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The ABC Homeopathy Forum

Dosage of liquid Arnica 30c Page 2 of 2

This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Maraheem I agree many patients will not notice a single dose, if there own disease is more powerful than the remedy. As we known a more powerful disease repels a weaker one. However, IF a patient does react it is our responsibility to proect them from further harm by adjusting or stopping the treatment.

Joe I wonder what Dr. Du Schepper would say about your mutilation of the homoeopathic method.

Actually no need to wonder, this is what he has to say..

'upon simple investigation he sins against every principle of true homeopathy. He claims that he has found his own method, necessary because these are new and trying times and therefore even Hahnemann would have approved of his inventions. Yet this “important” looking statement only hides his incompetence and laziness to truly study this difficult topic continuously. He attended a few seminars and now thinks is possessed of a knowledge that no longer needs fine-tuning. He prescribes for every patient a “protocol,” similar to his well-learned allopathic physicians, forgetting that to cure a patient the individuality must be taken into account.

According to his conviction--for Disease A, there is “protocol A” which should be applied for several months. It is a secret wish of someone who wanted to be an allopathic physician or at least attain his stature, as he seeks to imitate those who practice contrary to anything that stands for homeopathy. But of course he tells you about the enormous “successes” he had. In reality, he does not know what a “true cure” stands for: the freedom of any mental. emotional and physical suffering, and the prevention of recurrence of your disease or transference to another disease. He is sure that his “genius” will be recognized and that the next Nobel prize in medicine is his. There is no lack of delusions here.'

Hmmmm....does that sound familiar Joe?

What a shame you could not be converted to proper homoeopathy by Dr. Du Schepper as well.

I have not used dry doses in clinic for many years now. I was practicing from the 6th edition of the Organon from the beginning of my practice. I imagine you have never even read the Organon of Medicine.

Why do our principles exist? They exist to protect the sick and vulnerable from harm, to guide practitioners to cure - real genuine cure. You denigrate those principles, cast them aside, out of ignorance and ego, and your 'patients' suffer because of it.

You claim that all this theory gets in the way of helping people. And yet people come to this website based on the reputation of homoeopathy to cure the incurables. They come because our 'theories' have given homoeopaths an ability to help men and women beyond any other single therapy.

I realise that you are completely unable to refute the points I make. It is clear that your only defence is to insult my character. It is no wonder you don't practice homoeopathy - you do not have the mind or heart for it.
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
Dr Du Schepper has some other interesting things to say about other parts of your 'method'.

'Someone after listening to a lecture about finding THE remedy of the year for flu (called genus epidemicus) was all excited and thought, “maybe there is a genus epidemicus”, in other words ONE remedy for all autistic children. Sounds logical yet it is totally wrong. When we talk about genus epidemicus we are talking about acute diseases that come up sporadically among the population like the yearly flu. In other words every year we have a different flu virus (that’s why the old previous flu vaccinations are worthless and dangerous) but the homeopath after examining about ten flu victims can determine THE remedy for that year’s flu. When we speak of ASD we speak of a chronic condition that is determined by many more individual factors: constitution, hereditary factors, causality, etc. We never treat a name of a disease, but a patient with a disease. It is the gravest mistake of allopathy to try to put diseases names on people. The goal of course is to apply a treatment protocol. However any person knows that he is a unique individual, with unique features, background, hereditary factors and as Carl Jung concluded, therefore will react on any situation in his own individual way. The law of individuality is just as much a sacred principle as the previous Laws. We might have ten ASD patients and need ten different remedies. I wish it was different as practicing homeopathy would be easier! Let’s face it: when you go to the tailor, does he have one dress or suit for everyone? One size fits all?'

'I have tried to find out the rationale for these practices of mixing and alternating remedies. Many practitioners delude themselves that there is no danger in these practices because the remedies are “harmless.” Apparently they think that since the remedies contain not one molecule of the original substance there cannot be any harm in giving several at once, and perhaps they follow the American belief that “more is better.” I know other such practitioners who are trying to create for themselves the prestige and status of allopathic physicians, imitating the lab coats and stethoscopes as well as the polypharmacy of allopathy.

But polypharmacy (giving many prescriptions at once) is harmful in homeopathy as well as in allopathy. Remember that the remedies bear a powerful force. If they can consistently cure the so-called “incurable diseases,” they must be highly active agents. Each remedy delivers an energetic “punch” to the Vital Force, and it is the secondary response of the Vital Force which acts against the illness and heals the patient. Giving too many remedies at once can leave the Vital Force punched down like a boxer staggering to his knees. In fact I have seen patients who have been given so many remedies by previous homeopaths that their Vital Force no longer responds to the single well-chosen remedy, which could have cured their case in the first place before they were rendered incurable by bad homeopathy

The well-chosen remedy, the simillimum, delivers an energetic impact which exactly matches the symptom picture of the patient. Any other remedy will not be a perfect match, that is, it will have symptoms in its symptom picture which do not match the patient’s. These aspects of the remedy can stimulate the Vital Force to create new symptoms, called accessory symptoms of the remedy. It is only logical that if more than one remedy is given at once or in close succession, only one can be the simillimum and the others are likely to create accessory symptoms. For example, I have seen a mixture labeled “Grief” which has every grief remedy under the sun, from Pulsatilla to Nat mur. There is no way that one patient can need both these remedies; they cannot be both the weepy, needy, consolation-seeking Pulsatilla and the stiff-upper-lip, leave-me-alone Nat mur.

The result of these mixtures can be a tangled mess of symptoms which make it impossible for the homeopath to follow the case. I have seen these patients too. It is bad enough that we have to sort out the patient’s true symptoms from those induced by their allopathic medications. We should not have to sort out symptoms induced by our own colleagues! Speaking of difficulties following the case, mixtures and alternation of remedies bring about another problem which we see in allopathic medicine all the time. I have seen allopathic physicians give my patients several drugs, one of which might “cure” the case but all of which have serious side effects. The mixture achieves the desired effect (suppressing the symptoms, which they call a cure). Then the physician does not know which medication “worked” and which ones can be discontinued. As a result the patient is kept on the dangerous drug cocktail indefinitely, with drug interactions compounding the side effects of the single drugs. When remedies are mixed the same problems arise. If the patient aggravates it is difficult to tell which remedy caused the problem; if the patient is improving slightly, which remedy should be re-administered in a higher potency?


And just as in allopathic medicine, the interactions among the remedies can bring about harmful effects which the single remedies would not create. This can even happen when the remedies are alternated. Each remedy has a long duration of action, usually lasting weeks or months. Giving several remedies within a single week creates all the bad results of mixing remedies because their effects will overlap.'

And finally, he has this to say...

'As practitioners we must remember, as I always tell my students, that we are not repairing refrigerators. We have our patients’ lives and health in our hands. We have a responsibility to educate ourselves in the laws and principles of homeopathy: we must know how to give a single well-chosen remedy, chosen by the totality of the symptoms, based on the proving picture of the remedy. We must educate our patients and the public that anyone who does not follow these laws does not deserve the title of homeopath. They may call themselves eclectics or anything else they want, but not homeopaths. In the words of Constantine Hering, one of our most revered masters, “If our school ever gives up the strict inductive method of Hahnemann, we are lost and deserve only to be mentioned as a caricature in the history of medicine.”
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
Oh in case anyone is interested in more of Dr. Luc du Schepper's articles, they can be found at his website

brisbanehomoeopath last decade
To David,

This is in response to your penultimate post which I have had on my computer for a few days as I wished to comment on your last but I find that I do not have the time to do so right now. I shall comment on it later. This exercise takes so much of my time which I can otherwise spend more fruitfully on helping patients.

It is good to learn that you have personally 'been involved in a variety of provings over the years both as prover and supervisor. I even appear as a prover in the the Koala Milk proving organized by Phil Robins. Not only that, I have been seeing real patients in a clinical situation for 17 years. I have seen many provers begin to get symptoms from the first dose. I have seen most patients get a response from the first dose of their remedy. I have seen patients get new symptoms from a single dose of a medicine.'

Presuming that your statements are true and not downright and deliberate lies which they sometimes are, I would like to know what exactly you are trying to prove on this thread by so vehemently and unjustly attacking me with the obvious intent of poisoning the mind of the patients who have posted on it. These patients Ashok Kumar, Pravin Tale and Laxmipathy have all confirmed that they or their family member on whose behalf they posted, had already shown some improvement of their ailment which was discovered within the past few days.

If the reverse was the case however, and these patients reported that their medical problems had exacerbated as a result of my Joepathy, you had every right to criticize me and if this was indeed the case, I would have been the first to accept that my therapy was wrong or even dangerous, and would have been happy to amend it at least in the case of future patients who may present these same symptoms.

You will note that it was only when you started to attack and criticize me on this thread and also in the case of your attacks on others, that I gave you a broadside in the hope that it will silence you effectively but I am surprised to note that in your last post you still continue to attack me without any real reason to do so other than perhaps to show off your superior knowledge of Homeopathy, which according to the 'gospel according to David Kempson' , may only be prescribed by me on the strict classical guidelines that you stipulate. For the record I must admit that I am not at all impressed by your obvious parody of your achievements which I believe you trot out to your own patients in your practice in Brisbane. On the ABC it seems so puerile and of no consequence whatever.

The paradox of your criticism it is so useless not to mention aimless, as it is not understood by the patients on this thread who list their ailment on the ABC in the hope of obtaining relief free of charge ASAP which unlike in the case of your own patients they have to pay you for the prescription which you will again work out according to your own gospel. You have every right to do so as Homeopathy is not your Hobby like it is in my case and I note that you have defended your right to do so in some other post when I mentioned that I treat patients free of charge. Please understand that I have no problem that you are so doing. My only problem is that I have to spend so much of my time in first responding to your criticisms and now in attacking you which as you will realize is not good for me and for you from a standpoint of health and other factors, including the sheer wastage of time for us both.

'How many provings have you been involved in Joe? How many provings have you reviewed or studied or supervised that you can speak with such confidence on how long it takes to get symptoms? I can only imagine that you do not believe in the Law of Similars – which means that you do not believe in Homoeopathy.'

I have not been involved in any provings as I only interested in the use of remedies in the Joepathy manner all of which I obtain in Ethanol from my supplier in Mumbai and use to help my patients in Sri Lanka free of charge including the medicines used.

'When a patient reports a negative reaction to a remedy what you should be doing is reassessing the case. No more doses of that remedy should be given to the person. If a patient does experience new symptoms on a remedy there is a chance that repeated doses will worsen them, or create even more symptoms. And this is exactly what has happened in some of your cases. '

It is strange but true that I have not been called upon to reassess a case as you can read on the ABC and other Forums that I visit. This is the greatest blessing of using my Joepathy instead of the classical remedies prescribed which I can still obtain from Radar which I have on my computer which will equate your own gospel remedies.

'What is most terrible is how trusting these people are, and how you mercilessly take advantage of it. Shameful. Of course many of them do not realize you are not a homoeopath, that you do not practice homoeopathy, and they live in vain hope that you know what you are doing. '

What to me is more frustrating is that you compel me to waste so much of my time in responding to your inane criticisms which I am now convinced you make out of jealousy at the success that my patients report on almost on a daily basis of their response to my Joepathy.

'You attack those who do have knowledge of homoeopathy because they are your greatest threat- because they can see the truth of what you are doing. Your only way to defend yourself from this perceived threat is to call into doubt the personal character of homoeopaths. '

David, I do wish that you are NOT SO VERY CONCEITED on your take on classical homeopathy. You state that you are a teacher and I presume that this attitude clouds your judgement where you cannot accept your students viewpoint as you are so obsessed with your own mental state and that urge to correct anyone who disagrees with your theories even when you see on a daily basis that my Joepathy is invariably far more curative than your own 'Davidopathy'. I wonder if your attitude stems from that insecurity that you may be perhaps born with for which Lyco is the obvious remedy.

I must admit that I was fascinated with Boericke's notes which described you precisely.
'Cannot bear to see anything new. Cannot read what he writes.'

The fact that you take refuge in criticism only and NOT in prescribing is a clear case of your inability to face the music and you then cover up your weakness by ordering the patient to consult you in Brisbane.

'You attack those who do have knowledge of homoeopathy because they are your greatest threat- because they can see the truth of what you are doing. Your only way to defend yourself from this perceived threat is to call into doubt the personal character of homoeopaths. '

I have recorded the success of the therapy I have prescribed to the majority of the patients in the threads that they have subscribed on the ABC and other Forums. I do not have to attack anyone except you in the recent past as Gavini Murthy who was perhaps even worse than you finally came over to appreciating my take on Joepathy which he surprised me by stating:

'I now appreciate that homeopathic medicines are capable of curing even when used in the non classical way. '

And here is my response on the same link which I am copying as it is pertinent to this debate:

I am glad that Gavini has finally realized that this precious Science is in a continuous state of evolution and if Hahnemann was alive today, I feel confident that he too would have subscribed to the direct 'This for That' therapy that I have always advocated which now has found international acceptance under the title 'Joepathy'. As no doubt you are aware, the majority of homeopaths use the same 'This for That' therapy that I have advocated. The intrinsic difference between them and me is simply the fact that they would never dare to openly state the fact that they use my Joepathy approach to curing an ailment as they would run the risk of losing their license to practice Homeopathy. It is obvious that no homeopath can possibly see 100 patients daily if he used the Classical formula as each patient will take at least an hour of his time.

These classical homeopaths have all been trained in their respective colleges and since I did not have any formal tuition in the Science of Homeopathy but only studied the text books used in my free time away from my business, I was able to quickly weed out what I felt was unnecessary data in the selection of a remedy. I then proceeded to use the remedy I had decided upon on those who consulted me and when it worked in a manner that the remedy suggested by Radar did not, I preferred to use my own initiative which I believe is God given to a few. I am very conscious of the fact that I am guided by instinct and some of the cures that I have recorded on this and other Forums I visit will give ample testimony to the efficacy of my Joepathy.

As I believe you are aware, I have never sought any financial reward for my services and it is this openness and the love I project in helping anyone in distress that has rewarded me at my advanced age to be still able to fulfill my function as the CEO of my organization as I have done for the last 55+ years.

I do appreciate that some ailments may be better helped by the Classical protocol that Hahnemann advocated but I feel that he made a fundamental when he advocated that 'The totality of the symptoms that the patient presents should be treated with ONE single remedy'. I did try to abide by the principle he formulated but soon discovered that it was quite impossible for me to treat the patient and cure him/her while using his theory. It was then that I purchased Radar 9 about 5 years ago and since I use a MacBook Pro computer it was possible to use Radar which is written only for the PC platform on my computer as it can also run the PC platform. Radar is an excellent module to use for study purposes but it is too complicated for daily use with each patient.
Joe De Livera last decade
Dear Experts,

May The God Almighty bless you both?

Constructive criticism and fruitful exchange of ideas is very healthy.

There must never be a personal attack as the objective here is to help others.

Difference of opinions and different approaches to treat patients must be exercised with great respect for this forum, not to confuse patients and to deliver more knowledge to all involved here. This will certainly help in the long run.

Lastly, I would like to kindly request both of the devoted doctors to be brief with productive comments, respect the computer resources of ABC and this forum, not to confuse patients and not to waste productive time of yours and others as all of us have to read very long posts of yours.

With many many prayers for all of you.

nawazkhan last decade
To Nawaz

Thank you for your Blessings which I reciprocate.

I agree with you completely that nothing is gained by attacking anyone's therapy which in my case is given with the best of intentions. The remedy I prescribe has invariably been used by me to treat a similar case in the past and I do not theorize on its selection. I have specified the parameters that I use in my last post which I did in detail, with reference to previous posts with other Homeopaths who were also at one time harassing me on the ABC. As you would have read we parted the best of friends and this person sometimes comments on my therapy but in a very constructive manner.

It seems such a pity that I have to waste so much of my time to defend my therapy but as you are aware yourself, when I am attacked I am quite capable of defending myself even though I am old enough to be the father of the attacker.

The difference in my case is that I never resort to starting a fight but if anyone dares to do so, I am always ready to defend and even attack if necessary when doing so.

In no case have I been the first to launch an attack.
Joe De Livera last decade
Dear and respectable Joe D. Livera, You are right no one must attack the most senior member who is extending immediate help to the patients in pain. You are indeed a well respected, most trusted and excellent helper on this and the other forums. Therefore, I would like to kindly request you to spend your precious and productive time in treating more patients in a timely manner. As you know, a majority of the people coming to this forum need immediate help, but, some helpers ask them hundreds of questions creating more pain, confusion and suffering for them. You see Mr. Livera suggesting a remedy requires skill and experience as you have indeed devoted 25 years of your precious time to help patients in desparate need on a timely manner. You don't need 25 pages of notes and a sophisticated computer programs (Software) that will select multiple remedies for the patient. Then, after a week or so this helper suggests a remedy that he is still not sure it is going to work or not, complete lack of confidence. After that a series of events start for a long time, try this, wait for 2 weeks, then, try this wait for another week and the drama continues for months and months......

What is this Joe? Are we really helping people or doing some experiments? Please help me here Joe to make some sense out of this.

Please keep up the good work to seek the pleasure of The God Almighty.

Kind Regards
nawazkhan last decade
Dear Nawaz

I am indeed glad to note that you have commented on the current attitude in prescribing any therapy to a patient who is suffering from some ailment like GERD or Diabetes or even Hypertension on the ABC.

You have literally hit the nail on the head when you stated:
'some helpers ask them hundreds of questions creating more pain, confusion and suffering for them.'
'Then, after a week or so this helper suggests a remedy that he is still not sure it is going to work or not, complete lack of confidence. After that a series of events start for a long time, try this, wait for 2 weeks, then, try this wait for another week and the drama continues for months and months.....'

This is precisely the 'run around' that the standard classical homeopath has been brainwashed to use as the standard format, in prescribing to a patient during the 5 years of his training in a Homeopathic college. This type of subterfuge has also another side effect which makes it attractive to the prescriber as it ensures that he is assured of a constant source of revenue from the patient. He is prescribed that 'SINGLE remedy to treat the Totality of the Symptoms that he presents' according to the classical gospel aka Organon. That single remedy cannot possibly help a patient who suffers from say, GERD and Eczema and for good measure also has vivid dreams that he is falling from a height. After hundreds of questions posed by the learned homeopath a remedy is finally prescribed, usually without the aid of Radar or other Homeopathic software and the patient is given another appointment in 2 weeks to meet the prescriber for a 'follow up'. The patient uses the remedy as prescribed and discovers that his ailment goes from bad to worse and gives him nightmares literally in the wee hours of the morning as his GERD is refluxing gastric juice up his Esophagus and he is rushed to hospital, suffering from severe burning in his chest which he mistakes for a heart attack. He is then given various expensive antacids and/or PPI drugs and sent home after a ECG to reassure him that his heart was OK.

He then returns to his homeopath and complains that his remedy did not work and that it even caused him more pain and discomfort than before. Another remedy is then prescribed and yet another appointment is made 2 weeks later and so this vicious circle of visits and appointments continue and it will be noted that the patient is being regularly milked of his hard earned money on a regular basis with the fees which in the case of the top grade Homeopaths like one who was quoted by my learned colleague who criticized me is $750 per visit. This can be verified on his website.

The patient in disgust then goes back to hospital as he has found that the PPI drug worked like magic in preventing his heartburn. He does not know that he will shortly be hooked on this poison as it is habit forming and if only he, the patient, does a search on Google for 'The danger of PPI drugs' he will have sufficient evidence to take a case against the doctor for prescribing it.

If this same patient is fortunate to post his case on the ABC which has over 10000 hits daily, and if one of us, the non classical set take his case, his GERD will respond in under an hour after a meal and if he continues with my default therapy, Nat Phos + Arnica he will be cured in a week.

You stated again:
'What is this Joe? Are we really helping people or doing some experiments? Please help me here Joe to make some sense out of this. '

I am glad that you took the time to criticize the current attitude of the majority of classical homeopaths on the ABC as they are more intent on showing off their academic skills in prescribing according to their gospel even though they have been informed by their patients that their therapy just did not work. They will always insist that it was not their therapy that was the cause of it not helping the patient, it was just that the patient did not answer the questions correctly and did not answer an innate question which pertained to his dreams, which was the real reason for the remedy not curing the patient.

It is precisely these same classical homeopaths that will always point accusing fingers at me for distorting their gospel even though the patient reports that he was CURED of his GERD in just a week. You have only to read the detailed critique of my therapy on this thread by my learned colleague to realize how passionately he faults my therapy sometimes with chapter and verse, as it does not conform to his classical training even though there is evidence to prove that it has CURED the patient while the argument was in progress.

This form of subterfuge cannot be practiced on a forum such as the ABC as it is open to the world and these classical homeopaths cannot continue to fool the patient for long as someone, usually me, will butt in to indicate the remedy that has helped other patients who presented the same ailment.

Some of these classical homeopaths who desecrate the ABC have often frightened the patient it that there is no hope unless they use remedies prescribed by those who practice classical homeopathy as otherwise the patient will soon suffer from some other dangerous disease like cancer !!! This scenario is on record in some previous posts from other classical homeopaths in the past when they criticized me for my Joepathy.

As you have read I have already converted one classical homeopath and it is my hope that I will succeed in converting another to 'Joepathy' shortly.

I would like to talk to you on Skype and you can look for me on my ID Joedelivera.

Kind Regards

Joe De Livera
Joe De Livera last decade
You have not converted Murthy by the way - more delusion on your part. I assume that is who you are talking about.

Actually, I believe that my point has been made so that people here can see it. No need for me to go on about it.

As you become more irrational and insulting I feel less inclined to enter into a 'debate' with you (if that is what you can call this tirade of accusations).

As I have said before, I will continue to correct the misinformation you give to unsuspecting patients here. I believe most people are able to determine what makes sense and act accordingly.
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
Dear David and Dear Joe

I am forced to reply since I am being refered again and again.

I stopped interfering in other's threads as it is serving no purpose except rising heat and spoiling relations.

I did say that sometimes even 'this for that' seems to work. I still prefer to use proper homeopathy.

However Joe is right when he says that majority of practitioners in the Indian sub continent go by disease name in selecting remedies. But they are not as limited to as the ones Joe has. Moreover they do go by emerging symptoms and change the remedy as and when required. They use the concept, what is popularly known as a series of remedies.

Joe acknowledges that his therapy is different from homeopathy. Since this forum contains advices that are non homeopathic too, there is no need to contradict anyone.

Let the patient decide whom to follow. After all he will leave the therapy when he sees that it is useless.

Read this thread once again and ignore the negative aspects of it.


I once again thank Dr.Luc.

gavinimurthy last decade
My apologies Murthy my intention was not to get you involved in this again.
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
i could not understand arnica single dose i have BP and sex weak so can i use it regularly? But how system i shall take it? I have heart weak also
nurnabi last decade
I am suffering from oa changes in both my knees and find difficulties in movement particularly while stepping up /down. My age is 54years and I am female.Moreover after a heavy fall in my room my right leg muscle near knee and lower thigh get inflamed and I am feeling numbness also even after two months of the accident and use of many types of medicine. moreover stepping up and down becomes very difficult for me now. I also feel too much rigidity in my right knee when I want to move from long sitting position in a chair. I have tried arnica 200 but problem persists. Please help me.
sghosh 8 years ago
Take one drop Rhus Tox 200C mixed in small amount of water. Only single dose, do not repeat.
Pain may increase within a few days but gradually it will improve.
maraheem 8 years ago
I am a patient of diabetic since almost 6 years and taking metformin morning & evening. I am using Arjuna+rauwolfia mother tq for bp. I wanted to use this.
ygprasad 5 years ago
Respected sir,
Can i apply same principle to arnica 200ch liquid and if yes then what is the dose

Thanking you!
[Edited by yadav718 on 2017-07-15 01:18:50]
yadav718 4 years ago
Hello, I am pregnant 30w now. I started taking arnica 30ch - 5granules dilutedin water everyday for a couple if months now, because I have a condition called blood clotting disorder ( blood clots eadily than normal).
Is it enough to take this dosage and continue till the end? I have read about wet dose but we dont have it in my country - Bulgaria. We have only arnica - 9ch, 15ch and 30ch in granules.
What is your advice?
Thank you
Dididecho 4 years ago
I want mention that I am using boiron homeopathic remedies.
Dididecho 4 years ago

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