What will you advise here. Is there a cure for my diabetes and HBP??
maya
Thanks for dedicating this post to my query.
Will just tell you an example..
My Blood sugar PP was keeping on increasing and no remedy was seeming to control it. So I tried Yoga. In 3 weeks the sugar dropped 100 points, and I stopped taking Syzygium Q 40 drops at night and only kept it in the moring. To my surprise, it went up 20 points in 2 weeks, at this I have restarted taking it at night too.
What will you advise here. Is there a cure for my diabetes and HBP??
maya
maya_hari last decade
Dear Maya
If Syzegium is helping you to palliate your blood sugar and BP, and there are no other adverse symptoms, from its continued usage, you may continue it.
It is better than taking allopathic medicines.
Knowing your history through your previous posts, I doubt very much whether you can be really cured.
Be happy with palliation.
Murthy
If Syzegium is helping you to palliate your blood sugar and BP, and there are no other adverse symptoms, from its continued usage, you may continue it.
It is better than taking allopathic medicines.
Knowing your history through your previous posts, I doubt very much whether you can be really cured.
Be happy with palliation.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
If 'Syzygium' is working on you then I would suggest continue 'Yoga' both times morning and evening. Reduce your 'Syzygium' drops slowly. When your immune system will improve through Yoga by inhaling more oxygen in your body you may slowly be able to stop it.
Rajendra last decade
Thanks to both of you. I have restarted the Syzygium. Am keeping on with the yoga too. I do kapal bhati in the morning and at 10 am when my teacher is there. Lets see when i can reduce my dosage.
maya
maya
maya_hari last decade
Do Kapalbhati and other Pranayams like Anulom Vilom etc. Kapalbhati to be done atleast 20-25 minutes at a time.
Rajendra last decade
Hi Sriram
To answer your second question
'Also, before commencing constitutional treatment for a person suffering from chronic disease, is it normal practise to palliate the acute flare up of the chronic problem first, before administering the constitutional remedy? (One of my doctors tried to palliate my problem with a remedy before administering the similimum.)'
Let me quote directly from Kent.
*********
There are cases that would be greatly injured by so deeply acting a remedy as Sil. if given in the beginning, that is, the suffering would be unnecessary; but if you commence with Puls. you can mitigate the case and prepare it to receive Sil., providing the two would appear to be on a plane of agreement.
A very serious case had better first receive Puls., and the way being paved by that remedy follow it up with Sil.
********
It is always beter to start the treatment of painful problems with an acute remedy, and switch over to the chronic remedy later.
Another example I can give you is that of Bry and Nat.mur for headaches.
The symptoms are common to both, aggravation in morning, throbbing carotids, severe headache etc.
However, it is wise to start the case with Bryonia, let the severety subside, and then aim for a cure with nat.mur later on.
I have practical experience of this tip with my son, and it worked wonderfully.
I think Tyler mentions about this somewhere.
So, if the symptoms point equally well to two remedies, one acute and the other chronic, you are safer to start withe acute one first.
Murthy
To answer your second question
'Also, before commencing constitutional treatment for a person suffering from chronic disease, is it normal practise to palliate the acute flare up of the chronic problem first, before administering the constitutional remedy? (One of my doctors tried to palliate my problem with a remedy before administering the similimum.)'
Let me quote directly from Kent.
*********
There are cases that would be greatly injured by so deeply acting a remedy as Sil. if given in the beginning, that is, the suffering would be unnecessary; but if you commence with Puls. you can mitigate the case and prepare it to receive Sil., providing the two would appear to be on a plane of agreement.
A very serious case had better first receive Puls., and the way being paved by that remedy follow it up with Sil.
********
It is always beter to start the treatment of painful problems with an acute remedy, and switch over to the chronic remedy later.
Another example I can give you is that of Bry and Nat.mur for headaches.
The symptoms are common to both, aggravation in morning, throbbing carotids, severe headache etc.
However, it is wise to start the case with Bryonia, let the severety subside, and then aim for a cure with nat.mur later on.
I have practical experience of this tip with my son, and it worked wonderfully.
I think Tyler mentions about this somewhere.
So, if the symptoms point equally well to two remedies, one acute and the other chronic, you are safer to start withe acute one first.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Ovedose of 'Syzygium' may result in sweating, weakness etc. So pl. adjust your dose in time.
Rajendra last decade
This is the next question to be answered.
**********
If the exact similimum is used, normally we expect a cure. How is it that it can be used to merely palliate? Can you explain, please?
*********
As I said earlier palliation is attempted only when there is no hope for cure. Since the vitality of the patient is too low, even the indicated medicine will act for a few days only, and the force of the disease will make the patient worse once again.
When that happens,there will not be much use if you repeat the same medicine, and you have hunt for a new medicne to continue the palliation.
The knowledge of the families of medicines, the relationships between remedies will be a great help in such cases.
Murthy
**********
If the exact similimum is used, normally we expect a cure. How is it that it can be used to merely palliate? Can you explain, please?
*********
As I said earlier palliation is attempted only when there is no hope for cure. Since the vitality of the patient is too low, even the indicated medicine will act for a few days only, and the force of the disease will make the patient worse once again.
When that happens,there will not be much use if you repeat the same medicine, and you have hunt for a new medicne to continue the palliation.
The knowledge of the families of medicines, the relationships between remedies will be a great help in such cases.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
This is the next question
What potencies are normally used for palliation?
*********
Generally low potencies like 6c/6x or lower are used. There is no point in causing a turmoil in the already weakened vital force with a high potency.
Murthy
What potencies are normally used for palliation?
*********
Generally low potencies like 6c/6x or lower are used. There is no point in causing a turmoil in the already weakened vital force with a high potency.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
In advance cases of disease when there is a little hope of recovery low potencies are given to control the present layer we we call it ordinary management or suppression with low potencies and what about the Homeo physician who use combo remedies in low potencies as a routine in their daily practice where cure is needed and the stage is not advance demanding palliation.
sajjadakram635 last decade
I met many combo prescribers they claim cure with their low potency 'NUMBERS'.It may be true in acute diseases but i am sure not in chronic diseases.
sajjad.
sajjad.
sajjadakram635 last decade
Dear Sajjad
Any thing goes in the name of homeopathy. That is the sad part.
Even the manufacturers themselves claim that these combinations are for 'temporary relief' of the problem, and many of them suggest to consult a homeopath and follow classical homeopathy for a cure.
However, the practitioners having found an easy way to keep suppressing the disease, resort to this combination prescription, and they simply won't acknoweledge the long term problems.
Murthy
Any thing goes in the name of homeopathy. That is the sad part.
Even the manufacturers themselves claim that these combinations are for 'temporary relief' of the problem, and many of them suggest to consult a homeopath and follow classical homeopathy for a cure.
However, the practitioners having found an easy way to keep suppressing the disease, resort to this combination prescription, and they simply won't acknoweledge the long term problems.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Mr Murthy, I am posting part of the other thread which concerns this issue here, for reference in the future. I hope you do not mind:
Re: height deficiency From rishimba
on 2008-02-16
'you are here to promote hahnemanian homeopathy and thus its in your interest to explain to the forum members the following
- how a palliative remedy different from one used for acute prescribing.
- how would you go about treating day to day ailments like flu, cold and cough, stomach disorders, headaches etc. do you think acute prescribing for palliating the symptoms is not homeopathy at all.
- if palliation is so dangerous, as being preached by some hanemanian homeopaths, why RECKEWEG remedy mixes are so popular in the world.'
Re: height deficiency
From Mr Organon on 2008-02-16
'Palliation only ever achieves temporary relief of symptoms, this is it's nature, so there is not really a whole lot of difference when it comes to ACUTE prescribing, as acute diseases will mostly resolve themselves, even under this kind of treatment, as this is THEIR nature. However, in CHRONIC disease, because palliation provides only temporary relief of symptoms, as evident by the need to continually apply the substance in question to
keep the condition at bay, even if this at long intervals, cure does not come, as this is only achieved by the application of the substance which will remove the condition permanently.
This would depend on whether such complaints are acute or chronic. Colds and Flu obviously fall into the acute category, and are an example of genus epidemicus, in most cases, but even here, we must ask if such 'infections' are occurring with regularity, and if they are, there must be some underlying cause which makes the patient so prone to these.
Stomach disorders, headaches etc though, if they are recurrent, and do not have any obvious 'external'/lifestyle cause (such as stimulant consumption, bad diet/food poisoning etc), may be either acute or chronic, and it must be ascertained which is the case before deciding on the mode of treatment employed, which may be easily achieved by looking deeper into the case.
If these ARE indeed chronic in nature, then palliation/acute treatment of these will do nothing in the long term, and no, I would not consider the acute treatment of these complaints, in this circumstance as anything more than mongrel Homoeopathy.
I have no idea what 'RECKWEG' mixes are, but combination remedies in general are popular amongst the public, simply because this type of palliation will provide the quickest form of relief which may be obtained, and people will use this until it ceases to be of benefit.
They are popular amongst 'non-classical' prescribers, simply because they require only a fraction of the effort or skill involved in finding the actual similium for the case.
They do not cure anything though, except very occassionally, where the ONE remedy required is present in the combination, but even in this circumstance, FULL cure is rare, because the vital force is only really capable of reacting fully to one dynamic 'substance' at a time. Mostly they just provide immediate relief of symptoms, but even here, if they are used for indefinite periods, and the case is chronic, the end result will be an eventual supression of the symptoms present, which results in the underlying disease moving deeper into the body, and attacking more important organs.
I hope this answers your questions.
'Dr' O.
Re: height deficiency From rishimba
on 2008-02-16
'you are here to promote hahnemanian homeopathy and thus its in your interest to explain to the forum members the following
- how a palliative remedy different from one used for acute prescribing.
- how would you go about treating day to day ailments like flu, cold and cough, stomach disorders, headaches etc. do you think acute prescribing for palliating the symptoms is not homeopathy at all.
- if palliation is so dangerous, as being preached by some hanemanian homeopaths, why RECKEWEG remedy mixes are so popular in the world.'
Re: height deficiency
From Mr Organon on 2008-02-16
'Palliation only ever achieves temporary relief of symptoms, this is it's nature, so there is not really a whole lot of difference when it comes to ACUTE prescribing, as acute diseases will mostly resolve themselves, even under this kind of treatment, as this is THEIR nature. However, in CHRONIC disease, because palliation provides only temporary relief of symptoms, as evident by the need to continually apply the substance in question to
keep the condition at bay, even if this at long intervals, cure does not come, as this is only achieved by the application of the substance which will remove the condition permanently.
This would depend on whether such complaints are acute or chronic. Colds and Flu obviously fall into the acute category, and are an example of genus epidemicus, in most cases, but even here, we must ask if such 'infections' are occurring with regularity, and if they are, there must be some underlying cause which makes the patient so prone to these.
Stomach disorders, headaches etc though, if they are recurrent, and do not have any obvious 'external'/lifestyle cause (such as stimulant consumption, bad diet/food poisoning etc), may be either acute or chronic, and it must be ascertained which is the case before deciding on the mode of treatment employed, which may be easily achieved by looking deeper into the case.
If these ARE indeed chronic in nature, then palliation/acute treatment of these will do nothing in the long term, and no, I would not consider the acute treatment of these complaints, in this circumstance as anything more than mongrel Homoeopathy.
I have no idea what 'RECKWEG' mixes are, but combination remedies in general are popular amongst the public, simply because this type of palliation will provide the quickest form of relief which may be obtained, and people will use this until it ceases to be of benefit.
They are popular amongst 'non-classical' prescribers, simply because they require only a fraction of the effort or skill involved in finding the actual similium for the case.
They do not cure anything though, except very occassionally, where the ONE remedy required is present in the combination, but even in this circumstance, FULL cure is rare, because the vital force is only really capable of reacting fully to one dynamic 'substance' at a time. Mostly they just provide immediate relief of symptoms, but even here, if they are used for indefinite periods, and the case is chronic, the end result will be an eventual supression of the symptoms present, which results in the underlying disease moving deeper into the body, and attacking more important organs.
I hope this answers your questions.
'Dr' O.
Mr Organon last decade
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