≡ ▼
ABC Homeopathy Forum

 

The ABC Homeopathy Forum

"Danger" can we discus?

written by Dr William.E.Thomas MD

TOXICITY
Homeopathic medicines are drawn from animal, vegetable, or mineral kingdoms. Many substances which homeopathy is using are either:


Potentially toxic

Non-effective because they are non-specific

May delay lifesaving treatment

Represent danger of spreading infections

The HOMEOPATHIC PHARMACOPOEIA of the United States of America (1985 Edition) is listing the following substances for treatment, amongst many similar:

Pediculus Capitis - the head louse
Cimex Lectularis - the bed-bug
Coccinella Septempunctata - the Ladybird
Lac Felinum - cat's milk
Lager beer - etc.

Apis Mellifica - the honey bee, is prepared for homeopathic purposes as follows: the live bees are placed in a clear bottle which is shaken to irritate the bees, and a mixture of glycerin, distilled water, and alcohol is poured into the bottle. The bees are left for ten days in the mixture to soak. From this mixture then the homeopathic remedy is prepared. The dilution of that mixture is recommended by homeopaths for acute allergic swelling of the respiratory tract. If the patient chooses to follow this advice, he or she may die.
Source drugs, the MOTHER TINCTURES, are toxic in many cases, as the following example from the year 1884 testifies: Dr.Gunst in Melbourne then prescribed a homeopathic medicine and the chemist dispensed a concentrated Mother Tincture. The patient died.[1]

On the other hand dilutions over the Avogadro's Number, (6.02 x 10²³), i.e. over the 24 X (decimal) or 12 C (centesimal) dilutions, do not contain one single molecule of the original substance used. Such homeopathic preparations are either pure water, or alcohol-water mixture, or - if pulverized - lactose powder only.

Homeopathy generally operates on the fringe of the scale of medicinal doses, in the ineffective zone. However homeopathy does no longer call itself the 'fringe' medicine. Nowadays they use the term 'complementary' medicine, which is a respectable expression. Even the previous name 'alternative' medicine sounded better, implicating an alternative of two equal things. Fringe means the outer limit of medicine.

EFFICACY

The homeopathic idea of using substances in extreme dilutions is connected with the PLACEBO EFFECT.

A PLACEBO is a medicine that is given to please a patient, not by any pharmacological action it may have, but by psychological means. It is a vehicle for cure by suggestion.

One of sure signs of placebo effect is the absence of side effects, and the safe use on infants. Both are claimed by homeopaths.

MODE OF ACTION

Over the past two hundred years almost all scientific and pharmacological discoveries have been tried by homeopaths in an attempt to explain how the homeopathically prepared small doses work.

PHYSICS:


Heat theory - transformation of labour into heat by fast movements (succussion, trituration), does not explain the homeopathic claim of healing power.

Electricity - there are no electric or magnetic forces which would originate during the process of trituration or succussion.

Arndt-Schultz law, which stipulates that every drug has stimulating effect in small doses, while in large doses, inhibits, and much larger doses are lethal. Homeopathy claims efficacy in dilutions over Avogadro's number, therefore the Arndt-Schultz law is irrelevant in this regard.

Brownian motion of molecules - is a biological phenomenon that does not bring any specific healing power by repeated dilutions and succussions.

Electro-magnetic fields do not give homeopathic dilutions any healing power.

Polymer chains of giant molecular aggregates do not cause transfer of any healing energy.

Nuclear magnetic resonance tests used in homeopathic dilutions have only shown increased Brownian motion of molecules.

The technique of Dielectric Index measuring used on microdilutions showed only the existence of known laws of physics.

BIOLOGY:
Homeopathy incorrectly claims physiological or medical commonly known facts in support of its theory:


The action of Cobra venom on kitten heart; the action of adrenaline on cardiac output - these are examples of specific target organs effects of small doses. Specific minuscule amounts of a substance affect only the target organ equipped with appropriate receptors. The substance affects no other place in the body. Elementary experiments like these students of medicine perform in their first and second years of medical school training.

Stages of anesthesia - also are examples of target organ effect, this time of the human brain and subcortical centers.

Mercuric chloride and its effect on the growth rate of lymphoblasts, activity of the enzyme diastase - experiments curiously reported only in homeopathic journals.

Silver nitrate used on the growth of wheat seedlings - there is no connection with homeopathic doctrine in the first place, and secondly it shows only the oligodynamic effect of heavy metals on living organisms, a fact known to biological sciences.

The attempt to replace the imaginary concept of Vital Force in homeopathy with enzymes comes from the 1985 submission on homeopathic medicines to the Victorian Parliament by Martin & Pleasance Wholesalers of homeopathic products in Melbourne (in the state of Victoria, Australia).

The proposed water polymer concept in homeopathic preparations - that molecules of an active substance make an imprint on molecules of water - fails to document any measurable healing energy transferred through the water molecules in diluted homeopathic solutions.

The tendency of presenting current discoveries of science and pharmacology in support of homeopathy, whilst they are quite irrelevant and in fact do not support homeopathy, to the lay public who are in no position to form an opinion on it, is typical for this doctrine. There is no scientific evidence supporting the action of homeopathic medicaments.
During the existence of homeopathy the medical sciences have experienced the discoveries and acceptance of asepsis, antisepsis, anesthesia and antibiotics, which revolutionized the lives of us all.

I just read it....
Sheena
 
  Seena on 2006-12-30
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
What is your opinion, Sheena?
 
ZepOz last decade
I want to generate my opinion, based on others views and discussions.
Sheena
 
Seena last decade
You have provided most of the information here, and I gather you have done other research as well. I think that will allow you to have an opinion here! I'd like to know it...
 
ZepOz last decade
My opinion is that this doctor has an alternative motive for writing this piece. How can such a smart individual be so blind to all the miracles homeopathy has brought to people worldwide.
Zep Oz what are your thoughts on homeopathy? Many on here are curious.
 
Ryelink last decade
Well. It is obvious from his posts. He doesn't believe it.

Any way, let us hear from the horse's mouth. : )

Murthy
 
gavinimurthy last decade
Yes ZepOz, They talk about 'energy' but where can you infer it. That's not potential enenrgy energy, for sure. If they are using the scientific word 'energy' it must be some form that surely can be shown. How can energy to cure come from 'dilution'? From hand shake? Then just shake water, no need for any ingredient. If they are talking of the ingredient 'present' in super dilution form or memory, then water has memories of all the substances ever present on the earth. Even the negative ones in their theory. Still, how can they prove all this? Not by science anyway. The only word matching is 'magic'. Then placebo has more magic...
Sheena
 
Seena last decade
If one is actually trying to say, that dilution or super-dilution by succussion, trituration, bring about a curing energy, then which 'substance' medicin you diluted wouldn't matter. The substance is not present anyway, there.

What's all this `Homeopathic Research' done by supposed to be scholars? Could they prove anything more than placebo effect? If scientific proof is not what you are looking for, why dou you call it research?



Sheena
 
Seena last decade
Ryelink,

What do you think this doctor's alternative motive is in writing this piece? Is the author actually mistaken in his facts? If not, do you think he has drawn the wrong conclusions from them? Please discuss.

Murthy,

Now you are calling me a horse. So who is being rude now...
 
ZepOz last decade
Hi Zep

I am sorry if you felt offended. I think idiomatic usage does exist in English.

*********



Straight from the horse's mouth

Meaning

From the highest authority.

Origin

In horse racing circles tips on which horse is a likely winner circulate amongst punters. The most trusted authorities are considered to be those in closest touch with the recent form of the horse, i.e. stable lads, trainers etc. The notional 'from the horse's mouth' is supposed to indicate one step better than even that inner circle, i.e. the horse itself.

It is a 20th century phrase. The earliest printed version I can find of it is in an piece by P. G. (Pelham Grenville) Wodehouse in The Strand Magazine, 1928:

'The prospect of getting the true facts - straight, as it were, from the horse's mouth - held him fascinated.'

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/336400.html

**********

Murthy
 
gavinimurthy last decade
Sheena,

Thank you for your opinion. Does anyone else want to comment?

Murthy,

At least you did not refer to the other end of the horse.
 
ZepOz last decade
Every 'Homeopath' here wants to belive and make others belive this 'energy theory' on how Homeopathy works. Just because it worked for someone. It could have worked due to several reasons, like, say like a placebo, or belief, or stopped other medications or even continued other medications or by its own. After all, body has a tendency to cure on its own if doubts are alleviated. If you can't explain how, why do you bring out this 'energy theory'. You say, you don't belive in Modern Science. But you sill use science and acientific terms to explain this theory.

Funny, that many 'Homeopaths' who jump in to prescribe at any ones plea for help and stated that they are not qualified, have kept quite on this. Wonder what was the basis of their assumptions.

Sheena
 
Seena last decade
The basis is that it works.
 
Daisy43 last decade
Seena-

I tried everything from drugs to herbs for eczema in my life, nothing worked very well. I didn't try homeopathy for a long time because I assumed it was only placebo. I tried out of desperation, not believing in it. and it worked. if placebo was going to work for me, it would have worked in some of the dozens of other treatments I tried... and besides, I assumed homeopathy would fail when i tried it. best yet, it helped my health in ways I did not expect or even consider. so, just because science hasn't figured something out yet, does not me it is impossible.

here is a link of interest:
http://www.mercola.com/2003/jun/28/homeopathy.htm

John
 
john34 last decade
I started this link for attracting some healthy discussions on the 'subject' so that many of us can arrive at valuable opinions. I quoted Dr. William E. Thomas, M.D. who is a practicing physician in Melbourne, Australia. He is a specialist in Internal Medicine and holds a scientific degree/PhD in History of Medicine. Some of his many publications are: 'From what Disease did the Pharaoh Akhenaten Suffer?' (Current Problems in History of Medicine, Basel-New York 1966); 'Dr. Johann Hunczovsky, Surgeon 1752-1798' (Wellcome Library/Hist.Med. The Wellcome Trust, London 2003); 'Les Quintuples aux Pays Tcheques' (A.Gen.Me.Ge. Vol.XII-N.4 1963); 'Karl May (1842-1912) Body and Mind' (BookSurge 2005).

I didn't quote Dr. Stephen Barrett, M.D. or 'Lancet' though I mentioned it somewhere. Those interested may go to 'search engine' say google and seach with 'key words' say 'Lancet on Homeopathy' etc. It would give the 'other side' of it, also, like how flawed can be 'Lancet ' on its findings etc.
 
Seena last decade
Many of the unqualified and qualified homeopaths who jump in to help people have kept away from this thread because they would rather save their energies for helping people.There is not much to discuss with non-believers in homeopathy because nothing will ever shake an opinion that is formed even before the discussions have started.Homeopathy is more suitably proved by taking the medicine for an illness which really exists rather than through these hollow debates.

Happy New Year to both of you.

Rajiv
 
rajivprasad last decade
Know...to whom ignorance is bliss...
Sheena
 
Seena last decade
Indeed ..... Ignorance is bliss!! May the sceptics enjoy their bliss while it lasts.

Rajiv
 
rajivprasad last decade
Thanks, Rajiv, we will.
 
ZepOz last decade
So, you confirm that you are a sceptic.Your hand waving joke to make a plane land as equivalent to homeopathic remedy taking did not leave any doubt.But then if i concluded that you are a sceptic from that joke, you would accuse me of mind reading.But it is good that you now frankly admit that you are a sceptic.So now people would know where you are coming from.

Welcome to the forum from a 'believer' and 'user' of homeopathy for many years.

Rajiv
 
rajivprasad last decade
Ryelink,

What do you think this doctor's alternative motive is in writing this piece? Is the author actually mistaken in his facts? If not, do you think he has drawn the wrong conclusions from them? Please discuss.


Zep Oz,

I have no idea what his motive for trying to dispell Homeopathy is. Im not even sure whether his facts are true or not.
I wonder, have you ever tried homeopathy or are you unwilling because it just doesnt make sense to you?

If you and your skeptic friends are so smart then how would you explain homeopathy working on pets or children.

Quick story, my son was having constant ear infections and febril seizures. Western medicine had no answers for him other than to put tubes in his ears. I took him to a homeopath who gave my son a remedy for his ears. He immediately stopped having ear infections and his seizures. That was all the proof I needed about Homeopathy. Should I have waited for science to finally believe in this form of treatment before I pursued it? What would I have gained?

So when your colleague writes that'Non-effective because they are non-specific ' it makes me shake my head.

Just because something cannot be proved by science or does not seem to make sense, does not mean that it is not true. You have to be able to understand this.

Scientists are proving things all the time, does this mean they are untrue until proven or rather just yet to be proven?

Are you telling me that all the practicing homeopaths in the history of the world are all making this stuff up or just believing in a placebo?
I thought scientists were supposed to be smart.

Id rather be healthy then blind. Take your blinders off.
 
Ryelink last decade
If Homeopathy works as a placebo on children (particularly babies) and animals, then skeptics have a much bigger fish to fry, IMO. ;)
 
josiewales last decade
The placebo argument made with respect to our pets is that they know we are trying to help them so they want to show us they feel better. But my pets aren't like that. If they don't feel well they want to hide from me and be left alone.
 
Daisy43 last decade
My dog scratched non stop for a month. One dose of Sulphur and she stopped within a day. If she was trying to please me she would have realized she was pis.sing me off when I kept kicking her off the end of the bed every night for keeping us awake.

Its so blatently obvious I cant figure out how people dont believe. People that need proof for everything must be insufferable to live or deal with.

Same skeptics that worry about the harm of homeopathy are dosing their kids in bug repellant and filling them up with antibiotics. Well, I guess its never been proven that antibiotics are bad for you, not like a single drop of Arnica Juice diluted in a pail of water would be.
 
Ryelink last decade
Rajiv,

If you had done ANY research at all, you would have seen that one of the first posts I made on this forum was to confirm that:

(1) I was not hiding my identity, and

(2) I was indeed a regular poster on the JREF forum, and

(3) I was NOT going to say anything negative at all about homeopathy here on this forum. Ever.

And if you had done your research properly you would have seen that this is EXACTLY what I have done. Not one single negative comment about homeopathy or homeopaths here at all, ever. And I never will.

Do you think you can prove me wrong on that? I don't think so...

So why are you being so rude to me, and encouraging others to be rude also? Surely this is your grand opportunity to try to convince me of my so-called error of my ways. And it's a whole forum full of homeopaths, and just one (maybe two) sceptics, and I'm the one that isn't trying to fight back or convince you of anything - I'm just being nice and polite and asking questions. And yet you rant and rage like I'm some sort of terrible evil spirit come to harm everyone! Oh dear - are your convictions SO weak that I am that scary to you? You can answer that question yourself...

Oh, and by the way, please calm down enough to go back and consider my 'silly' question seriously for a bit. Give it some critical thought, perhaps?
 
ZepOz last decade
Ryelink said:

'I have no idea what his motive for trying to dispell Homeopathy is. Im not even sure whether his facts are true or not.'

Then perhaps you might care to resolve that situation before commenting further?

As for the rest of your posts, this topic is not about me at all, it's about the opening post.
 
ZepOz last decade

Post ReplyTo post a reply, you must first LOG ON or Register

 

Important
Information given in this forum is given by way of exchange of views only, and those views are not necessarily those of ABC Homeopathy. It is not to be treated as a medical diagnosis or prescription, and should not be used as a substitute for a consultation with a qualified homeopath or physician. It is possible that advice given here may be dangerous, and you should make your own checks that it is safe. If symptoms persist, seek professional medical attention. Bear in mind that even minor symptoms can be a sign of a more serious underlying condition, and a timely diagnosis by your doctor could save your life.