The ABC Homeopathy Forum
Types of aggravations
As per David Little,there are four types of aggravations.1)Similar aggravation:
It is an increase of symptoms,the patient already suffers.It could be, because,
a)either the dose is too high
b)Or the potency is too high
c)or due to unnecessary repetetion.
What to do?
Wait and watch.If the aggravation is unbearable,you may have to antidote it.If, it is bearable,the patient is on the road to recovery.Be patient.
2)Dissimilar aggravation:
New and troublesome symptoms not peraining to the disease appear.
Also,these symtoms are never recorded to be capable of production by the remedy.
The inference is it is a wrong remedy.
What to do?
The case is to be taken afresh,and a suitable remedy to be found that is having the old and new symptoms in its pathogenesis(provings/materia medica).
3)accessory symptoms:
New symptoms,not related to the disease develop.But they belong to the remedy.If they are mild and transient,that is the right direction.may or may not lead to cure,but brings nearer to cure.
If,they increase,the remedy is only a "partial similimum."The remedy has done all it can do.
What to do?
in the first case,where the new symtoms are transient in nature,wait for a long time.There will definitely be relief.Select a new remedy,for the remaining symptoms,only if the progress reached a plateu.
In the second case,
a new remedy to be found, based on the new totality,as early as possible,or if unbearable,antidote.
Now,the million dollar question.
You are not that thorough with materia medica.You are not sure whether the new symptom belongs to the remedy or not.How do you interprete it?
Here the vitality of the patient is to be considered.
If,he is feeling better,more active,despite the new symptoms,it is a partial simillimum.
If,he is feeling miserable,more distressed,yours is a wrong remedy.
So,it is very important to assess the vitality of the patient before taking a decision.
4)Return of old symtoms:
As many are aware,it is good to happen.They will subside on their own,if the remedy is the simillimum.
What to do if the intensity of the old symptoms are more severe than the present symtoms?
It is a sign that,the remedy is given either in a large dose,or in a high potency,or a result of too much repetetion.Most probably,they will subside quickly,and won't pose a danger to the patient.
It can be observed that,the patient feels a greater sense of health and vitality.
I could have posted the url here,but many people may skip it over.
That is why I tried to type it,all again in my own words.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 on 2004-10-23
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Your own words count most!
Seem that you aays can count on my voice in discussion.
questions/doubts/problems/whatever
to #2-dissimilar aggravation and wrong remedy
I do not quite agree that the patient shows symptoms NOT induced by the remedy.
I believe in dis.agg. sensitive patient SHOWS the symptoms of remedy=proves that remedy
If the patient shows symptoms not related either to him/her or the remedy it means (to me) that
1. the remedy was wrong and has absolutely no effect on the patient
2.patient develops new symptoms
about vitality: once I was in discus. if vital force=vitality (I don't think we ever reached any concusion. What do you think?
Seem that you aays can count on my voice in discussion.
questions/doubts/problems/whatever
to #2-dissimilar aggravation and wrong remedy
I do not quite agree that the patient shows symptoms NOT induced by the remedy.
I believe in dis.agg. sensitive patient SHOWS the symptoms of remedy=proves that remedy
If the patient shows symptoms not related either to him/her or the remedy it means (to me) that
1. the remedy was wrong and has absolutely no effect on the patient
2.patient develops new symptoms
about vitality: once I was in discus. if vital force=vitality (I don't think we ever reached any concusion. What do you think?
Astra2012 2 decades ago
Astra
I think if the patient starts proving the remedy,then it is to be considered as case 3.He is having symptoms,related to the remedy,which are outside the disease symtoms.
Where as in dissimilar aggravation,the new symptoms are such that,they are never recorded to be capable of getting induced by the remedy.
So,obviously they can't be considered as proving.
I understood your question like this.You feel,those new symptoms,are also a part of proving,and it doesn't matter,whether they were recorded earlier or not.
When a medicine is acting suppressively,then it may give new symptoms,and perhaps they can't be considered as a part of proving.
Proving symptoms are those,elicited,by conducting the experiments, on healthy people.The new symtoms elicited,when given to a sick person,are not to be considered as proving.
This is my view.Let us discuss futher.
As far as vitality is concerned,if we don't go into many technicalities,it is the measure of positive energy the person is having.
Say,a person,who was very sick,wants to read the news paper,after the administration of the remedy,even when,there is no apparent amoelioration of symptoms,it can be considered that his vitality increased.
May be a crude example,but I think,the point can be understood.
Murthy
P.S. The more you provoke me,the clearer I am becoming in my understanding of the concepts.Pl.keep doing it.
I think if the patient starts proving the remedy,then it is to be considered as case 3.He is having symptoms,related to the remedy,which are outside the disease symtoms.
Where as in dissimilar aggravation,the new symptoms are such that,they are never recorded to be capable of getting induced by the remedy.
So,obviously they can't be considered as proving.
I understood your question like this.You feel,those new symptoms,are also a part of proving,and it doesn't matter,whether they were recorded earlier or not.
When a medicine is acting suppressively,then it may give new symptoms,and perhaps they can't be considered as a part of proving.
Proving symptoms are those,elicited,by conducting the experiments, on healthy people.The new symtoms elicited,when given to a sick person,are not to be considered as proving.
This is my view.Let us discuss futher.
As far as vitality is concerned,if we don't go into many technicalities,it is the measure of positive energy the person is having.
Say,a person,who was very sick,wants to read the news paper,after the administration of the remedy,even when,there is no apparent amoelioration of symptoms,it can be considered that his vitality increased.
May be a crude example,but I think,the point can be understood.
Murthy
P.S. The more you provoke me,the clearer I am becoming in my understanding of the concepts.Pl.keep doing it.
bandarbabu2000 2 decades ago
You also said
"If the patient shows symptoms not related either to him/her or the remedy it means (to me) that
1. the remedy was wrong and has absolutely no effect on the patient
2.patient develops new symptoms."
That is exactly what I mean also.
One more thought,the new symptoms could be attributed to natural worsening of the patient,due to the progress of the disease.The medicine didn't touch him at all.
Abosuletly wrong remedy.These are the cases,where people say,you don't have to bother,about inimical relationships,as long as you are sure,your new choice is correct one.
Murthy
"If the patient shows symptoms not related either to him/her or the remedy it means (to me) that
1. the remedy was wrong and has absolutely no effect on the patient
2.patient develops new symptoms."
That is exactly what I mean also.
One more thought,the new symptoms could be attributed to natural worsening of the patient,due to the progress of the disease.The medicine didn't touch him at all.
Abosuletly wrong remedy.These are the cases,where people say,you don't have to bother,about inimical relationships,as long as you are sure,your new choice is correct one.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 2 decades ago
Dear Murthy,
My own experience is that "Inmical" relationships are to be taken into account very carefully.
One indiscretion and the patient will go through a lot of avoidable suffering.
It might be less important, but you will also loose some good will in the process.
I have seen patients turning away from homeopathy after undergoing a "homeopathic aggravation".....that is why in my initial days of work on ABC I posted a thread which was something like..... "You need to know this!".
You will still find it in the Archives.
Lets not forget that we are all the time dealing with human beings and not dummies.
Best,
Pankaj Varma
My own experience is that "Inmical" relationships are to be taken into account very carefully.
One indiscretion and the patient will go through a lot of avoidable suffering.
It might be less important, but you will also loose some good will in the process.
I have seen patients turning away from homeopathy after undergoing a "homeopathic aggravation".....that is why in my initial days of work on ABC I posted a thread which was something like..... "You need to know this!".
You will still find it in the Archives.
Lets not forget that we are all the time dealing with human beings and not dummies.
Best,
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA 2 decades ago
"Similar aggravation:
It is an increase of symptoms,the patient already suffers.It could be, because,
a)either the dose is too high
b)Or the potency is too high
c)or due to unnecessary repetetion."
Murthy,
I think increase in symptoms, the patient already suffers can also be relevant to 'the potency is low' & which can be corrected by shiftng to higher potencies. In view of 'like cure likes' higher potencies should be able to cure/antidote its lower potencies presenting aggravations. I have also indicated the same in my other topic.
It is an increase of symptoms,the patient already suffers.It could be, because,
a)either the dose is too high
b)Or the potency is too high
c)or due to unnecessary repetetion."
Murthy,
I think increase in symptoms, the patient already suffers can also be relevant to 'the potency is low' & which can be corrected by shiftng to higher potencies. In view of 'like cure likes' higher potencies should be able to cure/antidote its lower potencies presenting aggravations. I have also indicated the same in my other topic.
Logical 2 decades ago
Dear Pankaj
We have to worry about inimicals,no doubt.
What I was trying to clarify is that some authors have expressed the opinion that, in case,if your first remedy didn't work at all,and the present picture points out to a remedy,which is supposedly ,inimical to the first one,you can try it.
However,one has to be very sure about the first remedy not acting.
Finally, Yes, Why take chances.
Murthy
P.S. I saw your other thread.
We have to worry about inimicals,no doubt.
What I was trying to clarify is that some authors have expressed the opinion that, in case,if your first remedy didn't work at all,and the present picture points out to a remedy,which is supposedly ,inimical to the first one,you can try it.
However,one has to be very sure about the first remedy not acting.
Finally, Yes, Why take chances.
Murthy
P.S. I saw your other thread.
bandarbabu2000 2 decades ago
I haven't read all this yet-just came to "complex problkems of the mind"-it's pulsatilla again!
30c aggravated then short lived improvement
200c-just aggravated -no improvement after aggravation
What do you think Murthy? Is it suppresion again???
Will join the right discussion later.
30c aggravated then short lived improvement
200c-just aggravated -no improvement after aggravation
What do you think Murthy? Is it suppresion again???
Will join the right discussion later.
Astra2012 2 decades ago
"I hate being consoled and comforted, I hate cold,"
"i dont like cold"
"I forgot to mention in my charact., that I have always been very rebellious / often only in my mind/, against tradition, old patterns, do everything else but what people expect me to do..."
"Aversions: fatty meats,"
"I dont give in to these problems, I fight them every day, with some success, but its a challenge for me."
So,where is Pulsatilla?
I know,you are thinking I too can copy and paste many Puls. symptoms.But,that won't help.
Let me explain.
Pulsatilla must have relief from cold,cold applications,cool open air.If the thermal state is clearly to the contrary you can forget puls.
Where is the "wind flower"?.That changableness of moods.Yes,her moods change,but not so easily as a "flower bending with wind."
"Hate being consoled and comforted". Puls???
OK.If she is not Puls,why 30 gave relief.
It suits some peripheral symtoms,hence partial remedy,works in low potencies,but will not hold.
Why 200 didn't work?
Partial remedies won't work in high potencies.They tend to work in higher planes,than low potencies,and these planes won't match.
I like it.Throw more challenges like this.
Murthy
"i dont like cold"
"I forgot to mention in my charact., that I have always been very rebellious / often only in my mind/, against tradition, old patterns, do everything else but what people expect me to do..."
"Aversions: fatty meats,"
"I dont give in to these problems, I fight them every day, with some success, but its a challenge for me."
So,where is Pulsatilla?
I know,you are thinking I too can copy and paste many Puls. symptoms.But,that won't help.
Let me explain.
Pulsatilla must have relief from cold,cold applications,cool open air.If the thermal state is clearly to the contrary you can forget puls.
Where is the "wind flower"?.That changableness of moods.Yes,her moods change,but not so easily as a "flower bending with wind."
"Hate being consoled and comforted". Puls???
OK.If she is not Puls,why 30 gave relief.
It suits some peripheral symtoms,hence partial remedy,works in low potencies,but will not hold.
Why 200 didn't work?
Partial remedies won't work in high potencies.They tend to work in higher planes,than low potencies,and these planes won't match.
I like it.Throw more challenges like this.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 2 decades ago
Logical
Somehow,I missed your post earlier.
If the aggravations are due to repeated use of low potencies,perhaps high potencies may help.But,in case the aggravation is from a few doses of low potencies,I think it is not wise to rise the potency,at that stage.
Remember we are talking about similar aggravations.It is better to wait in such cases.
Murthy
Somehow,I missed your post earlier.
If the aggravations are due to repeated use of low potencies,perhaps high potencies may help.But,in case the aggravation is from a few doses of low potencies,I think it is not wise to rise the potency,at that stage.
Remember we are talking about similar aggravations.It is better to wait in such cases.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 2 decades ago
Logical 2 decades ago
Ok.Earlier I explained somewhere else.I will try again.
The vital force in every organism vibrates at a certain frequency,while in health.
The frequency changes while it is diseased.It is due to the effort of the vital force,trying to get rid of the disease.These efforts of the vital force,are shown to us,as symptoms of the disease.
We have to strengthen the efforts of the vital force,to fight the disease with more vigor.
We can do that only by superimposing,a similar frequency,as the diseased vital force is exhibiting.
It will create,what is called a resonance effect.
While this resonance is taking place,the symptoms get aggravated briefly,but now the vital force has enough strength, to drive out the disease.So,the aggravations won't last long.
This is the case when you match the frequencies exactly.
That is why in chronic diseases,a similar aggravation,is considered good.
Murthy
The vital force in every organism vibrates at a certain frequency,while in health.
The frequency changes while it is diseased.It is due to the effort of the vital force,trying to get rid of the disease.These efforts of the vital force,are shown to us,as symptoms of the disease.
We have to strengthen the efforts of the vital force,to fight the disease with more vigor.
We can do that only by superimposing,a similar frequency,as the diseased vital force is exhibiting.
It will create,what is called a resonance effect.
While this resonance is taking place,the symptoms get aggravated briefly,but now the vital force has enough strength, to drive out the disease.So,the aggravations won't last long.
This is the case when you match the frequencies exactly.
That is why in chronic diseases,a similar aggravation,is considered good.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 2 decades ago
Murthy,
It may be in homeopathic language, but what can you explain in science/logical understanding.
Suppose,any disease showing symptoms is from taking more common salt say high BP. If you take more salt, will the symptoms aggravate or not?
It may be in homeopathic language, but what can you explain in science/logical understanding.
Suppose,any disease showing symptoms is from taking more common salt say high BP. If you take more salt, will the symptoms aggravate or not?
Logical 2 decades ago
Pl.don't compare physiological doses with the action of potencies.
Here the salt is acting like a poision for him,and more poision,will definitely aggravate the symptoms,but in such cases,there will not be any cure,but will move the patient nearer to death.
Murthy
Here the salt is acting like a poision for him,and more poision,will definitely aggravate the symptoms,but in such cases,there will not be any cure,but will move the patient nearer to death.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 2 decades ago
Why then, upto a certain lower potency/dilution, any remedy can't act as an addition to already accumulated substance of that remedy or similar to it? In proving, potencies were also used to present symptoms & now also potencies also present proving symptoms. It indicate that upto a certain potency, any remedy can be treated as or alike raw remedy substance.
Logical 2 decades ago
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe one can have a proving on any potency, depending on one's sensitivity, if it is the simillimum and/or the dosage, frequency is too high. I had a proving on 6C, as I was misdosing my mistake. I am not sure if this answers the question, however.
loree 2 decades ago
Logical
Your idea is not clear to me.Pl.explain in detail,preferably,with an example,to understand better.
Murthy
Your idea is not clear to me.Pl.explain in detail,preferably,with an example,to understand better.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 2 decades ago
Astra
I gave my analysis on why "Puls" won't fit your case.
Now,tell me,why do you think,it is Ars.alb.
Murthy
I gave my analysis on why "Puls" won't fit your case.
Now,tell me,why do you think,it is Ars.alb.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 2 decades ago
Murthy,
I think you can understand this by understanding 'why proving was done by potentised remeies also. It is to aggravate the hidden symptoms of any remedy substance.
I think you can understand this by understanding 'why proving was done by potentised remeies also. It is to aggravate the hidden symptoms of any remedy substance.
Logical 2 decades ago
Just to help you understand what Murthy is saying......some researchers have researched and found that each homeopathic med corresponds to a certain frequency.
In actuality a drug picture match means the frequency of the individual and the frequency of the medicine has matched.....cure will result.
More research is going on.. on this.....
best,
Pankaj Varma
In actuality a drug picture match means the frequency of the individual and the frequency of the medicine has matched.....cure will result.
More research is going on.. on this.....
best,
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA 2 decades ago
Technically looking as physiological effects, aggravations can be due to many reasons:-
1.By addition: if a bio-chemical in in excess but still working. If you add to it in crude or in some lower potencies, it will aggravate same symptoms. Increasing the potency should work.
2. By initiation of cure:- if a biochemical is in excess, accumulated but not working(as insulin resistance). When you initiate cure or excite cell to assimilate that bio-chemical which is in excess, cells just awaken & find excess of biochemical, so just get toxicity at initial levels. Higher the potency higher will be the awakening effect so higher will be the aggravation. Wait & watch or lowering the potency or starting low potencies can work.
3.By homostatis: Most of bio-chemicals have its competiting & complementary other bio-chemicals.On initiation of cure of any excess bio-chemical--it can also effect its conterpart or competiting & complementary other bio-chemicals. It may produce some differant symptoms. Wait & watch or assessing the new situation can be the goal.
Aggravation usually means right remedy is selected.
I have just tried to explain it physiologically in broad sense.
1.By addition: if a bio-chemical in in excess but still working. If you add to it in crude or in some lower potencies, it will aggravate same symptoms. Increasing the potency should work.
2. By initiation of cure:- if a biochemical is in excess, accumulated but not working(as insulin resistance). When you initiate cure or excite cell to assimilate that bio-chemical which is in excess, cells just awaken & find excess of biochemical, so just get toxicity at initial levels. Higher the potency higher will be the awakening effect so higher will be the aggravation. Wait & watch or lowering the potency or starting low potencies can work.
3.By homostatis: Most of bio-chemicals have its competiting & complementary other bio-chemicals.On initiation of cure of any excess bio-chemical--it can also effect its conterpart or competiting & complementary other bio-chemicals. It may produce some differant symptoms. Wait & watch or assessing the new situation can be the goal.
Aggravation usually means right remedy is selected.
I have just tried to explain it physiologically in broad sense.
Logical 2 decades ago
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