For Dr.Joe De Livera

Since Phytolacca Berry has already helped you to reduce your weight, I see no reason why you should change over to any other remedy to do so now.

I have prescribed Nat Phos 6x to many hundreds who have used it successfully to reduce weight up to 1kg per week and you can consider it if you still wish to use an alternative.

You may like to know that it is quite safe for nursing mothers and some have even used it to help their babies not to have wet burps after a feed.

Please note that I am not qualified in Homeopathy but do have about 25 years of hands on experience in this science.

Nat.Phos will not work for you. On the other hand it may create new problems if taken continuously.

Your best bet is physical exercises.

Murthy

To Manisha

I do agree with Murthy's suggestion that you continue with your exercise even though it may be just walking but the main idea is to get up a sweat.

Please ignore his other statement:
'Nat.Phos will not work for you. On the other hand it may create new problems if taken continuously.'

He was one of my first patients about 3 years ago to whom I prescribed NP shortly after I had discovered that it did help to reduce weight, but he is addicted to coffee and NP did not work with him when antidoted by coffee.

It is perfectly safe in use and many thousands are using it to reduce weight throughout the world.

quote

It is perfectly safe in use and many thousands are using it to reduce weight throughout the world.

unquote

***********

There is not even one instance on record to show that there is substantial weight reduction, after using Nat.Phos in long term.

Forget about thousands. It is only an unsubstantiated assumption.

On the other hands there are many complaints after using it continuously, on this forum, as well as other forums.

I can dig them out, if need be.

It won't help to reduce your tummy.

Forget about it.Do some exercises desiged to reduce the tummy alone.

Murthy

Dear vpmanisha.

Phytolacca berry has been touted as a natural aid to weight loss for many years now, and it does seem to have some effect on this in SOME individuals. However, it's use for this is not Homoeopathic, as among it's poisoning symptoms is emaciation, and this is how it induces weightloss, an entirely allopathic application of this plant. It is also of course capable of inducing many other symptoms as part of it's drug picture, and I would not recommend it's long term use for this reason.


-Jacob.

There is only one way to induce permanent and lasting weight loss, and this is through diet, which should be very low in carbohydrates, and gently increasing your activity levels, walking more for example.


-Jacob.

I am simply amazed at the attitude of Murthy and Jacob who both seem to derive some sadistic satisfaction in shadowing my every post and delight in trying to make out that any remedy that I have prescribed to the patient in about half the almost 5000 posts that I have made so far on the ABC is non classical and cannot therefore work to help the patient.

It is indeed strange that many patients who have benefited from my therapy have gratefully acknowledged the cures that have resulted but these two hyper classical homeopaths are blind to these posts and have demanded that I provide them with evidence in support.

In the case of Manisha I responded to her request for help to reduce her weight and my post was immediately besieged by the 2 homeopathic constables who warned her that Nat Phos 6x could not help her etc.

They have both often demanded proof that NP does help to reduce weight and I have just made a separate post on the ABC which I shall copy below:

Evidence that Nat Phos 6x reduces weight from the ABC
From Joe De Livera on 2006-11-25
0 replies 0 views
To Murthy and Jacob

You have both taunted me often that my discovery that Nat Phos 6x reduces weight is only a figment of my imagination.
It was only after many trials on people who were overweight in Sri Lanka, who incidentally are very difficult to trace as the population is usually underweight, that I made my post entitled 'The Ultimate Cure for Obesity' on Christmas Day 2004, the day before the Tsunami hit Sri Lanka causing the loss of over 30000 lives.

You have often requested me to provide proof with reference to a link on the internet for evidence that Nat Phos has reduced weight. I requested my secretary to list the references to weight reduction on the thread which I shall copy below for your information.

http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/15923/

I shall list the references to patients who have benefited from Nat Phos and the reference is by name and date.

CRUTHBH JULY 5 2005 LOST 5 POUNDS IN 1 WEEK
SAIPHM JULY 6 2005 LOST 2 POUNDS IN 2 WEEKS
CRUTHBH JULY 19 2005 LOST 2 POUNDS MORE
DO AUGUST 8 2005 LOST1 POUND MORE
FRED06 MARCH 7 2006 LOST 7KG IN 2 MONTHS

This is the list that I have been given and it is very likely that there are more records of weight loss on the forum if you care to do a diligent search for this phenomenon.

The maximum weight loss that I have recorded was 25kg in 9 months when the weight of my first test patient was reduced from 135kg down to 110. He is 6'3' height and he does not seem overweight today.

I have an employee who has reduced her weight by 10kg in about a year and she still takes a dose of 1 tablet NP twice daily as she discovered otherwise that he weight tends to climb up.

I have also been informed that Nat Phos 6x is in use in Health Farms in the US as they have discovered that it is by far the cheapest and the safest of the remedies that they give their clients but I do not have any reference to them. I am only repeating this news that I got from a US citizen who discovered this fact.

I hope that this evidence will serve as a starting point for you both to do your own tests of this remedy as this is what I lack here in Sri Lanka where I do not have any possibility of carrying out double blind tests for weight reduction under laboratory conditions.

I do hope that others who have these facilities will use them to verify my findings.

Joe De Livera

By now, you might have seen the analysis on the other threads, and knew the truth.

It is not the ultimate cure.

'The ultimate hoax.'

Murthy

Dear Jacob

I did an analysis of one of Mr Joe's claim on controlling obesity, and this is my analysis extracted from this forum, please take time to read it and you will find out that most of his claims are not backed up by proper facts. Below i am quoting my analysis

''''Joe

I have been reading the thread titled “Weight Reduction with Nat Phos 6X Latest News”, which was started by you on 10th June’2005, has been read 4859 times and contains 58 replies. The following is the breakdown of these replies.

Replies related to Nat Phos, patients/doctors never came back with any feedback

(1) Neeru Thakur, 1st post on 25/7/05,
(1) angie_C , 1st post on 31/7/05,
(1) jatin9 , 1st post on 2/8/05,
(5) belciuge , 1st postt on 14/8/05,
(1) rg_us , 1st post on 7/10/05,
(1) drprabhatlkw , 1st post on 28/10/05,
(4) cruthbh , 1st post on 14/8/05, responded that her weight has stabilized ( not increasing anymore)
(1) freenmaddie , 1st post on 2/8/06

Replies related to Nat Phos, patient came back with negative feed backs.
(3) Karishma , 1st post on 11/10/05

Replies not related to Nat Phos
(9) sthillaiyah
(3) libra
(1) pat2006

Criticism on Joe
(2) Nisha_India
(4) saltofearth

Replies by Joe
(21) Joe

Number is brackets indicate number of posts written by that person

As you can see from the above analysis, out of the 9 patients who used Nat Phos, only one reported a stability in her weight, one responded very negatively, six never came back, and one didn’t talk about Nat phos ever again, which can lead anyone to believe that your post does not give a clear indication, that Nat Phos is responsible for weight loss (something which the classical homeopaths have failed to mention as well)

Down below I will copy the posts by Karishma and Joe for all those surfing this forum, and draw their own conclusion about Nat Phos.

Karishma 11/10/05
“Joe,I started taking Nat phos 6x, 9days before and I take 2 tablets after breakfast, lunch and dinner. In addition to it I have stopped eating rice, chapati and sugar completly and walking regularly but I am so sorry to say that there is no change in my weight and in addition to that I feel so full and heavy all the time while lunch and dinner is just soup and salad.
Am I doing something wrong. I take two tablets within 5 mins of my finshing food.”

Karishma 12/10/05
“Joe, I never felt this full & heavy feeling before but one way it is good that it is keeping my craving to eat sugar away.
This is not the first time I have tried loosing weight and i was never succesful. One time in my yearly checkup my thyroid came low and in extensive tests it came normal. The only reason I could think is that I have low thyroid and that's why I dont loose weight while put on weight so easily. My energy level in general is very low and i get tired and irritated very soon, sometimes my hair start falling for months and skin color is little pale.
Can you suggest me something to improve my thyroid if there is no side effect of it. I have heard of kelp suppliment should I give it a try in addition to whatever I am trying?
Please help.”

Joe 12/10/05
“Thank you for informing me about your thyroid problem. It is obvious that this is the real cause of your weight problem and I regret that I cannot help you with homeopathic treatment as I have no experience in this regard.

I hope that other more experienced Homeopaths can help you.”


Karishma 27/10/05
“Joe, I tried taking Nat phos6x for 15 days and could not reduce me weight. Today I was reading bad effects of artificial sweetner under Carbonated Beverages/Artificial Sweeteners
and realized that I am taking 'EQUAL' for more than a year and use it three times a day for my 3 cups of tea. Could this be a culprit?
I love drinking tea but can not without sugar and dont want to eat sugar as well, which sweetner is safe?

Thanks”


From the above facts it is very hard to assume that NAT PHOS really help people to lose weight
sazim

Dear Mr Livera, aside from your obvious paranoia, and continual need for the use of personal diatribe when responding to posts, the above being no exception, what part of 'you didn't discover this' and 'it has appeared in many texts prior to 2004' are you not getting?

Also, regarding other claims you have made, when I first came here, I did so with an open mind regarding your 'system' and also took the time to look over some of your threads, but on presenting a counter argument of what had actually taken place, you reacted only with personal diatribe and self adulation, as you still do now. This makes it very difficult to have a proper scientific debate with you about anything.

If you truly have discovered a new 'system' then it should be able to stand up to scientific scrutiny, and you should be able to defended your argument without resorting to such things, when people question it's efficacy.

Re: the results posted on the thread you have made reference to, Sazim has given a very good analysis of this above, and I must agree, there is no overwhelming evidence of a general effect of inducing weightloss for this remedy, but if you have any more 'proof' that this is the case, I am sure we are all more than happy to look over this.

Nice work Sazim btw, saved me a long job ;)

Best wishes to all.


-Jacob.

And again, in all but a few cases, where patients may have required the remedies prescribed to begin with, as part of their constitution, you have provided no cure, only palliation, primarily because in most cases, you are not even using chronic remedies.

I would respectfully ask that if you study nothing else about Homoeopathy, you at least look into the difference between cure and palliation, so you may at least be able to see our point of view, because I am afraid, from the majority of your posts I have read, you do not seem to understand the difference.


-Jacob.