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Tinnitus and High BP

Hi guys I need help with a friend of mine because my treatments have not had an effect on her. Recently she has been diagnosed with high bp – the bp is not so high in the mornings but at night it increases to around 170.

She had been taking mukta vati – the famous ayurvedic supplement to keep it under control but on the advice of some homeopath she took nat mur 200 which made the bp shoot up. She felt really bad the night she took nat mur.

I have been telling her to to take arnica and lachesis which have helped somewhat but not a great deal. Sometimes when her bp shoots up her body becomes extremely cold – it is at this time I told her to take lachesis which warmed up her body within 10 mins.

However, the high bp has given her extreme vertigo and tinnitus. She is constantly tired and feels like there is too much fluid in her head.

At this point I tried belladonna when she told me that she feels like water is rushing to her head and she feels like its like a tap almost that’s turned on inside her head. Belladonna did not have an affect and she felt like it made things worse.

The patient herself took one dose of bryonia too – this was not my recommendation as there is no discharge from the ears. This did not have any affect

Now I am thinking about either apis or cocculous but I do not want her to take multiple homeopathic meds so I am seeking the advice of senior professionals. She is in great discomfort and any help would be greatly appreciated.

The patient is 58 years old, easily irritated , slightly overweight and often has swellings of ankles (which is why im thinking about apis). She is definitely a worrier and panics easily.
  santinosharma on 2012-06-12
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Present the case here, and we can see what advice we can give.
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
1. ID
2. Age 58
3. Sex Female
4. Single/Married Married
5. weight 12 stone
6. Height …. 5ft2
7. country UK
8. climate Cold
9. List of your complaints
High BP, tinnitus, edema of feet, past UTI infections, hysterectomy

10. Since how long are you suffering from each complaint

High BP - last 6 months - tinnitus came with it on same day. - salt makes BP worse - very sensetive to it

11. Diabetic or non-Diabetic - Non Diabetic
12. Desire sweets/sour/salt - on a low salt diet now - no taste in particular
13. Thirst - dry mouth but little thirst
14. Tongue and Taste - tiongue clean
15. Current BP (without medicine and with medicine)

bp is normal in the morning and high at night

systolic readings are high 140*
dystolic readings are low - around 60
pulse is very slow and weak

16. What exactly is happening?
high bp, tinnitus, fluid imbalance in head,

17. How do you feel? depression now due to vertigo, nausea, anxiety, scared
25. Current and previous remedies/medicines you are taking or took in the past?

nat mur 200 - made things a lot worsee

been giving arnica and lachesis - when bp rises at night patient feels very cold so is given lachesis which warms up body

has tried bach flower remedies
mukta vati aayurvedic supplement for bp

allopathethic meds have had no effect

should apis be prescribed ? cocculous?

26. Family Background

father heart patient
mother has diabetes and bp

27. Educational Qualifications of the patient
very educated
28. Nature of work, what do you do for living? teacher - retired now
ur problem

31. Mind-behavior, anger, irritability, hurry, impatient…and so on.. How are you different from other persons, public speaking or not , you can describe all of the details about your behavior, love and affections.

very short tempered, irritated easily, suffered from menopause

32. Aggravation (increases-time, season,)& Amelioration (Decreases)

does not tolerate heat well, has some heartburn but not too much - mainly in chest region. stomach is fine
santinosharma last decade
ps - thanks for replying brisbane :)

appreciated - im quite stuck with this one
santinosharma last decade
personally i am either inclining towards

1. apis - logically if this gets rid of the edema then bp should go down and hopefully the trapped fluid /or imabalance of fluid in the ears causing vertigo

2. cocculous - as its the best remedy for vertigo and imabalance of fluid in ears

3. bartya carb - as this matches the symptoms in that it only lowers systloic pressure and does not affect dystolic

your thoughts pls

thank you
santinosharma last decade
What is the state of the patient though? There isn't anything here to define their general, emotional and mental state. This is not a very good intake form for bringing out the homoeopatic picture. Once the state is understand it is often easy to match that too a remedy.

Of those things presented, the only ones that might help lead to a remedy (via peculiarity) are:

Night time aggravation
Feeling very cold
Sensitive to salt
Short-tempered and irritable

While each of those would need to be expanded upon (when in the Night, exactly how or what kind of coldness, what are the triggers for the short-temperedness and what exactly does she do, say etc)

Other than that the case is too sparse of symptoms. Does she have the busy restless irritability and jealousy of Apis? Does she have the anxious worrying over the welfare of others at the cost of their own health that typifies Cocculus? Does she have the slow, simple, dependent nature of Baryta-carb?

Even if you are only looking at the physical symptoms (usually a mistake in homoeopathic prescribing) the general state needs to be determined and matched, not just isolated symptoms. Does she have the full, swollen ready to burst state of Apis? Does she have the slow, languid, heavy, almost paralytic state of Cocculus? Does she have the underdeveloped, dwarfish, atrophied and premature aging of Baryta-carb?

What about the miasm? Each of these three remedies belongs to a different one - Apis is tubercular, Cocc is sycotic, and Bar-c is syphilitic.

To really be able to choose a remedy with confidence, I think a more complete case would need to be taken.
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
thanks Brisbane

a very good response indeed

ok to give you more of a picture

she is definately irritable and does work like a bee thats why i suggested apis. she is constantly working , very organised, short tempered, very irritated easily, wants things her way, stubborn, arrogant, walks a lot , doesnt want to stay trapped in one area, likes to travel, likes the open air even when shes cold, stomach is fine apart from a little heartburn in her chest, she panics easily, is very independent and quite sharp, does worry over others over her own welfare, is quite intelligent, good sense of humour

im not sure what else to say....
santinosharma last decade
The problem here is that you obviously know the picture of Apis, so you are looking for the characteristics that justify the choice. This is reverse prescribing and can be risky (where you start with the remedy and work backwards finding reasons to give it). Case-taking and analysis should always start from ignorance of the remedy, and you allow the symptoms to both surprise and convince you of what the patient needs.

You have described Apis over Cocculus or Baryta-carb though, if you are only looking at those 3 remedies. You could also have described Nux-vomica, which is a differential in some ways with Apis.
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
Honestly speaking i did not know the picture of Apis and just described how well i know the patient (i am not as experienced a homeopath as you - and wouldnt call myself a homeopath - more a researcher into homeopathy)

this has helped me confirmed that apis may help so thank you very much indeed.

i also thought about nux vomica but in my experience it only ever suits people that are very slim and cannot gain weight easily. - it has hardly worked for the latter - for me anyway

thanks again

any other suggestions would be appreciated by you and other members
santinosharma last decade
That idea about Nux-vomica is incorrect. I have seen overweight patients needing this remedy. Nux-vomica is listed for obesity in the repertory.

Also, obesity in and of itself is an undifferentiated symptom, and so can actually be found in every remedy (just like headache, back pain, insomnia etc). It is the modalities and concomitants that determine the remedy, not the base symptom.
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
thanks for info re nux vomica - just in my experience its always worked better for slim people with digestive difficulties - what we call 'vata' in ayurveda

If ur interested in the case i thought id give you an update

...apis did indeed increase quantity and frequency of urine.BP dropped from a consistent 150 /70 in mornings to 120 /70 this morning and pulse rate increased from 50 to 60.

however, last night patient experienced night sweats and heart palpitations.

coccoulous was also administered last night but this has not shown any affect yet. - i doubt the heart palpitations would have been caused by cocculous but im not 100%.

kindly submit recommendations
santinosharma last decade
Well firstly, don't mix remedies. You will only create confusion. There is undoubtedly going to be aggravation after using Apis and if you change immediately to another remedy you may create other problems. If you choose a remedy, trust that choice and hold to it long enough to see what comes out of it.

Were the sweats and palpitations old symptoms?
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
the palpitations are new but the sweats are old.

the fact is that both her edema and bp went down - but u r right as the patient took both meds its hard to say which one caused it - but its more than likely the apis
santinosharma last decade
New update

patient came to see me today - we took a reading and bp reduced to 100/70

never been this low! and she feels better than yesterday

i am reluctant now to stop either remedy - but of course will decrease dosage and introduce little salt back into diet.

i believe the cure for bp lies with controlling edema for most patients. the same will cure tinnitus - needs to be researched more and i open this to people of have experience or problems in this area.
santinosharma last decade

[message deleted by simone717 on Thu, 14 Jun 2012 22:29:00 BST]
simone717 last decade
Hi santinosharma,

Please give her a single dose of Carbonim Sulf-1000 & see how that effects the tinnitus.

AsadGhumman last decade
Hi Asad

Thanks for posting but i thought about carbonic sulph too but in my past experience this has only treated those patients that have tinnitus with some type of discharge from their ear. this lady does not have this discharge.

the tinnitus is definitely linked to her bp which is why whenever it rises the tinnitus comes on strongly.

brisbane - i read that you have no unsolved case of tinnitus. can you please tell me what further info you require to help me here - I'm a little out of my depth and i really hate seeing this lady in so much pain and distress.

much appreciated guys
santinosharma last decade
I said that? That doesn't sound like something I would say.

She is getting results from treatment. Why are you anxious about it?
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
yes in one of your old posts i was reading

i am anxious as she is a family friend and i hate to see someone crying and upset. i know homeopathy takes time but i just want this problem to go away for her thats all :)
santinosharma last decade
Well my advice would be that as her practioner, if that is the role you want to take on, you need to remove yourself one step. It is hard to make rational decisions about treatment if you are emotionally involved with the patient. Don't let your feelings influence your decisions. What is in her best interest is to have someone who can support her but also maintain objectivity.

This is one of the reasons homoeopaths always say it is better not to treat friends and family.
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
can i ask you to please take over the case for this reason ?
santinosharma last decade
My own ill health prevents me from supervising cases at this time I am sorry.
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
thats fine - i do hope its nothing serious and will pray for your fast recovery

santinosharma last decade

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