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Why?

If homeopathic principles are so good and simple then why don't they cure hepatitis, HIV, diabetes...

Homeopathic remedies have never passed a scientific test. Water memory has been intensely tested. To be short water memory doesn't exist.

I believe that all of us will be better on conventional drugs.

Can someone prove otherwise?
 
  victorqedu on 2013-12-05
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Homeopathy has cured Aids, Hepatitis and diabetes,
not easy things btw, due to the skill of the homeopath
and having to take each person as a individual and
finding the remedy for them.

Look up Jeremy Scherr's site on Aids treatment and
cases being done by him in Africa, treating the poor
for free.

Look at this link on water vibration by French scientists-http://www.futurevisions.org/health_light_vibrationproof.htm....

There was another article recently in the news by a French
nobel prize winner- his name starts with M, I cannot find the link
right now, but he has done recent experiments diluting substances
and finding the ' vibrational Signature' of that substance is
still showing up and can be detected with instruments at high
dilution levels. He is not a homeopath.

The Swiss government is now covering homeopathic care for
its citizens bc they have done research and believe it works,
and the Swiss research and their decision to do this is very
respected.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-ullman/homeopathic-medici....
 
simone717 last decade
The french that winned a Nobel prize for the memory of water is Jacques Benveniste (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Benveniste).

To be exact he winned a LG Nobel prize, a funny version of the real Nobel. He got this prize after failing to prove that water has memory to James Randi an loosing 1 million dollars that he could win if water had any memory. Randi still offers the million but noone can take it. I wonder why. :)
Article on water vibration has nothing to do with science.

I can't find any information that Jeremy Scherr cured AIDS. It seems it has a homeopathic project for AIDS in Africa. But if he had a cure it would be rich and AIDS would be history.


About the Swiss government this is exactly what they sad: 'From a conventional, scientific perspective, there is no plausible mechanism for homeopathy. […]
The efficacy analyzed in the literature leads to a negative result in the meta-analysis of placebo controlled studies.'
So when the Swiss government analyzed homeopathic remedies they concluded that placebo = homeopathy. :))
neutral-swiss-homeopat..." rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.zenosblog.com/2012/05/that-neutral-swiss-homeopat....

So we have 2 options
1. Give real medicine to pacients.
2. Give placebo(homeopathy) to pacients
What is better?
[message edited by victorqedu on Sat, 07 Dec 2013 19:45:42 GMT]
 
victorqedu last decade
The French nobel prize winner I referred to has a last name
starting with M. He was doing experiments on how long substances
could be detected in volumes of water.

Homeopathy is not placebo. It works on babies and animals who
have no idea they are taking anything. If the remedy is right it
has effect, if wrong there is no cure. You do not understand homeopathy
basics, as there is no remedy that is a 'cure' for a disease. The remedy is
unique to the person and stimulates your immune system into being
strong enough to take care of the disease.

Good luck with your allopathic medicines, I hope they take
care of everything for you with no problems.
[message edited by simone717 on Sat, 07 Dec 2013 20:41:27 GMT]
 
simone717 last decade
Simone don't waste your time here. I have learnt never to reply to such posters as its useless.
 
fitness last decade
Yes, I agree, I am done with my last post,
but at the start it sounded like perhaps it
was a real inquiry instead of a prove it to me
debate.
 
simone717 last decade
I can't find the french Nobel prize winner that sustains a homeopathy principle.
Please give some details.
It seems important for homeopaths to sustain this cause or maybe change your point of view.

You say that homeopathy works on babies and animals, but placebo has been observed on animals and the effect on babies can be subjective because of the observer since no controlled studies have been done.
And there are a lot of spontaneous remissions, not everyone needs treatment.
In the case of regular viral flu you need about a week for the immune system to produce the right antibodies.
If in that time you take a homeopathic remedy this doesn't mean it cured you.

And there are no such things as overdoses, just water, some recipients for pills....
The short movie proves this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U
Every drug that has an effect can be overdosed. Homeopathy remedies have no overdose.
This is weird.

In the end you suggest that homeopathic remedies work at patient level, not at disease level.
Is there any prove of that statement?

And there are no conclusive studies that indicate that homeopathy works.
But there are a lot of studies that prove that it doesn't work.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_homeopathy

To conclude I would be glad if such a simple solution would exist for all our medical problems.
Is immoral to delay a known, real,classic, efficient treatment in favor of a homeopathic remedy with no observed effect.
People renounce their last chance to life for a fake remedy.
http://doubtfulnews.com/2012/08/u-k-man-dead-from-choosing-h....
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/death-by-homeop....
 
victorqedu last decade
I found the article, Dr. Luc Montagnier, the French Nobel Prize Winner
who won in 2008 for Discovering the Aids virus says that
water like liquid crystals actually changes 'structure' and he has
been able to identify electromagnetic signals from certain RNA and
DNA in highly diluted water.

Here is the link- I don't have any more time to discuss , especially as you have not taken the time to learn even the basics of homeopathy, ie. it treats the person, not the disease and yes there is overdosing with remedies, etc..http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-ullman/luc-montagnier-hom.... direct your doubts to
the real scientists listed in the article, they may not answer you, as they are too busy discovering things, like an
old quote from George Bernard Shaw, 'People who say it
cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it'.
[message edited by simone717 on Sun, 08 Dec 2013 19:14:29 GMT]
 
simone717 last decade
Thank you for the article about the Nobel prize winner.
I read it and I also read the report of Luc Montagnier - 'Electromagnetic Signals Are Produced by Aqueous Nanostructures Derived from Bacterial DNA Sequences' from here http://www.homeopathyeurope.org/media/news/MontagnierElectro....

The interesting thing about this report is that it is completly against homeopathy for 3 big reasons:
1) Quote from the report: 'The first low dilutions were usually negative, showing the background noise only. Positive signals were usually obtained at dilutions ranging from 10^5 to 10^8 or 10^12. Higher dilutions were again negative'.

This means that Luc Montagnier concluded that many of the homeopathic remedies have no effect since most dilutions are below or above this range.

2) And most important he concluded that potency doesn't increase with dilution.

3) Another quote from the report 'We have studied the decay with time of the capacity of dilutions for emitting EMS, after they have been removed (in mumetal boxes) from exposure to the excitation by the background. This capacity lasts at least several hours, some time up to 48 hours, indicating the relative stability of the nanostructures'.

This means that almost all the homeopathic remedies are useles. In 48 hours they expire at best. :)

I hope this convinced you of how wrong homeopathy is in the eye of Luc Montagnier.
He is not a believer and his work is far from being proved.

Anyway an antibody can't be produced from an electromagnetic imprint. At least not by drinking it.
I don't try to interrupt, I just try to make you realize how wrong you are.
If there is an overdose that is from the excipients added to the homeopathic 'remedies'.
 
victorqedu last decade
Your conclusions are flawed, due to your lack of knowledge about homeopathy-even if a remedy expired in 48 hours
if it was right it will stimulate your own life force into action
to clear the problem- your own body does the work for you, which is
why in many cases you only take the remedy a few times or even
once and have an ongoing healing process. Why don't you try it
yourself, next time you get a bruise, put some Arnica homeopathic
cream on it. You can feel it, you can see that your bruise will disappear
in a short amount of time. Arnica is sold out in all the usa drug stores
all the time- Why? because it works whether you think it will or not-you
can do your own 'experiment'.

He actually said this about his report-He was also questioned on his beliefs about homeopathy, to which he replied: 'I can’t say that homeopathy is right in everything. What I can say now is that the high dilutions are right. High dilutions of something are not nothing. They are water structures which mimic the original molecules.' He did admit that he wasn't working with the very high dilution levels normally used in homeopathy: 'We find that with DNA, we cannot work at the extremely high dilutions used in homeopathy; we cannot go further than a 10−18 dilution, or we lose the signal. But even at 10−18, you can calculate that there is not a single molecule of DNA left. And yet we detect a signal.'[31]-

These are his own words, not your 'conclusions' .

I really am 'done' now.
 
simone717 last decade
Can you give me any detail of cured cases of diabeties , aids etc in Allopathic medicine.
 
libra981 last decade
Well libra, I can't give you no such cases of miraculous cures of Aids or diabetes in classic medical history.
But classical medicine doesn't have a principle such as 'like cures like'. In other words classical medicine doesn't claim that it can cure these diseases. Homeopathy does claim it can do it.
Homeopathy has one principle that says treat 'like with like'.
So according to homeopathy principles:
- if you give diluted HIV to a seek person it will be cured(or at least will have diminished symptoms)
- if you give diluted sugar to a person with diabetes it will be cured(or at least will have diminished symptoms)

So classical medicine is not in contradiction here because it doesn't have a principle that affirms that it will cure AIDS or diabetes(it can only treat them).
Homeopathy principles on the other hand are in contradiction because if principle treat 'like with like' is valid than we should at least be able to treat AIDS and diabetes symptoms. You may realize by now that homeopathy can't cure and can't threat diseases.

Do you know any well documented cases of people with AIDS that were treated with homeopathy and live?
You can see that I only ask for treatment not for a cure.


Simone, you slowly start to agree with me.
In the homeopathic potion expires in 48 hours than there is nothing left to stimulate pe body to recover.
You must see that by expiration Luc Montagnier says that there is no more memory in the water.
Without water memory homeopathy doesn't work(acording to homeopathy principle).

You say that Luc Montagner affirmed that he 'isn't working with the very high dilution levels normally used in homeopathy'.
Whel in his paper he affirmed that he tried to work with such high dilution but the effect was null.
Also you said that over 10^18 nothing is detected but can be calculated(only by Luc Montagner I guess).
If nothing is detected nothing worthless exists there.

I used homeopathyc potin on a viral flu. The effect was exactly what I expected: nothing.
When you say 'if it was right it will stimulate your own life force into action to clear the problem' you actualy describe a placebo effect but you don't realize it. :)
You admitted already there is no memory of water in 48 hours old remedies and still you insist the potion is working.
How? A miracle? Obviously is a placebo.

You should try to take Randi prize. If you are right you will be a millionare.
You can apply here:
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

I hope you take the challange so we can clear a long lived debate: science against pseudoscience.

Success
[message edited by victorqedu on Mon, 09 Dec 2013 16:14:39 GMT]
[message edited by victorqedu on Sat, 14 Dec 2013 07:35:00 GMT]
 
victorqedu last decade
Real medicine actually cured HIV this year:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/two-men-cured-of-hiv-no-longer-t...
Can homeopathy do something even remotely close?
 
victorqedu last decade
Do not be subjective in appreciating this matter.

We are only tryng to find the truth.

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victorqedu last decade

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