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Dog - surgery- vaccines-arnica pre & post?

Hello. We worked with a local homeopath who treated our dog with stramonium 200c last year for behaviour anger issues, tremoring, fear etc. with moderate to minimal success. It's happening again perhpas connected to our other dogs heat cycle. This vet charged us SO much money but we were desperate as we are afraid he will bite a stranger. There is another vet locally who says he practices 50% hoemooapthy but when we took the dogs in last year for contstant scratching, he gave us the drugs and said he never has much success with hoemopathy and skin issues with dogs. WE did not give it.

He's 6yrs old and we've decided to have him neutered and have a thyroid panel done too in another desperate attemmpt to turn our beloved companionn around. he just seems to have become unstable and he is a BIG dog.

HOWEVER the local vets will not do the neutering unless we get ALL the vaccines first. He has been vaccine free since 8 wks of age and has been naturally reared since then on a raw diet, with no allopathic intervention etc.

i am worried the vaccines will make his behaviour or health worse and I can't do both vaccines and neutering at the same time as it would be too much for his system.

Can I give him anything before or after the vaccines?

How long should I wait between the vaccines and the surgery?

Should I do arnica before and after surgery? hypericum? I used both of these for my homebirths so I was thinking they would work for him?

I would be most thankful for some input. We've also tried finding behavioural people to work with him, but everyone requires the vaccines and all live minimum 2 hours away from us in Toronto.

thank you

  wendypape on 2007-07-26
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Hi Wendy, sorry you're going through this!

Do not give anything prophylactically for the vaccines. Do not treat after the vaccines unless/until symptoms develop so that the right remedy can be chosen. You cannot predict ahead of time what symptoms may develop, so you cannot predict ahead of time which remedy will be needed.

Arnica after and maybe beforehand as well may be helpful.

The vet who was 50% homeopathic but hasn't had much success doesn't sound as though he really knows anything about homeopathy. Best not to use his remedies, especially if he gave you more than one. More than one might be required, but the case should be retaken after the previous remedy has had a chance to act. And he would need to stay in touch with you about proper dosing.

I don't understand the nonsense about 'all' the vaccines. I realize you may not have a choice. :-(

There are good classical homeopaths available at yahoo's group 'classicalhomeopathypets'. They can work long distance. That may resolve your need for a good homeopath and it may be a start in finding a suitable holistic (nonhomeopathic) vet in your area. They also have information about thyroid panels that may be more accurate than a local vet would be able to tell you. It is pretty specialized.

Good luck!
Daisy43 last decade
Hi Wendy,
Seems that they trapped you - and you have to vaccinate your dog-whether you like it or not (we also had to do it-because we had to leave our dog in kennel for a week).

The 50% homeopath doesn't make sense--my very first case was my scratching dog-and 12c sulphur, 4 small pellets did the job after the vet unsuccessfully tried to cure it for years. (sulph was perfect in THAT case - doesn't mean all scratching casaes).

Allow a week between vac. and surgery, at least. It is a shock for the body - he wll be doing some 'inner fighting' after all.

hope for no complications - all you can do is giving him lots of rest and water (pure but not distilled).

Arnica before surgery might help (as there is no way to know if it does!), after surgery I would refer hypericum in that case.
Astra2012 last decade

Do NOT let ANYONE Trap you into doing something that will hurt your dog. PLEASE find a vet that will do the surgery without the vaccines. Vaccines last a lifetime due to cell memory - more vaccines equals MORE health and emotional problems, not less.
If you give vaccines and do the surgery, you will end up worse than when you started. STOP LETTING THIS VET BULLY YOU. You are an amazing owner, doing all the right things. Don't stop now.

Use google and the yellow pages. Call every vet in your area. Find a holistic vet if you can. THERE IS NO GOOD REASON TO GIVE YOUR DOG VACCINES in order to have that surgery. LUDICROUS! I would never go back to a vet that told me that.

FYI for everyone: Protocol for all vaccines is do ONE at a time, not the mixes they make (ex: DHLPP). Each vaccine should be given three weeks apart to let the immune system build back up again. All you need are the first puppy shots (distemper at 9 and 15 wks, parvo at 12) once. Then the body recognizes it if it is exposed to it. That's all vaccines are for: cell memory. More will only weaken the immune system and it is not even scientifically necessary. Even the manufacturer of the primary vaccines state in their literature that they last 7 years to lifetime.

Quick Diet check - no wheat corn or soy? Three most common allergens to dogs. You said raw diet so I'm assuming you know that. (No grains)

I know how frustrating this can be. Take a breather, do something nice for yourself and regroup. Your vet needs to go. THERE IS A VET OUT THERE FOR YOU THAT CAN HELP.

If you tell me what part of the country (city/state) you are in, maybe I can help you google if you are simply exhausted and at wits end. Start by calling all the vets first..

REPORT BACK! I'm standing strong with you.

tinkerbelbarbie last decade
ARNICA - I have gone through many surgeries, personally and with my dogs. Arnica makes a world of difference. Not only does it help with the internal healing from all the cutting and banging around but it helps pull the aneathesia out of the body faster which means you'll feel better faster. My dog went under yesterday and was running out of the vets looking for food. They were confused because they didn't know what I did. The big name plastic surgeons recommend it to ther patients for the same reasons.

How much? Dogs - about 3 pellets/tabs 3x/day (30x) for 2-3 days before the surgery. Minimum - ask an expert for more detailed instructions for your specific animal. Then 3 pills just before the dog gets wheeled in and three as soon as it starts waking or as soon as you can get in to see it. Then, continue for a few days afterwards.

Administration? I now get the tablets, put them in a syringe, suck up a little purified water, shake to dissolve (its fast) and give directly into the mouth. A little taste treat that will make a huge difference.

ASTRA2012 and anyone else with the same feelings: NO ONE TRAPS YOU INTO POISONING YOUR DOG. It is still your decision. A recommendation of poisoning and bombarding your dogs immune system just before going under the knife is a sure sign that you never want you pet to see that vet again. RUN! You have to hunt but there are good vets out there.
tinkerbelbarbie last decade
I agree with you wholeheartedly and I have not proceeded with anything.

If I could find a dog skilled homeopath that could help us with this dogs behaviour I could avoid all of this. The problem is although he has been a growly dog (he is a watch dog-we live on rural secluded acreage) just lately he has exibited some strange aggressive behaviour with a few people he has liked since birth and we are afraid he will bite someone. He is a very large dog at 120lbs.

We worked with one woman homeopathic/ND vet but she charged us close to $400!! for 1 visit and 1 remedy and she was afraid of our dog! We don't have that kind of money to play around if the right remedy can't be obtained.

Despite my knowledge of homeopathy, I will not prescribe for him by myself as I do not want to make the situation worse.

HOnestly I don't even want to alter him, as I believe that is unnatural and causes more problems as well for dogs AND people that are altered. However everyone immediately says that an aggressive dog should be neutered if he isn't already. He's 6 yrs old and there is a good chance this will make absolutely no difference. I have met many intact dogs and they were NOT aggressive... and I have met fixed dogs that were aggressive... so it is not always 'the' solution.

I haven't asked for specific help for our dogs behaviour on this group as I figured this is mostly for people but if there is someone on here that might be able to help I would LOVE to hear!!! I am desperate to help this beloved animal- he is truly an amazing canine, much loved by my 2 children and us.

thanks again tinkerbel for such a passionate post- I needed that! ;-)

near toronto canada
wendypape last decade
tinkerbell... I also forgot to mention that you are correct, we do not feed grains. Our meat/bones is mostly organic... the pulp/mash that they get periodically is from the organic veggies we use to make our juice. As money allows we do supplement with oils for efa's, ground nuts, kelp etc. He definately is a happier dog when he is supplemented optimally but we struggle as it is to feed our children organic/whole foods as I am a hoemschooling mom and we are a 1 income family. Choices we make I guess.

Also in regards to the scratching last fall... yes we did try sulphur and alas it did not work for either dog. It was most bizarre. I thought at first it was mange etc. but a herbal lady dowsed and suggested it was a pesticide exposure of some sort. Oddly enough my children and I got reallys ick this spring with lung/chronic coughs- turned out months later I found out the 200 acres next to us had been sold to new farmers who planted corn and sprayed within 2 days of us getting so sick. It is difficult when you move to the country to 'get away from it' and yet it seems to still be everywhere! sigh.

thanks to everyone for their posts.

wendypape last decade
Wendy, thanks for the update.

You can find the 'dog skilled homeopath' at the forum I suggested - yahoo's group 'classicalhomeopathypets'. They can treat long distance. You aren't likely to find someone qualified near you.

Good luck, Daisy
Daisy43 last decade
tinker-I wouldn't go as far as calling vaccines poisons-
they can be blessings! Just ask any parent of 1950s when polio vaccine was introduced

my un-vac. dog died of distemper - so all my dogs are now vaccinated and THEY ARE GREAT!

Let's try to not be hysterical.
Astra2012 last decade
And yet the vaccines, in particular rabies, are a significant cause of major aggression and other severe behavioral problems in dogs. How do we know that? In part because of the success classical homeopathy can have in curing those behaviors.
Daisy43 last decade
Rabies vaccines are definitely bettr than rabies.

Besides: I never said that vaccines do not cause problems, behavioral or others. I said that they couldn't be called poisons.
Astra2012 last decade
To vaccinate or not is always a major debate.

I don't know much about animals, but for humans, particularly in third world countries, it is better to get childern vaccinated against debilitating diseases like polio.

Once the child contracts polio, there is no way homeopathy is going to help you.

The after effects of vaccination, if any can be handled with homeopathy.

However vaccination against typhoid, influenza etc.. are to be avoided.

gavinimurthy last decade
Murthy, part of the problem in the United States is that a vaccine like rabies is required by law. Not once, but either every year or every three years for the dog's or cat's life. If the animal is really sick it may be skipped but that is usually the only legal reason to do so. Absolutely no consideration is given to whether the animal has built up a titer. The three year rule is a reflection that that is how long the vaccine manufacturer has tested the vaccine. It is probably effective forever but that doesn't matter. In my state that even applies to elderly cats that are strictly indoors and have no exposure. It is ridiculous. There are very, very few qualified homeopathic vets in this country, only a fraction of what would be needed to handle the effects of vaccinosis, so homeopathy is really only a hypothetical solution for us.
Daisy43 last decade
I do not advocate zero vaccines. A growing group of people recommend the distemper and parvo puppy shots as a one time event. Luckily, we do not have rabies in my state so I can not speak to that one. I personally believe facts prove side effects outweigh the other vaccines available.

Why? LOGIC and FACTS, not hysteria.

An important question to ask is, 'what do we do to ensure that children who are vaccinated at an early age (usually under 6 yrs) still have immunity at 20, 40, 60 or 90 years of age? Nothing! We don't routinely vaccinate adults. We rely on the memory cells of the immune system.

Since vaccines for people are similar to canine/feline vaccines, since the immune system of a human is similar to that of an animal, and since immunity persists for the life of a person, averaging 70+ years, then why wouldn't immunity form canine/feline vaccines persist for 10-15 years?

Readministration of a vaccine does NOT enhance immunity. Since you are bombarding the immune system unnecessarily, it does just the opposite. It seems we've forgotten what vaccines are all about. Boosters are what I think are poisonous... putting things in their systems that attack an immune system that is already primed to do the job if exposed to the disease.

Just be rational and understand what something IS and what it is FOR before you make any decisions. It's all for the animals!


ps. A relative of mine died from polio just before the vaccine was invented. I get what they are for. But we don't get boosters every year for polio, do we? Or do you?
tinkerbelbarbie last decade
Have you considered finding a dog behaviorist? Someone like caesar milan (dog whisperer)? It might be the smallest thing that you don't even realize. A change in the household, another dog who is instigating it with a look you didn't notice, something that is throwing him off....there are so many factors.

I have a 2 yr old in tact male who is the sweetest calmest dearest dog I've ever known and a 5 yr old (same breed) female who had the surgery and is still a wild one. I think doing the surgery is just grasping at air like a drowing man. Let's think more on this...

Five stars for all that you do. Very impressive.

tinkerbelbarbie last decade
Another thing of note:
Even the manufacturers of the primary vaccines state in writing that they last longer than what the boosters are recommend for by most vets
See below, manufacturers info:

Distemper: Lifetime
Parvo: Lasts 7.5 years, probably lifetime
Rabies: Lasts 7+ yeras, probably lifetime
tinkerbelbarbie last decade
Generally I agree with Murphy (about vaccines).

Tinker says it is ridiculous to give boosters when the first vac. is still working-of course it is. This is not the first or last law that doesn't make sense.
(does it make sense to vaccinate 2-weeks old breast-fed babies who take antibodies from mother and have underdeveloped own immunology?)

I don't want to change the world.
Astra2012 last decade

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