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Gelsemium Sempervirens: $6.59Professional Constitutional Kit #1: $160.00First Aid Kit: $160.00


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Sabra? Passkey? others? Gelsemium & what to do when there's partial relief??

Hi, I tried asking this question before, but did not get it quite answered, I think maybe I wasn't clear enough, so I will try again.

In addition to the specifics of this question I think it relates to general understanding of homeopathy.

I get a type of headache for which I have discovered Gelsemium 30c one pellet works (at least so far) as well as Tylenol with codeine. Which is to say it works quite well. But not all the way (as neither does Tyl w/ cod).

I want to know what I might try to improve this yet further. To an all the way no headache that is.

I have been afraid to repeat the Gelsemium 30c in these instances unless the headache goes back to being full on, since I am told (by you gusys and by reading Hahn. right now) not to repeat a remedy once there is a definite amelioration.

Among other things I don't want to "ruin" the effectiveness of Gelsemium for future need. that as much a concern or more so than the dreaded "aggravation".

Possibilities I have considered are that it is not strong enough and that I might need to go to 1M. (no 200c says Passkey--see, I pay attention)

Or might need to use one of the other dosing methods like dissolving pellet in water and taking only a teaspoon or so forth.

Or that prior use of allopathic pain killers has created a situation where the Gelsemium in a sense "does not hold"--in which case maybe I need to clean out my system with Sulphur. ??? (at this time I am waiting for Nat Carb to arrive mail order to try for my similimum, but could do other things in meantime)

Or that after the use of Gelsemium some other remedy would then remove the remainer of symptoms.

Any thoughts and elucidations would be appreciated.
  Bodhitshe on 2005-06-10
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
If a remedy dont hold, its reasons for that, as this, the remedy is wrong, it supresses, and the return of the symptomes, keep you healthy.
If on other hand the remedy is partial, and keep cured a part of the picture, then you look for the next remedie.
If the remedie show sideffects..and these dont go after the remedie has worked through, find a remedie that covers this.
And if the remedie is rigth, no sideeffects, only bettering,but no full cure, then the potence is too low, or not suitable, why use of LM potences may be the answer.

But, in your case, i think youre a sulphur patient, and the use of sulphur in LMs, ascending gradually would be the answer.

Sulphur do take away the mistuning of the lifeforce,thats done by worng medications, regardless of what, but your use of painkillers do tell me straight out, sulphur.

Liverheadache, overstressed liver by toxins.
Hepar sulph may also be an alternative, in 200, one dose only if to test it.
And in order to stay healthy, or get better at all, well, simple as this, a example, a alcaholic cant get sober when drinking..
the same way cant a patient expect to get well, when using allopatic medications that do in fact create the problem.
allvis last decade
Maybe the Gelsemium did work all the way-- only took a long time, longer than I was expecting. I'm still not sure how to interpret this or where to go from here.

I am afraid of using Gelsemium much and "losing it" for when needed for acute headache.

OTOH on the positive side the headache eventually went away all the way over a week or so, but more interesting and perhaps important this weekend I had an exposure that would normally have produced a headache but did not. (Exposure to a veterinary office with all the anaesthesia, cleaning products and what not there.)

Perhaps more importantly while I took the Gelsemium for an acute condition of headache, my Chief Complaint of major fatigue improved somewhat.

So now I am wondering if I accidentally happened upon my similimum. And hoping that if so other things I did or took won't have messed that up.

If I were to graph how it went,

1. the headache had an immediate sharp aggravation (about 15 minutes)

2. followed by great improvement

3. (and then sleep--which could have been the fatigue aggravating or just sleep)

4.followed by waking with the head hurting again but not as much as it had in the first place,

5.followed by another (and final) dose of Gelsemium, followed by stopping hurting so much and more sleep,

6. followed by waking the next day with head not perfectly well, but tolerable.

6.5 and skin itching and burning which was far better than a severe headache, and also seemed to be a reasonable example of my body working the problem outwards toward my skin level.

7. But also more energy. !!!
(which again to recap isn't why I took the Gels. but is my CC.)

8. The energy is not as good now as it was the day after the Gelsemium, but not quite as bad as before it. (Tho I'm not sure that it is relevant any longer because I probably antidoted it accidentally or by having tried other homeopathic as suggested in above post back.)

I'd love to get more of that energy back again... but as I say, don't want to ruin my acute headache remedy by overuse.

What to do?

(and, btw, I'm not on any allopathics currently. Have been in past. Get headaches from all sorts of toxic exposures, such as herbicide, which I don't personally use, but run into all to frequently.)
Bodhitshe last decade
RE: my CC of "fatigue"

feels as follows:

like I have a very bad flu, but only the extreme utter fatigue and mental brain-fag parts, not the throat, conjestion or other symptoms

often achy all over, like have been hit by a car, but no actual injuries

like limbs are heavy (which supposedly means weakness, but subjectively it feels like body is unbearably heavy even though actually I am normal or slightly underweight)

it gets somewhat better with:

springtime (not too hot or too cold) weather

gets worse with:

toxic exposures

illnesses or even little physical problems like say a spider bite

extremes of temperature--esp damp cold and humid heat and changes from one to the other

emotional upset

failure to eat regularly
Bodhitshe last decade
it may help to explainyour reasons for ordering the nat carb to take - is it for the last post you described, the fatigue or for other?
erika last decade
Thank you Erica!

And as update, I was feeling lousy this AM and decided to take a 30c Gelsemium. And yes, whether palliative and suppressing, or curing, I think it helped again.

If you can highlight the following and use control+C to copy it, then Ctrl+v to enter it into the search box at left, it should bring up the thread where Nat. Carb. emerged as a likely remedy:

Thread title:

Help with finding my Constitutional remedy?

In gist Nat Carb ideas came from first my reading and using computer and trying to find a fit (which seemed most likely Phosphorus), then posting for ideas, then going back and reading more and deciding that Nat Carb made more sense in terms of psychological type, and also physical type than Phosphorus.

I might also add that Carcinocin as described by an article on segments and cycles in New Eng. J. of homeopathy made some possible sense, but I cannot get it here in USA.
Bodhitshe last decade
ok - well, I'll try and get the thread on nat carb but I'm fairly basic with computer controls!!! I'll read it tomorrow as it's getting late here now.:)

Gelsemium could be what you need for your headaches and could be a good acute remedy for a more chronic state (for example gelsemium can be an acute of the more chronic remedy causticum)- or it could be you need more and higher potency gelsemium.
without a full consult this is difficult to say.......
on the other hand gelsemium can be a good detox at times....
food for thought and I hope a bit helpful. I will try and give it a bit more thought tomorrow.
erika last decade
I'm going to try to paste it here on this thread if I can.

I'm realizing that one potential problem with analyzing oneself and looking for rubrics that fit is that there may be more tendency to color what is thought about by what one is reading compared to if a homeopath could manage to ask non-leading questions. But since there is no one to go to in person in my area I'm not sure how to avoid that.
Bodhitshe last decade
Here it is! I have to edit some to make it make sense now.

Title: Help with finding my Constitutional remedy?

From Bodhitshe on 2005-06-04

"OK. I think it is Phosphorus, but let me know if you think otherwise.

physical appearance:

fair skin, freckles, moles, various spots and marks,

sunburn easily

straight thick brown hair toward reddish

blue eyes

slim (was quite muscular prior to illness)

angular features, square jaw

long slim fingers


regarded as being "different" since childhood

quiet temperament

prob more introvert than extrovert--but started out early on as more extraverted prior to parental divorce and moves

sensitive to most everything--in physical, emotional, psychic realms, it seems to me.

likes nature, animals, esp dogs

intellectual does like things of mind -- seems slight disc. with Phos. ?
(current problems with cognitive troubles and brain fag, but still tend toward intellectual side compared to average population. But am much slower at thinking than used to be.)

likes chocolate and sweet things, ice cream...
but, discrepancy, likes soury, vinegary, pickled things too

(this made me thing maybe Sepia? and health symptoms include urine that turns red, and sometimes a dislike of bathing )

tends to be alone, but when alone longs for company... when there is lots of company tends to seek solitude (not sure what that fits1)

Untidy! longs for more tidyness


often a daydreamer, difficulty putting ideas into practical effect in real world

mild fear of lightning (but not especially worse symptoms during thunderstorms)

fear of fire

fear of catastrophe

fear of poverty

dreams of fire
dreams of trying to walk through water or other substance that inhibits progress

positive results in telepathy experiment, interest in religion, philosophical tendency

good listener, others like to discuss problems with me-- say I missed calling to be a psychiatrist/psychologist--but it may represent a lack of personal boundaries and ability to say no and get on with own business.

other of interest things, generalities, and physical problems etc.

don't smoke, do recreational drugs, or rarely ever drink any alcohol, don't care to do so, and sensitivities make it unpleasant

bothered by manmade strong odours

chemically sensitive (feel sick or get various other symptoms such as brain-fog, headache, extreme fatigue aggravated by chemical exposure)

headaches following chemical exposure, sometimes sun

heart / circulatory impairment (includes "Reynaud's syndrome" that toes turn cold and blue from impaired blood flow when it is cold)

dyspnea (with exertion, going upstairs, moving quickly to get phone etc.)

fatigue following even slight exertion

sometimes chest pain

sometimes abdominal pain

nearsighted since late teens
starting a little farsighted just recently (age 40)

cataract is beginning (and I just became able to see where it is in last few days, but not impeding any activity


can be visual disturbance along with headaches

lots of teeth problems (easily fractured, cavities, failure to have formed enamel properly in the first place)

tongue geographic, jagged edges, white coat on top when ill

[6/14/05--add: lots of history of vaccines--prob. more than usual for my generation because of two years spent in Brazil as a toddler. Lots of antibiotics and so on for various things.

major difficulty completing (and sometimes starting)tasks...housework, paperwork, etc. And feel disturbed by this and overwhelmed by that which is not done...adds a lot to the anxieties already mentioned.]


REPLY From rajivprasad on 2005-06-04

You may look at Natrum Carb also.It may be confirmed more strongly if most of the following symptoms are present:

aversion to or indigestion/heaviness from taking milk

strong aversion to strong sun/bright lights esp. due to the heat

desire to help others

avoiding going to a place where those you dislike are likely to be present

very shy/self conscious temperament

dislike for mathematics or quantitative subjevts in school

absorbs all pain at times of public humiliation but cries when alone

Hope it helps.

With regards.

My replies to Rajiv's post and questions, set off with "%%" and again, edited.

%%Thank you very very much for this reply--now I wonder why both Natrum Carb and Natrum Mur did not come up before as possibles to consider. ...%%

aversion to or indigestion/heaviness from taking milk


strong aversion to strong sun/bright lights esp. due to the heat

%%Yes--if sun is strong and it is hot. I like springtime sunshine very much.%%

desire to help others


avoiding going to a place where those you dislike are likely to be present


very shy/self conscious temperament


dislike for mathematics or quantitative subjevts in school


absorbs all pain at times of public humiliation but cries when alone

%%maybe, not sure about that%%

%%Can I be a Natrum and be chronically untidy? [and later I wondered if liking and feeling better in open air fit with Nat Carb] %%

From rajivprasad on 2005-06-05
One difference between a Nat Mur and Nat Carb normally is that the Mur is full of ill feelings for people who have caused harm/slighted/given pain etc. and inwardly enjoy the failures or traumas of such people. But the Nat Carb would feel a bit uncomfortable at the level of conscience at such vindictive thoughts. He/she simply avoids such people. Another characteristic of Nat Carb is gastric problems, a lot of belching, incarcerated flatus etc. Then they typically have dry skin especially around their face and the palms and back of hands. The skin of the hands may chap in the winter.

[cutting a bunch, Rajiv asked for more about my specific disconcerting physical symptoms, I replied: ]


1st, expl. in conventional mod med terms more or less, followed after by current disconcerting symptoms:

Over 10 yrs ago I was thought to have Lyme disease which is a spirochete from tick bite that causes a multitude of symptoms that I was then having such as fever, joint pains and swelling of joints, cognitive problems etc. etc. I was treated with hard core antibiotics. The joint pains and swelling got better, other things got worse. And in turn there were attempts to treat these other things Conventional modern med. style, meaning yet more drugs, esp Ibuprofen, Tylenol with Codeine, and some Cortisol, and Thyroid med.--I'm not even sure I can remember what all now. In addition I had had a lot of antibiotics, vaccinations, etc. for other things earlier in life. And while on things exposed to, add born as a Hanford nuclear site downwinder and happened to be travelling in area of Chernobyl at time of the explosion. There has also been a malignant melanoma surgically removed (no drugs except anaesthesia), and several blood tests show autoimmunity, and a brain scan showed either inflammation or demylenation or both.

Current troublesome symptoms:

Fatigue--from very little exertion, along with nonrefreshing sleep--impedes daily life extremely

Headaches--more than one type--most follow on exposure to toxic chemicals even in small amts. such as are virtually unavoidable in modern life it seems, esp. herbicide, insecticide, solvents, petrochemicals, formaldehyde (in all sorts of things like carpets etc.), etc., also food additives, colours, MSG, ethanol (this type of headache in acute form seems to respond to Gelsemium)

sun exposure headaches (am thinking to try Glonione or Bryonia if and when another one strikes)

reading related headaches, esp. too much computer reading, or could be electric field related since big overhead powerlines also seem to do this.

Any of these headaches are often accompanied by nausea, sometimes vomitting, sometimes chills and perspiration.

Cognitive impairment--(including memory, concentration, calculating, etc.) generally poor compared to what it used to be --which was originally very high-- fluctuates and seems to follow on with the headaches, except that sun doesn't seem to affect this much. Cognitive function is particularly improved by fresh open air, and particularly aggravated by chemicals and even just "stuffy" indoor air.

Dyspnea--shortness of breath with exertion, & climbing stairs

burning skin (sometimes itchy), esp with computer screen exposure--maybe I better hurry and get away from here!

Weakness and loss of muscle mass (if this makes any sense, in Aryuvedic terms I went from being a pitta to vata type, or from a mesomorph to an ectomorph)

a melanoma and needing to watch moles as they grow or change is disconcerting

the near and farsighedness are both disconcerting

the icy cold feet can be disconcerting

and the teeth problems which include fracturing teeth definitely disconcerting

less disconcerting include
nose bleeds

some neck and back pain (had prior injuries)

and oddity of urine that changes to colour to reddish when exposed to sunlight but only during attacks of illness following chemical exposure (Conventional mod med diagnosis on this one is coproporphyria).

Re: Help with finding my Constitutional remedy? From Bodhitshe on 2005-06-05
And also I was going to say that unlike Nat Carb I don't esp have abdominal distress, but then I got some, and remembered that I do sometimes have that. And when I do it is disconcerting.


Incidentally my situation seemed to follow the exact expected course under homeopathic theory--various treatments supressed more outward symptoms (like swollen joints)--and drove things inward and upward to more severe headaches, etc. even a cancer . (I'm not even sure I actually had Lyme disease, just the attitude was that something was wrong and it fit the picture plus some blood tests said maybe, so idea was that massive antibiotics should be given.)

Add to phys symptom list also but not esp. disconcerting to me:

sweats during sleep--this is only since the Lyme (? if it was? ) disease problem

low blood pressure with feeling of about to faint or bit of dizziness when standing quickly

The more I look at things I can find that give psychological profiles for Nat Carb the more it looks closer than Phosphorus.

Although the open air dislike is totally not me, and some physical manifestations fall more under phosphorus.

Reply From rajivprasad on 2005-06-06
Of course, it is not possible normally for any single remedy to match completely all the multifarious symptoms, modalities etc. as we are looking for a 'simillimum' i.e. something that is 'most similar' and not the same. Another important reason is that people's constitutional remedy can change over time as a result of major shocks to the person's system. E.g. change of residence, incompatible marriage, adverse experiences in work life, loss of dear ones and so on.


But in homeopathy, we treat the layer that presents itself to us at a given point of time.As that layer is removed taking away a number of irritating symptoms with it, a new layer i.e. a deeper one with its own concomitant symptoms which are mostly the patient's own symptoms from the past. Again you treat that and again that layer is removed. This way you reach the last constitutional layer and then try to treat the symptoms that are still troublesome. But by that time a patient becomes much much better.

To stop aggravations you can perhaps start with the Nat Carb 6, two drops or one pellet twice a day for a few weeks and see whether it helps remove your most troublesome current symptoms. By the way the headache, the lethargy, the mental fatigue etc. are all beautifully covered by Nat Carb. I suggest you definitely try it and then see if it helps or not. If it doesn't you can stop it.

Wishing you a perfect health.


Bodhitshe last decade
I would continue as you are doing with the gelsemium - taking another dose when needed, until your nat carb arrives.
once nat carb arrives wait until your symptoms indicate taking another dose of gelsemium and then instead of taking gelsemium begin the treatment with nat carb.
In this way you will see if it relieves the headache symptoms etc.

On the other hand - gelsemium is a very good remedy for your symptoms and you are doing well on it --- so why change??? so your alternative is to keep using gelsemium in a 30c until it no longer helps then take either the nat carb or gelsemium 50c instead.
Hope this helps, erika
erika last decade
Yes, thank you, Erika, for wading through this long post. Your reply helps very much.

When the Nat Carb comes I'll choose one or the other option and eventually let you know how it turns out.

Thanks again.
Bodhitshe last decade

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