The ABC Homeopathy Forum
How to stop a scary aggravation/new symptom
I have a 9 year old child on the autistic spectrum who is fairly high functioning pdd-nos. He has been receiving classical homeopathic care for about 2 years. We switched homeopaths about a year or so ago. My son's issues have been helped by homeopathy, sensory issues, communication with others, reduced seizure activity. He is generally much happier and more connected. With his present homeopath we have used stramonium for the most part for a number of months with great success - for the better part of the year. Prior to that he was on phosphorus that the hp felt was his constitutional - but his underlying issues needed to be dealt with the hp said before phos could be of help to him. He has been able to resolve past fears and bad things that have happened to him - abuse at the hands of an aide, losses of loved ones etc, fears from daily life, sensory stresses etc. However, the one area where he continues to have problems is the night - fear of the dark, night wakings, crying, sleep walking, often coming running screaming into our bed, which has gone on for years. This is one area that just never improves.Our homeopath suggested we dose him with mancinella at one point but it had no effect. Recently about 8 weeks ago he suggested bufo remedy. I did not really see how it was a good fit for him, other than having epilepsy and occasional masturbation, I did not see how this remedy fit him at all. I did not see his symptoms in there. Our homeopath is strictly classical and wants one dose high and dry only. Our previous homeopath given our son's sensitivities used to water dose him. After several rounds of stram, I said ok we will give the bufo a try. I gave him a water dose of 200c. Waited about 2 weeks and nothing happened - no change good or bad. Meanwhile the night time issues seemed to just be the same - maybe a bit worse, more sleep walking, crying, running into our bed even earlier, what we have lived with for years. So on my own I returned to stram and gave a water dose of 1M stram. Our son once again seemed to calm down a lot, especially in the waking hours. More sleeping in his bed - although not resolved, things seemed to improve. He was happier waking and sleeping.
Our hp was not happy I did this on my own, but he said now you will have to wait out the stram before giving the bufo again which he felt would be helpful - and in a dry dose this time. I waited almost 6 weeks and the other day dry dosed him with 200c bufo. Within 24 hours he had uncontrolled facial tics, blinking of eyes and twisting of his mouth and jaw. I was very disturbed, this had happened once with our prior hp where a remedy had been dosed in too rapid succession too high. After days of using Vicks, we finally gave him coffee and it stopped. We tried the same again this time - but no such effect. Our homeopath said to give coffee and menthol/camphor on the skin hourly. We did this for 5-6 hours. No effect, in fact the tics seemed worse. Our homeopath said that is all you can do. Said as this is a new symptom it is not an aggravation. And at this point bufo has to be anti doted so it is not longer due to the bufo. (unlike our prior experience where the same remedy had been given twice so the antidote worked)He said probably the stram was still working when I gave the bufo and it interfered with the action causing the tics. I asked about anti doting homeopathically with a remedy - but he said no, I could try the coffee vicks route for a few more hours. Otherwise, If the stram was working really well, I should redose it in the same potency and manner (water dose) that I did 6 weeks ago, to hopefully restart the positive effects it was having. We have done so and so far, our son seems perkier and happier but the tics are just as bad if not a bit more pronounced.
I am concerned about this - what if this does not go away after the stram? Our prior homeopath said that homeopathy is very 'forgiving' and things can be stopped or reversed unlike allopathic meds. My spouse who does not really understand homeopathy is besides himself as well. Is it possible that a new symptom like this will go away on its own, even if it is not an aggravation per se as our hp said? What else can be done if the stram dose does not help the tics? I am very scared and feel our hp is fairly matter of fact, even tried to say oh this is not remedy related. It is the only thing we changed in his daily regimen and the tics started immediately thereafter.
Would appreciate any input forum members might have. Thank you.
bflow on 2014-09-14
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
This new homoeopath seems somewhat irresponsible and pig-headed in my opinion. Why give Bufo if Stramonium had helped? Why give dry doses when split (wet) doses had helped?
It is rubbish to say the Stramonium was still working which is why the Bufo created new symptoms. Is this person trying to shift their mistake to you? That is what it sounds like to me. Stramonium is not still 'working' after 6 weeks. Bufo did this all on its own. The homoeopath could at least accept full responsibility for it.
I just cannot understand why this person did this. And what is more interesting to me is that they immediately want to go back to the Stramonium again because it has a positive effect - which is why it should have been continued with in the first place.
This person is a risk to the health of your child. I would not go back to them. This is the kind of person who makes terrible mistakes - they know enough to make significant changes with the remedies but refuse to shoulder the responsibility of their prescriptions.
What should have happened by now is the case retaken from scratch and either a new remedy prescribed or a new way to use Stramonium found (such as using LMs or higher potencies). Leaving it 6 weeks to fix a problem the homoeopath created is unethical.
It is rubbish to say the Stramonium was still working which is why the Bufo created new symptoms. Is this person trying to shift their mistake to you? That is what it sounds like to me. Stramonium is not still 'working' after 6 weeks. Bufo did this all on its own. The homoeopath could at least accept full responsibility for it.
I just cannot understand why this person did this. And what is more interesting to me is that they immediately want to go back to the Stramonium again because it has a positive effect - which is why it should have been continued with in the first place.
This person is a risk to the health of your child. I would not go back to them. This is the kind of person who makes terrible mistakes - they know enough to make significant changes with the remedies but refuse to shoulder the responsibility of their prescriptions.
What should have happened by now is the case retaken from scratch and either a new remedy prescribed or a new way to use Stramonium found (such as using LMs or higher potencies). Leaving it 6 weeks to fix a problem the homoeopath created is unethical.
♡ Evocationer last decade
bflow-
If you want to list your city, I can give
you options of other practitioners from
a list I have of homeopaths who
are recommended by other classical homeopaths in the usa.
If you want to list your city, I can give
you options of other practitioners from
a list I have of homeopaths who
are recommended by other classical homeopaths in the usa.
♡ simone717 last decade
Thank you for the replies. I do intend to return to our original hp- and have lost faith in our current hp. He is famous but very doctrinal and a strict classical homeopath who believes there is only one right way. I do think LM is the way to go in the future.
The usual antidotes are not working. The Stram redose just made the tics worse for a while and now they are the same. I believe my son is proving a remedy. I have read about zapping - but which remedy do I need to zap to stop the proving? Is he proving bufo or stramonium? From what I have read both have the element of muscle spasms and tics/twitches. My gut says it is bufo. As it was given later in time when the tics started and Stram never caused such issues. But could it have caused a proving of the Stram? Or am I off base with that. Since the Stram redose we have given lots of coffee and camphor/menthol rub. I would think the Stram redose has been antidoted at this point and we are back to just bufo issues. Which never responded to an antidote. Our son is back to his happy self now - peppy and less head congestion but the tics remain that started after bufo.
Has anyone zapped a remedy before with success? I know there must be a way to make this stop. I keep telling myself homeopathy would not cause an issue like this to be permanent would it? Our prior experience was that such a symptom was reversible.
I would appreciate any input people have here. Thanks.
.
The usual antidotes are not working. The Stram redose just made the tics worse for a while and now they are the same. I believe my son is proving a remedy. I have read about zapping - but which remedy do I need to zap to stop the proving? Is he proving bufo or stramonium? From what I have read both have the element of muscle spasms and tics/twitches. My gut says it is bufo. As it was given later in time when the tics started and Stram never caused such issues. But could it have caused a proving of the Stram? Or am I off base with that. Since the Stram redose we have given lots of coffee and camphor/menthol rub. I would think the Stram redose has been antidoted at this point and we are back to just bufo issues. Which never responded to an antidote. Our son is back to his happy self now - peppy and less head congestion but the tics remain that started after bufo.
Has anyone zapped a remedy before with success? I know there must be a way to make this stop. I keep telling myself homeopathy would not cause an issue like this to be permanent would it? Our prior experience was that such a symptom was reversible.
I would appreciate any input people have here. Thanks.
.
bflow last decade
Hi- Zapping is just made up lingo for
a more diluted dose.
I am sure Evocationer when he is on,
will tell you that the case has to be
re-taken and these new symptoms added
in to cover what is going on.
a more diluted dose.
I am sure Evocationer when he is on,
will tell you that the case has to be
re-taken and these new symptoms added
in to cover what is going on.
♡ simone717 last decade
It is hard to know exactly what has happened here. Provings themselves are short-lived, however in a patient with pathology that remains uncured, any remedy can stimulate the natural or even potential symptoms of the patient. The body produces symptoms as a defence, and if it perceives a remedy as a threat then it can react to it just like can to any other traumatic event.
I have occasionally seen students in clinic that presented many months after provings with new symptoms. Each time I repertorized the case just like I would any other case - and gave a remedy for all aspects of the case. At this stage, it can no longer be considered the remedy but the patient producing the symptoms, because the remedy does not stay in effect that long. Just like knocking someone on the head can cause long-term symptoms, so can a remedy, and you cannot look to blame the object that caused the knock at that point. The symptoms themselves will point to a remedy, which will cure as per normal homoeopathic rules.
When I have seen a patient overreact to a remedy, it is usually an opportunity for me to see the full picture of their disease. Any event is an opportunity to find a deep-acting remedy, not matter what it is. Every event that impacts on a person shows us something about their weaknesses, vulnerabilities, their potential future issues.
I have occasionally seen students in clinic that presented many months after provings with new symptoms. Each time I repertorized the case just like I would any other case - and gave a remedy for all aspects of the case. At this stage, it can no longer be considered the remedy but the patient producing the symptoms, because the remedy does not stay in effect that long. Just like knocking someone on the head can cause long-term symptoms, so can a remedy, and you cannot look to blame the object that caused the knock at that point. The symptoms themselves will point to a remedy, which will cure as per normal homoeopathic rules.
When I have seen a patient overreact to a remedy, it is usually an opportunity for me to see the full picture of their disease. Any event is an opportunity to find a deep-acting remedy, not matter what it is. Every event that impacts on a person shows us something about their weaknesses, vulnerabilities, their potential future issues.
♡ Evocationer last decade
I reached out to our old hp about taking on the case, but she is out of town and I do not know if she will want to jump into the case while my son is in such a state. She is more open minded to new ways although I think she may have studied with our present hp at one time.
Anyway, I kept reaching out to our current hp this weekend, and he kept saying that there is just this one symptom really - well the tics and head congestion and everything else is the same. This does not follow the textbooks in any way. This is not a proving etc, and no new case taking is in order. I kept telling him, well coffee and camphor for 48 hours have made no difference. And in addition to these symptoms we did have a brief low grade fever, and some public masturbation which we have not seen before either, and a lot of perseveration on prior bad things that have happened to him - saying the same thing over and over, like he is stuck. Not that this last has not happened before, but not as often since dosing stram. To me a lot of this dwelling on deceased loved ones and bad things that have happened to him, were present in his stram state. But our hp said if stram were still needed then the redose of stram would have helped the situation rather than make it worse or remain status quo.
I had read about the zapping method as a means of anti doting with the same remedy in multiple dosage cups, actually on this board I believe when searching anti doting. I understand what Evocationer is saying that this new situation may be a window to the real underlying problems and an opportunity for healing. But as a parent I am focused on making the tics stop at the moment. I cannot send him to school in this condition, and he is due to see his neurologist soon who will no doubt want to do tests and rx meds for it, so I need to have this one symptom recede/subside. Also it is massively disturbing and uncomfortable for him. So there is the practical side to anti doting so as to effect this.
Are you saying that trying to zap/antidote bufo with a dilute version of it or a lower dose serves no purpose and will not help the case? I thought the zapping was different than split dosing because you only do it one time to stop the symptom/aggravation. It is not a case of multiple dosing. Should the constant coffee and frequent camphor/menthol have already anti doted? Or are there times when they are not enough to antidote? I hope you see my dilemma here - wanting him to experience healing with a proper remedy but yet be functional in the meantime.
When he had tics after too soon a repeat of nat mur at a higher dose two years ago, this went on for 2 days and finally coffee and camphor made this go away. Is it significant that the same tics were present on another occasion too?
Sorry for the plethora of questions, but I am trying to understand this and what the best course of action is.
Anyway, I kept reaching out to our current hp this weekend, and he kept saying that there is just this one symptom really - well the tics and head congestion and everything else is the same. This does not follow the textbooks in any way. This is not a proving etc, and no new case taking is in order. I kept telling him, well coffee and camphor for 48 hours have made no difference. And in addition to these symptoms we did have a brief low grade fever, and some public masturbation which we have not seen before either, and a lot of perseveration on prior bad things that have happened to him - saying the same thing over and over, like he is stuck. Not that this last has not happened before, but not as often since dosing stram. To me a lot of this dwelling on deceased loved ones and bad things that have happened to him, were present in his stram state. But our hp said if stram were still needed then the redose of stram would have helped the situation rather than make it worse or remain status quo.
I had read about the zapping method as a means of anti doting with the same remedy in multiple dosage cups, actually on this board I believe when searching anti doting. I understand what Evocationer is saying that this new situation may be a window to the real underlying problems and an opportunity for healing. But as a parent I am focused on making the tics stop at the moment. I cannot send him to school in this condition, and he is due to see his neurologist soon who will no doubt want to do tests and rx meds for it, so I need to have this one symptom recede/subside. Also it is massively disturbing and uncomfortable for him. So there is the practical side to anti doting so as to effect this.
Are you saying that trying to zap/antidote bufo with a dilute version of it or a lower dose serves no purpose and will not help the case? I thought the zapping was different than split dosing because you only do it one time to stop the symptom/aggravation. It is not a case of multiple dosing. Should the constant coffee and frequent camphor/menthol have already anti doted? Or are there times when they are not enough to antidote? I hope you see my dilemma here - wanting him to experience healing with a proper remedy but yet be functional in the meantime.
When he had tics after too soon a repeat of nat mur at a higher dose two years ago, this went on for 2 days and finally coffee and camphor made this go away. Is it significant that the same tics were present on another occasion too?
Sorry for the plethora of questions, but I am trying to understand this and what the best course of action is.
bflow last decade
I think it is important to differentiate between a 'proving' and a 'patient reaction'. A proving is the artificial disease symptoms that are created directly by the remedy.
Provings are short-lived and once they are over you cannot antidote them. All the coffee and camphor in the world cannot stop something that is no longer happening.
However, a patient can then react in various ways to the proving. Their vital energy can simply shrug it off and go back to their normal state - this is what you would expect in most cases.
A patient may however appear to stay in the state - in part or even in whole (although this is rare). There are a variety of reasons for this. Hypersensitivity is one, the presence of tissue changes is another, and low vitality is third possibility. A fourth possibility is that the remedy actually suppressed one or more symptoms and caused new symptoms to appear because the vital force has to find an outlet somewhere else.
The correct remedy can cause a proving, and this is usually an issue with dosage or potency. Lower potencies of the same remedy can be most helpful here.
If it is not correct, the approach to fixing the problem becomes mores important. This is especially the case when suppression has taken place, as it must be reversed with the correct remedy (for the whole state) to take the patient out of harm's way.
Further suppression by using a medicine just for one symptom or small set of symptoms can further suppress, and there is danger in this approach.
People wrongly assume that when someone has been changed long-term in a negative way by homoeopathic treatment they are 'proving' a remedy. This is not true, but it leads to all sorts of practices that can further complicate the case.
If he has had tics appear on other remedies, then this is a condition that exists within him, and so it needs to be cured within him.
Provings are short-lived and once they are over you cannot antidote them. All the coffee and camphor in the world cannot stop something that is no longer happening.
However, a patient can then react in various ways to the proving. Their vital energy can simply shrug it off and go back to their normal state - this is what you would expect in most cases.
A patient may however appear to stay in the state - in part or even in whole (although this is rare). There are a variety of reasons for this. Hypersensitivity is one, the presence of tissue changes is another, and low vitality is third possibility. A fourth possibility is that the remedy actually suppressed one or more symptoms and caused new symptoms to appear because the vital force has to find an outlet somewhere else.
The correct remedy can cause a proving, and this is usually an issue with dosage or potency. Lower potencies of the same remedy can be most helpful here.
If it is not correct, the approach to fixing the problem becomes mores important. This is especially the case when suppression has taken place, as it must be reversed with the correct remedy (for the whole state) to take the patient out of harm's way.
Further suppression by using a medicine just for one symptom or small set of symptoms can further suppress, and there is danger in this approach.
People wrongly assume that when someone has been changed long-term in a negative way by homoeopathic treatment they are 'proving' a remedy. This is not true, but it leads to all sorts of practices that can further complicate the case.
If he has had tics appear on other remedies, then this is a condition that exists within him, and so it needs to be cured within him.
♡ Evocationer last decade
Thank you Evocationer for this enlightening explanation. If only my homeopath would have spelled it out thus for me, it would have saved me a lot of anguish and expense. So until I verify with him if the bufo was the right remedy or not I cannot redose with a lower potency. I suspect it might be right but the one dose high and dry was too much for my son. Again I can't know either if there was suppression or not- how is that determined?
If it was never right-which my spouse feels is the case- then that is where the case retaking comes in and new remedy selection.
My spouse who does not understand homeopathy is livid and fears this is permanent. I am confident properly handled it can be reversed. We have only had progress with homeopathy other than that other episode with the tics. As you say there is something there that the correct remedy can help address perhaps.
I may be back tomorrow with more questions after I speak to the homeopath then.
Thank you.
If it was never right-which my spouse feels is the case- then that is where the case retaking comes in and new remedy selection.
My spouse who does not understand homeopathy is livid and fears this is permanent. I am confident properly handled it can be reversed. We have only had progress with homeopathy other than that other episode with the tics. As you say there is something there that the correct remedy can help address perhaps.
I may be back tomorrow with more questions after I speak to the homeopath then.
Thank you.
bflow last decade
Suppression tends to follow a similar pattern whenever we see it.
A medicine is given not for the whole picture but just for part of it. That part (the subset of symptoms) disappears. The patient may seem happier for that, but within a certain period of time (which varies a lot - days, weeks, months) a new disease (subset of symptoms) appears OR the symptoms that remain behind become worse. The patient my be worse mentally or emotionally. Even more unfortunately, the original symptoms may reappear on top of this worsening of their general state or new symptoms.
Normally what we would do in such a situation is look at the new symptoms or the new qualities the old symptoms might now have, and add those into the overall picture to make a prescription.
A medicine is given not for the whole picture but just for part of it. That part (the subset of symptoms) disappears. The patient may seem happier for that, but within a certain period of time (which varies a lot - days, weeks, months) a new disease (subset of symptoms) appears OR the symptoms that remain behind become worse. The patient my be worse mentally or emotionally. Even more unfortunately, the original symptoms may reappear on top of this worsening of their general state or new symptoms.
Normally what we would do in such a situation is look at the new symptoms or the new qualities the old symptoms might now have, and add those into the overall picture to make a prescription.
♡ Evocationer last decade
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