The ABC Homeopathy Forum
Question about homeopathy
I understand the basics of homeopathy. You take a substance and dilute it in water until nothing of the original substance remains.The water 'remembers' what the original substance was.
Water on earth has been here since before the dinosaurs. In that time it has cycled billions of times.
Over that time every drop of water would have at some point come in contact with every known substance on earth.
What makes the water 'forget' the previous substances it has been in contact with?
[message edited by tuxcomputers on Sat, 14 May 2011 14:14:40 BST]
tuxcomputers on 2011-05-14
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
I have found out from someone I know that the 'distilled' water is not just diluted but 'the remedy is also successed serially'.
Does that mean the distilling process causes the water to 'forget' the previous substances and the shaking imprints the memory of the water of the new substance?
Are there other processes that can make the water 'forget'?
Has boiling the water and comparing it to the distilled water been tried? What about freezing? What about putting it under intense pressure?
How does each process effect the memory of water and the compare to the distilled water?
Does that mean the distilling process causes the water to 'forget' the previous substances and the shaking imprints the memory of the water of the new substance?
Are there other processes that can make the water 'forget'?
Has boiling the water and comparing it to the distilled water been tried? What about freezing? What about putting it under intense pressure?
How does each process effect the memory of water and the compare to the distilled water?
tuxcomputers last decade
So shaking water has been observed to cause electons to jump valence shells?
Does that only apply to homeopathy or has it been detected and observed in labs?
Does that only apply to homeopathy or has it been detected and observed in labs?
tuxcomputers last decade
Well I remember from my school days that energy cannot be created or destroyed.
When this valence shell jumping occurs and the energy is emitted, what type of energy is it? Is it electromagnetic?
I am sure there are tests to demonstrate this. Would tests showing that shaking causes electrons to jump and emit energy silence the skeptics?
I just read a bit about Valence electrons, Hydrogen has one, Oxygen has 2. The one on the hydrogen is used to bond to a single oxygen atom. The 2 on the oxygen is used to bond to 2 hydrogen atoms.
What jumping is occuring? Do the bonds get broken attach to the substance, break again, and bond back into the original water molecule?
When jumping valence bonds I just learned that the energy emitted is photons (ie light). Does anyone see light emitted while preparing the remedies? If it is too low to see with the naked eye maybe some very sensitive equipment needs to be used to prove the valence jumping.
When this valence shell jumping occurs and the energy is emitted, what type of energy is it? Is it electromagnetic?
I am sure there are tests to demonstrate this. Would tests showing that shaking causes electrons to jump and emit energy silence the skeptics?
I just read a bit about Valence electrons, Hydrogen has one, Oxygen has 2. The one on the hydrogen is used to bond to a single oxygen atom. The 2 on the oxygen is used to bond to 2 hydrogen atoms.
What jumping is occuring? Do the bonds get broken attach to the substance, break again, and bond back into the original water molecule?
When jumping valence bonds I just learned that the energy emitted is photons (ie light). Does anyone see light emitted while preparing the remedies? If it is too low to see with the naked eye maybe some very sensitive equipment needs to be used to prove the valence jumping.
tuxcomputers last decade
Water appears to remember the last thing, and the most powerful thing, not everything. Succussion creates a powerful effect with water, and this causes it to remember only the substance being transformed into a remedy.
However, without alcohol, the water goes back to it original 'vibration' or takes on that of the immediate surroundings. Alchohol preserves the signature we implant into the water (medicine).
When the medicine is stored on milk sugar, it lasts even longer. I have seen medicines stored this way remain potent for over 100 years.
However, without alcohol, the water goes back to it original 'vibration' or takes on that of the immediate surroundings. Alchohol preserves the signature we implant into the water (medicine).
When the medicine is stored on milk sugar, it lasts even longer. I have seen medicines stored this way remain potent for over 100 years.
♡ brisbanehomoeopath last decade
Ok thanks for that but I have some other questions:
Off the top of my head I searched for 'Cold', I came across several remedies. The one I looked at (C-plus) had this listed:
Eupatorium Perfoliatum 2X, Euphrasia Officinalis 2X, Gelsemium Sempervirens 3X, Kali Iodatum 3X
Now I have no idea what those are, so how did they decide what to use for colds?
Do they test each ingredient on a group of patients and then compare one group against another to find the best ingredient to use?
Off the top of my head I searched for 'Cold', I came across several remedies. The one I looked at (C-plus) had this listed:
Eupatorium Perfoliatum 2X, Euphrasia Officinalis 2X, Gelsemium Sempervirens 3X, Kali Iodatum 3X
Now I have no idea what those are, so how did they decide what to use for colds?
Do they test each ingredient on a group of patients and then compare one group against another to find the best ingredient to use?
tuxcomputers last decade
Combination remedies created for common diseases based on the name of that disease, is not real homoeopathy. Someone in a pharmacy somewhere with little understanding of how homoeopathy works, came up with that to provide a product for shops to sell.
Avoid those kind of things. They get people into all sorts of trouble.
There are hundreds of common cold medicines, one must be chosen on the basis of the actual symptoms the patient has. If no symptoms are used, it is not homoeopathy - this is allopathy masquerading as homoeopathy in order to make money.
Avoid those kind of things. They get people into all sorts of trouble.
There are hundreds of common cold medicines, one must be chosen on the basis of the actual symptoms the patient has. If no symptoms are used, it is not homoeopathy - this is allopathy masquerading as homoeopathy in order to make money.
♡ brisbanehomoeopath last decade
Ok I get it, that is just a general shotgun product posing as a homeopathic remedy to make them money.
In real homeopathy you examine the patient and decide symptom X = treatment with substance Y
I am guessing that homeopaths have training and that there are books etc to assist you in deciding what treatment to use.
Same question as before in a different format.
How do they decide what substance to use for what symptom? Did they treat different groups of patients with different substances and compare them?
In real homeopathy you examine the patient and decide symptom X = treatment with substance Y
I am guessing that homeopaths have training and that there are books etc to assist you in deciding what treatment to use.
Same question as before in a different format.
How do they decide what substance to use for what symptom? Did they treat different groups of patients with different substances and compare them?
tuxcomputers last decade
Yes homoeopaths are trained at a tertiary level. In many countries you must be a Doctor to specialize in homoeopathy, although in some countries (like mine) the degree can be studied without pursuing an orthodox medical path.
The literature on homoeopathy is extenisve, as we have over 200 years of history. Most of that literature has been written by medical doctors who converted over to homoeopathy. We have computer programs and other systems to help us select medicines.
You should go to these sites to read up on homoeopathy if you are interested.
http://www.drluc.com/lecture-public.html
http://www.simillimum.com/index.php
Homoeopathy is a well respected science in many parts of the world. We have the support of royalty, and there are homoeopathic hospitals in places like London and Mumbai.
The literature on homoeopathy is extenisve, as we have over 200 years of history. Most of that literature has been written by medical doctors who converted over to homoeopathy. We have computer programs and other systems to help us select medicines.
You should go to these sites to read up on homoeopathy if you are interested.
http://www.drluc.com/lecture-public.html
http://www.simillimum.com/index.php
Homoeopathy is a well respected science in many parts of the world. We have the support of royalty, and there are homoeopathic hospitals in places like London and Mumbai.
♡ brisbanehomoeopath last decade
When you say it is a respected science do you mean there are large scale double (or triple) blinded replicated scientific studies published in reputable journals?
Can you link to some?
Saying your supported by royalty is worthless, the royalty used to believe the earth was flat. Look at how wrong they were.
Being popular is also worthless evidence, same reason as above, EVERYONE used to believe the earth was flat.
My question is still the same, how do they determine which substance treats which symptom.
[message edited by tuxcomputers on Tue, 17 May 2011 03:24:03 BST]
Can you link to some?
Saying your supported by royalty is worthless, the royalty used to believe the earth was flat. Look at how wrong they were.
Being popular is also worthless evidence, same reason as above, EVERYONE used to believe the earth was flat.
My question is still the same, how do they determine which substance treats which symptom.
[message edited by tuxcomputers on Tue, 17 May 2011 03:24:03 BST]
tuxcomputers last decade
Go to the links I gave you. David Little especially is highly respected as an educator in homoeopathy.
All of our medicines are tested with the double blind protocols. Provings as they are called, are where medicines are given to healthy people, and all symptoms are carefully recorded in detail over a period of time. These results are collated and the results are put into our materia medicas and repertories. When a patient presents with those same symptoms, we give them the medicine that has produced those symptoms in our trials.
The British Royal Family was put under the care of homoeopaths over 100 years ago because we were so successful at treating acute epidemics like typhoid. They have remained loyal to homoeopathy up until this day, although I have no idea where the two young princes loyalties lie.Their backing has allowed the homoeopathic hospital in London to remain open despite the opposition of orthodox doctors and pharamceutical medicine.
And I didn't say popular, I said respected. There is a difference.
Go read up on it. I have lectured in homoeopathy for 7 years, there is no way I can type out enough information to satisfy you I suspect :)
David Kempson
Professional Homoeopath
All of our medicines are tested with the double blind protocols. Provings as they are called, are where medicines are given to healthy people, and all symptoms are carefully recorded in detail over a period of time. These results are collated and the results are put into our materia medicas and repertories. When a patient presents with those same symptoms, we give them the medicine that has produced those symptoms in our trials.
The British Royal Family was put under the care of homoeopaths over 100 years ago because we were so successful at treating acute epidemics like typhoid. They have remained loyal to homoeopathy up until this day, although I have no idea where the two young princes loyalties lie.Their backing has allowed the homoeopathic hospital in London to remain open despite the opposition of orthodox doctors and pharamceutical medicine.
And I didn't say popular, I said respected. There is a difference.
Go read up on it. I have lectured in homoeopathy for 7 years, there is no way I can type out enough information to satisfy you I suspect :)
David Kempson
Professional Homoeopath
♡ brisbanehomoeopath last decade
Actually, this might be something you are hoping to see.
http://knol.google.com/k/scientific-research-in-homeopathy#
http://knol.google.com/k/scientific-research-in-homeopathy#
♡ brisbanehomoeopath last decade
This may be related to some of your questions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41gmYPzEIWY
There are also some more detailed videos of Prof. Rustum Roy discussing the science of homeopathy available on the net.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41gmYPzEIWY
There are also some more detailed videos of Prof. Rustum Roy discussing the science of homeopathy available on the net.
♡ Homeopathy International 1 last decade
Please stop with the royal family support thing, as I said it's useless as evidence.
You have me confused, why would you give medicines to healthy people? Do the treatments CAUSE symptoms as well as cure them?
How do you decide the dose strength? Why not just dilute the substance until you reach the point where there is not a single molecule of the original substance left? I believe that is called Avogadro's constant, going past that point seems, well pointless.
Do you do it to dilute the memory of the water?
You have me confused, why would you give medicines to healthy people? Do the treatments CAUSE symptoms as well as cure them?
How do you decide the dose strength? Why not just dilute the substance until you reach the point where there is not a single molecule of the original substance left? I believe that is called Avogadro's constant, going past that point seems, well pointless.
Do you do it to dilute the memory of the water?
tuxcomputers last decade
You seem somewhat antagonisic and sceptical. I am not really interested in having an argument with a sceptic on the forum here.
I have given you some links. Go do your research if you are seriously interested.
I have given you some links. Go do your research if you are seriously interested.
♡ brisbanehomoeopath last decade
I am not arguing, I am asking questions, basic questions, about how it works. Like for example, how did they decide that substance X fix symptom Y?
I sort of got the idea that if substance X causes symptom Y in a healthy person then a dilution of X will cure a sick person of symptom Y.
I myself have no problem with bees, sure it hurts, however I know someone that will die if they are stung.
How did they decide what was a general average reaction to substance X and not a highly individual one?
How large was the sample size? Did it include different races and populations? How do you continue to expand the knowledge base of homeopathy?
I sort of got the idea that if substance X causes symptom Y in a healthy person then a dilution of X will cure a sick person of symptom Y.
I myself have no problem with bees, sure it hurts, however I know someone that will die if they are stung.
How did they decide what was a general average reaction to substance X and not a highly individual one?
How large was the sample size? Did it include different races and populations? How do you continue to expand the knowledge base of homeopathy?
tuxcomputers last decade
Are you saying it works because god wants it to work and there is nothing we can do to actually *prove* it works? I thought this was supposed to be medicine.
I read about the start of homeopathy, it was in a time when they still believed in the four humours, (blood, bile etc). If you went to a doctor you were more likely to die than if you did nothing.
Taking a sugar pill (or water) than had no active ingredient what so ever would be more effective than a moron cutting you to let blood out (or some other stupid procedure).
In that 200 years or so the advances in information about the human body have been staggering.
You still cling to an idea that was created when medicine was in the dark ages. There are many many studies that show the magical thinking of a substance imparting a memory into water is pure bunk.
Saying it is the genius of god (which god by the way, is it Zeus?) is not science, it's supernatural. Your no better than faith healers.
We can measure particles that have never been seen but there is no way we can measure the 'vibrations' of water memory. Is that why you invoke god as the explanation? Is he watching and every time anyone tries to measure these 'vibrations' with any instrument he turns them off?
There are real people with real medical problems on this forum, go see a real doctor that has real proof that what he gives you actually works. Stop asking some witch doctor with knowledge from before there was scientific medicine that promotes god and magic to cure what ails you.
I read about the start of homeopathy, it was in a time when they still believed in the four humours, (blood, bile etc). If you went to a doctor you were more likely to die than if you did nothing.
Taking a sugar pill (or water) than had no active ingredient what so ever would be more effective than a moron cutting you to let blood out (or some other stupid procedure).
In that 200 years or so the advances in information about the human body have been staggering.
You still cling to an idea that was created when medicine was in the dark ages. There are many many studies that show the magical thinking of a substance imparting a memory into water is pure bunk.
Saying it is the genius of god (which god by the way, is it Zeus?) is not science, it's supernatural. Your no better than faith healers.
We can measure particles that have never been seen but there is no way we can measure the 'vibrations' of water memory. Is that why you invoke god as the explanation? Is he watching and every time anyone tries to measure these 'vibrations' with any instrument he turns them off?
There are real people with real medical problems on this forum, go see a real doctor that has real proof that what he gives you actually works. Stop asking some witch doctor with knowledge from before there was scientific medicine that promotes god and magic to cure what ails you.
tuxcomputers last decade
You post about the silica makes no sense. Homeopathy dilutes the substance to the point that there is no trace of the substance left. How does a detectable amount of silica become homepathic?
A 30C dilution would be the same as a single sheet of paper in a stack that stretched to the sun and back 400 million times, that is untraceable.
Under your idea of similimum it would have to mean that silica CAUSES scars to appear on a healthy person for it to CURE scars on someone that has them. I have heard of no evidence that silica causes such an effect.
[message edited by tuxcomputers on Fri, 20 May 2011 08:33:43 BST]
A 30C dilution would be the same as a single sheet of paper in a stack that stretched to the sun and back 400 million times, that is untraceable.
Under your idea of similimum it would have to mean that silica CAUSES scars to appear on a healthy person for it to CURE scars on someone that has them. I have heard of no evidence that silica causes such an effect.
[message edited by tuxcomputers on Fri, 20 May 2011 08:33:43 BST]
tuxcomputers last decade
Wait wait wait... what imparted the memory to the water? It has to be shaken 10 times right for the magic to work.
Was the camping trip in Japan in the time and vicinity of the earth quake? Was the silica shaken each time it was diluted to 1%?
Man that must have been one fluke of creating a whole lake of healing water... then again it was just anecdotal so it is almost worthless.
Was the camping trip in Japan in the time and vicinity of the earth quake? Was the silica shaken each time it was diluted to 1%?
Man that must have been one fluke of creating a whole lake of healing water... then again it was just anecdotal so it is almost worthless.
tuxcomputers last decade
Ok yeah a sample size of one would be a fantastical way of basing a whole entire field of medicine on... oh wait that is what Hahnemann did so I guess it would get a bunch of followers.
News flash.... man forgets to take homeopathy remedy... dies of overdose.
News flash.... man forgets to take homeopathy remedy... dies of overdose.
tuxcomputers last decade
tuxcomputers last decade
No science is not about beliefs at all. It is about facts, evidence and proof that something actually works, homeopathy has none of those.
Homeopathy does however have miasms, similars, vital forces, succussion and water memory. None of which have been proven EVER.
I know that you have way way too much invested in your magical thinking for me to change it but I'm bored and you are a fun thing to play with.
Homeopathy does however have miasms, similars, vital forces, succussion and water memory. None of which have been proven EVER.
I know that you have way way too much invested in your magical thinking for me to change it but I'm bored and you are a fun thing to play with.
tuxcomputers last decade
When you say high potency do you mean something around the 30C mark?
You realise at that level I would have to shallow a billion times the mass of the earth to get even a single molecule of the original substance.
Real potent that one, I have no fear... although doing that many sugar pills I would be at risk of obesity and diabetes.
You realise at that level I would have to shallow a billion times the mass of the earth to get even a single molecule of the original substance.
Real potent that one, I have no fear... although doing that many sugar pills I would be at risk of obesity and diabetes.
tuxcomputers last decade
Religion is believing without evidence, science has the evidence. How your mind can't grasp the difference... well, sorry no-one can help you.
They never will have the tools to measure everything in the universe, so what.
They can however measure if a claimed medicine has any real effect on a human body.
They might not know HOW it works but they can be 100% sure IF it works.
There are many many products on the market that they only have a vague idea of HOW it works but they are dam sure it DOES work. Anti-depressants are one example.
They have also repeatedly shown that homeopathy does NOT work.
Despite your claim I am not closed minded, show me evidence that it does work and I will start taking it.
Real evidence, not anecdotal.
They never will have the tools to measure everything in the universe, so what.
They can however measure if a claimed medicine has any real effect on a human body.
They might not know HOW it works but they can be 100% sure IF it works.
There are many many products on the market that they only have a vague idea of HOW it works but they are dam sure it DOES work. Anti-depressants are one example.
They have also repeatedly shown that homeopathy does NOT work.
Despite your claim I am not closed minded, show me evidence that it does work and I will start taking it.
Real evidence, not anecdotal.
tuxcomputers last decade
To post a reply, you must first LOG ON or Register
Important
Information given in this forum is given by way of exchange of views only, and those views are not necessarily those of ABC Homeopathy. It is not to be treated as a medical diagnosis or prescription, and should not be used as a substitute for a consultation with a qualified homeopath or physician. It is possible that advice given here may be dangerous, and you should make your own checks that it is safe. If symptoms persist, seek professional medical attention. Bear in mind that even minor symptoms can be a sign of a more serious underlying condition, and a timely diagnosis by your doctor could save your life.