What is Homeopathy & Warning Signs of Incompetent Homeopaths _{Page 4 of 8}

deleted
[Edited by Rama2016 on 2017-07-20 12:01:56]

right on man..
I get it..

I am visiting this thread after long time ,I see numerous posts of MrRama are deleted hence I culd not get what is he saying ? can any one tel me why his posts are deleted ?

bapu4,

Since leaving this forum,I have been watching what is happening on here.I deleted the posts because my opinion entirely differs from that of those who believe in homeopathy.There are people like me who disbelieves that homeopathy works and call it Fa-ke.Clearly, homeopathy does'nt work at all and everytime Science has proved it.I take the opinions of the Scientists who says Homeopathy is useless for treatments.If some or more people like you believes that it works,I am not going to question any of you on why and how it works,but all I know that is it can't work beyond placebo and this is my opinion.
[message edited by Rama2016 on Sun, 17 Jul 2016 09:26:15 UTC]

The proof of the pudding is in eating.

Can you reverse cervical displasia grade 3 with placebo?

Can you cure heel spurs with placebo?

Can you cure chronic acidity with placebo?

I am giving examples from my own experiences with my own family.

Homeopathy is not only for self limiting acute problems which can perhaps be treated with a placebo, but also for real chronic problems.

gavinimurthy,

Yes, the proof of the pudding is in eating.Homeopathy is useless.Already, I have taken more than 3 years of homeopathic treatment for my skin problem Lichen Planus without any cure. The disease was effectively controlled only by taking conventional medicines, but I could not find even 1 % cure through Homeopathy. For this problem, I met 4 Homeopathic doctors in my place Chennai. How all of them can be inefficient ?.So, the problem has to be with Homeopathy and this is why their prescribed medicines failed to give me a cure. I write this not because I need a treatment here, but to confirm that Homeopathy did not work. You may say that Homeopaths can be wrong whereas Homeopathy is not. This is an usual answer by homeopaths when their treatments are unsuccessful.
[message edited by Rama2016 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016 09:32:26 UTC]

Why does homeopathy sometimes appear to work?

There are dozens of reasons why homeopathy may appear to work for some individuals.

For example, people will often confuse correlation with causation. The human body has a very robust and amazingly intricate immune system, which is capable of fending off all sorts of nasty things all on its own. When someone starts to feel better shortly after taking a homeopathic remedy, they might assume that the remedy has hastened their recovery. Actually, there is no good reason to believe these two events are related. They may have recovered just as quickly without the homeopathic intervention.

Another example is what are known as placebo effects. This is where an inert substance, such as a sugar pill, can be shown to improve the condition of a patient simply because the patient expects it to. Someone using homeopathy may start to feel better because they expect to feel better, not because the homeopathy has actually done anything to cure them.

Scientists have devised a technique called the Randomised Controlled Trial, which corrects for errors in thinking, placebo effects and other biases. Through these trials, scientists have been able to reliably demonstrate that, when all sources of error are removed, homeopathy does not, in fact, work.
[message edited by Rama2016 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016 13:37:49 UTC]

The following link show how a 9 month baby died without being treated by conventional medicines.The parents of that child are Homeopathic doctors and they prevented their child from getting a real medical treatment and let their child to die.Anyone having common sense would have treated the child by going to a real doctor and treating the child by real medicines.But they treated their child with Fa-Ke homeopathic medicines.

Please read as :
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/11/06/a-real-death-by...
[message edited by Rama2016 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016 13:47:23 UTC]

Although it’s possible that modern medicine might have been able to prevent this death, one thing’s for sure: Treating the baby with water, which is all that homeopathic remedies really are, rather than effective medicine certainly didn’t make it more likely that this baby would survive. Worse, the baby almost certainly suffered far more than she should have.

shalom rama ,
I copy and pasted ur words in case u decide to delete messages u wrote--so others can understand the thread of conversation..


Yes, the proof of the pudding is in eating.Homeopathy is useless.Already, I have taken more than 3 years of homeopathic treatment for my skin problem Lichen Planus without any cure. The disease was effectively controlled only by taking conventional medicines, but I could not find even 1 % cure through Homeopathy. For this problem, I met 4 Homeopathic doctors in my place Chennai. How all of them can be inefficient ?.So, the problem has to be with Homeopathy and this is why their prescribed medicines failed to give me a cure. I write this not because I need a treatment here, but to confirm that Homeopathy did not work. You may say that Homeopaths can be wrong whereas Homeopathy is not. This is an usual answer by homeopaths when their treatments are unsuccessful.
Why does homeopathy sometimes appear to work?

There are dozens of reasons why homeopathy may appear to work for some individuals.

For example, people will often confuse correlation with causation. The human body has a very robust and amazingly intricate immune system, which is capable of fending off all sorts of nasty things all on its own. When someone starts to feel better shortly after taking a homeopathic remedy, they might assume that the remedy has hastened their recovery. Actually, there is no good reason to believe these two events are related. They may have recovered just as quickly without the homeopathic intervention.

Another example is what are known as placebo effects. This is where an inert substance, such as a sugar pill, can be shown to improve the condition of a patient simply because the patient expects it to. Someone using homeopathy may start to feel better because they expect to feel better, not because the homeopathy has actually done anything to cure them.

Scientists have devised a technique called the Randomised Controlled Trial, which corrects for errors in thinking, placebo effects and other biases. Through these trials, scientists have been able to reliably demonstrate that, when all sources of error are removed, homeopathy does not, in fact, work
The following link show how a 9 month baby died without being treated by conventional medicines.The parents of that child are Homeopathic doctors and they prevented their child from getting a real medical treatment and let their child to die.Anyone having common sense would have treated the child by going to a real doctor and treating the child by real medicines.But they treated their child with Fa-Ke homeopathic medicines.

Please read as :
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/11/06/a-real-death-by...
Although it’s possible that modern medicine might have been able to prevent this death, one thing’s for sure: Treating the baby with water, which is all that homeopathic remedies really are, rather than effective medicine certainly didn’t make it more likely that this baby would survive. Worse, the baby almost certainly suffered far more than she should have.

Thank you for doing that.
[message edited by Rama2016 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016 19:32:54 UTC]

John,

I expect a reply from bapu.But it seems he is not going to reply me.

John,

This man is James Randi and he is a skeptic.Once he challenged the homeopathic council that if Homeopaths could prove homeopathic dilutions were not just water i.e., from dilutions 13C onwards,he would give them 1 Million dollars as a prize to them.But he won that challenge by proving them that those Homeopathic dilutions are just water not for a single time,but he won for twice.He proved that Homeopathy does not work.

Please watch the video as :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xATPzZ0z68c
[message edited by Rama2016 on Mon, 18 Jul 2016 19:28:39 UTC]

rama,
u know I am of conviction in homoeopathy principle and application..i know maybe call me foolish..but its what I do.....just call me a cool fool..sounds nicer than just 'fool'..

JS

Why should I call you a coolfool or a fool ?.

My point is that Homeopathy does'nt work since it is useless.
[message edited by Rama2016 on Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:34:45 UTC]

John,

Homeopathy cannot work better than a Placebo.Infact,it does'nt work.I would like you and other Homeopaths and those who come here for a treatment must watch this strange science of placebo.Please watch it as:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcPwIQ6GCj8
[message edited by Rama2016 on Tue, 19 Jul 2016 08:56:48 UTC]

John,

I have already said that "If some or more people like you believes that it works,I am not going to question any of you on why and how it works,but all I know is that it can't work beyond placebo and this is my opinion."

I think you would have read it when I replied bapu.

I for one believe that modern medicine has its place in modern world, but I hasten to add that I am not referring to allopathy, commonly practiced by millions of doctors worldwide. The practice of giving medicines that suppresses symtoms is allopathy.

Modern medicine is that branch of medicine which deals with emergencies. I will be a fool if I refuse to go to a cardiologist if I were to have heart attack and believe
homeopathy will cure me.

George Vithoulkus the famous
homeopath says that if your homeopath is unable to relieve you of asthma/chest congestion symptoms
in three days, go to a conventional doctor and take antibiotics. Revert back to homeopathy for the next
episode with a better homeopath.

Even Hanemann the founder of homeopathy talks about incurable cases. If your vitality is too low then homeopathy can help you only to some extant. In such cases even modern medicine will fail.

It is to difficult to cure auto immune diseases with homeopathy. However it offers superior palliation compared to allopathy.

I shall continue.
[message edited by gavinimurthy on Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:17:25 UTC]

Lichen planus is normally treated by steroids and for the ignorant it looks to be very effective. But stop the medication for a few months and it is more than likely that it will come back with vehemence.

Some people are given lifelong immune suppressants and their quality of life deteriorates.

Homeopathy too may not cure it in the literal sense, but it can help without any of the side effects of continuous use of steroids.

I shall continue.

Present science may not be able to explain the mechanism of action of homeoparhic medicines. That alone will not make the therapy a hoax.

Who knows..one day it may happen..efforts are on and there are results that prove the efficacy of homeopathy. BARC recently had a study about homeopathy. Google and read it.

I am a member of Randi's forum. Most of them play to the tune of MNC drug companies. These companies can't survive if homeopathy picks up. Read about Vithoulkus's fight with Randi. Google about it. It is too long to write here.

gavinimurthy,

You are talking on the basis that Homeopathy works,but my opinion is that it does'nt work at all.

Science has everytime proved that Homeopathy cannot work and proved it to be water and it contains nothing else and no effect for a cure.If you start to google it,you'll come to know it.

It takes lot of time and effort to understand the philosophy of homeopathy. It is also true that there are many many homeopathic doctors who practice it without really understanding the underlying philosophy.

However let me bring out certain points relevant to the present discussion.

Many are aware that homeopaths talk about acute and chronic cases. But only few are aware that homeopathy talks about incurable cases also.

In fact Organon itself has many postulates which tells us about how to treat incurable cases. In such cases the goal is palliation. Not cure.

Even Hanemann accepted that all cases are not curable with homeopathy. The competent homeopath knows this and accepts this.

I will write separately about incurable cases. For the present discussion, it is enough to know that

1) Majority of the problems that people go now a days for allopathic treatment can be handled by homeopathy at a fraction of the cost and with better results.

2) Don't rely on homeopathy in emergencies. Go to a hospital at the earliest.

3) Be cautious when dealing with autoimmune diseases. It is a long long path and tell your patient in advance.

4) Homeopathy doesn't do miracles. Understand its limitations, but use its power to treat many many day to day issues ,both acute and chronic.

5) Assess your patient's vitality and be clear whether you are treating him towards a cure or palliation. Make it clear to him.

Now open for discussion.

The following information taken from a website on homeopathy exposes it to be a Fa-ke one.Everyone should read it as :

Fa-ke Medicine: Why Is Homeopathy Still In Use?
November 19th, 2009 by Steve Novella, M.D. in Better Health Network, Quac-kery Exposed

Homeopathy, as a cultural phenomenon, remains an enigma. In the two centuries since its invention it has failed to garner significant scientific support. In fact, developments in physics, chemistry, biology, and medicine have shown the underlying concepts of homeopathy to be wrong – guesswork and speculation that leapt in the wrong direction.

It turns out, like does not cure like. This is nothing more than sympathetic magic – popular at the time but now considered nothing more than superstition without any scientific basis.
It also turns out that diluting a substance does not make it more potent – this nonsensical idea (ridiculed even in the 19th century) violates the laws of thermodynamics, and the chemical principle of mass action. This is especially true when you dilute a substance beyond the point where chance would have even a single molecule of active ingredient left behind. The background noise of chemicals in homeopathic water is orders of magnitude greater than the signal of whatever had previously been diluted in it.

I also understand that water does not have a magical memory of the vibrations of what was diluted in it. Transient interactions of water molecules does not, by any stretch of the imagination, confer upon water the ability to store and transmit complex chemical information from a solution to a tablet to a biological system.
It is therefore demonstrably true, even with simple high school level science, that the plausibility of homeopathy, for all practical purposes, and to the extent that it is possible to make such statements within the methodology of science – is zero.

If this were not enough, putting aside the non-existent plausibility of homeopathy and the staggering failure of two centuries to validate any of its principles, clinical trials of homeopathic remedies have failed to reliably detect any effect above and beyond placebo effects.

Therefore, in the eyes of science, homeopathy = total fail. It should be laid to rest and relegated to a footnote in the history of science – a pre-scientific idea that survived into modern times as pseudoscience. We can squeeze it in somewhere after healing crystals and before humoral theory and iridology.

But here comes the enigma – why does homeopathy persist at all? It seems that after the rise of science-based medicine in the early 20th century homeopathy was marginalized, but was able to survive because it had already entrenched itself sufficiently in politics and society. It then flew under the radar until the recent rise of CAM – the successful re-branding of fraudulent and unscientific modalities as “natural” and “alternative”.

So successful was this re-branding that the scientific community was partly cowed by the incessant demands for being “open-minded” and for “academic freedom.” This caused many scientists who should have known better to forget themselves, to look the other way while advocates slowly inserted nonsense into the health care structure and academic institutions.

We are beginning to see a push back in the scientific community. Michael Baum and Edzard Ernst have recently published a commentary in The American Journal of Medicine which reflects the new found “permission” within the medical community to once again call nonsense nonsense, and close the door on failed therapies.

Should we keep an open mind about astrology, perpetual motion, alchemy, alien abduction, and sightings of Elvis Presley? No, and we are happy to confess that our minds have closed down on homeopathy in the same way.

They then give a detailed justification for this attitude – a sufficient record of basic science and clinical failure to justify the conclusion that homeopathy cannot and does not work.

There has been criticism from other avenues as well. The World Health Organization (WHO) has traditionally taken a very permissive approach to unscientific medical modalities, motivated by a desire to be “open” to indigenous medicine. The WHO is a political organization, after all, and sometimes politics gets in the way of science.

But they are also advocates for world health, especially for vulnerable populations. It was brought to their attention by an organization called Sense About Science that homeopaths were pushing ineffective homeopathic treatments for malaria, TB, and HIV/AIDS. This forced the WHO to make the following clarifications (among others) regarding their position:

Dr Mukund Uplekar: TB Strategy and Health Systems, WHO: “WHO’s evidence-based guidelines on treatment of tuberculosis…have no place for homeopathic medicines.”
Dr Teguest Guerma, Director Ad Interim, HIV/AIDS Department, WHO: “The WHO Dept. of HIV/AIDS invests considerable human and financial resources […] to ensure access to evidence-based medical information and to clinically proven, efficacious, and safe treatment for HIV… Let me end by congratulating the young clinicians and researchers of Sense About Science for their efforts to ensure evidence-based approaches to treating and caring for people living with HIV.”

Dr Sergio Spinaci, Associate Director, Global Malaria Programme, WHO: “Thanks for the amazing documentation and for whistle blowing on this issue… The Global Malaria programme recommends that malaria is treated following the WHO Guidelines for the Treatment of Malaria”.(These guidelines do not include any use of homeopathy.)

Homeopathy is no longer flying under the radar. While pushing worthless nostrums for the worried well may be tolerated, they can no longer hide the fact that symptomatic treatment of self-limiting conditions is simply the foot in the door for hardcore Quac-kery – the treatment of serious and even life-threatening illnesses with worthless remedies.

The WHO has recently run up against homeopathy again, this time with respect to the H1N1 pandemic and vaccine. While the WHO is trying to stem a pandemic with a vaccination program, homeopaths seem to be doing everything they can to frustrate this public health measure.

The Swiss Society of Homoeopathic Physicians was recently warning pregnant women not to get vaccinated against H1N1. This forced WHO vaccines chief Marie-Paule Kieny to make the following statements:
“This (advice) may result in putting pregnant women and their fetuses at risk of severe consequences in case of pandemic influenza virus infection.

“We … regret that the recommendation of the Swiss Society of Homoeopathic Physicians does not take WHO recommendations in this matter into consideration,” she said.

This is also not an isolated incident of homeopaths warning against the vaccine, claiming that homeopathy can treat the flu and prevent the pandemic. A Google search of “flu” and “homeopathy” leads to numerous homeopaths and homeopathic groups making similar claims. The National Center for Homeopathy writes:

Homeopathy has a long and impressive track record in epidemics of all kinds, including influenza, and we are confident of its potential now.

Homeopaths argue that homeopathy was effective in treating the 1918 H1N1 pandemic. Their reliance upon historical records, however, is demonstrably absurd. Such data is uncontrolled and highly unreliable. It reflects their preference for reliance upon low quality data rather than higher quality controlled data.
While the current generation of scientists and regulators are beginning to wake up to the fact that homeopathy is dangerous Quac-kery, the public is still largely uninformed. Homeopathic products are often marketed simply as “natural” leading to widespread confusion in the public as to what, exactly, homeopathy is. Most people believe it is a synonym for herbal or natural remedies.

I encounter many patients and people with these false assumptions, and they are often shocked to learn the truth about homeopathy.
We need to have an open and transparent discussion in our society about homeopathy. The science has spoken – homeopathy is a failed belief system that has no place in modern health care. It is also a great example of the dangers of allowing a system of medicine that is based upon pseudoscience to flourish. Such systems will never limit themselves to “harmless” symptomatic treatments.

Given the evidence and the state of the science, the only responsible position is to completely dismantle homeopathy and close the door on this pseudoscience once and for all.

*This blog post was originally published at Science-Based Medicine*

I perhaps can claim that I am one among thosewho googled extensively about homeopathy.. both the negative and positives about it.

I read all that you are referring to and much more. I was much more skeptic than you about homeopathy and used to argue like you.

But once I started to study homeopathy, basically to prove that it is a hoax, I understood what a wonderful therapy it is.

Click my name and read some of the philosophy of homeopathy. If you believe it is water based on some stuff on Internet, It is clear that you have not read/googled enough about the other side of the coin and read enough about homeopathy. Your( and other peoples who have similar views ) efforts to belittle homeopathy have failed miserably at least in India.

Look at the thriving practice homeopaths have now a days. Results only bring patients back. Rhetoric has no effect on them.
[message edited by gavinimurthy on Tue, 19 Jul 2016 17:07:35 UTC]

Alternative explanations for "cures" :

A variety of alternative explanations have been offered for how homeopathy, if the remedies themselves are ineffective, may appear to cure diseases or alleviate symptoms:

Unassisted natural healing - time and the body's ability to heal without assistance can eliminate many diseases of their own accord

Unrecognized treatments - an unrelated food, exercise, environmental agent or treatment for a different ailment, may have occurred

Regression toward the mean - since many diseases or conditions are cyclical, symptoms vary over time and patients tend to seek care when discomfort is greatest, they may feel better anyway but because the timing of the visit to the homeopath they attribute improvement to the remedy taken

Nonhomeopathic treatment - patients may also be getting nonhomeopathic care simultaneous with homeopathic treatment, and this is responsible for improvement though a portion or all of the improvement may be attributed to the remedy

Cessation of unpleasant treatment - often homeopaths recommend patients stop getting conventional treatment such as surgery or drugs, which can cause unpleasant side effects; improvements are attributed to homeopathy when the actual cause is the cessation of the treatment causing side effects in the first place

Lifestyle changes - homeopaths often recommend diet and exercise, as well as limitations in alcohol or coffee consumption and stress reduction, all of which can increase health and decrease symptoms

The placebo effect - the intensive consultation process and expectations for the homeopathic preparations can result in the release of endorphins or other body-effecting chemicals which alleviate pain or other symptoms, or otherwise affect an individual's biology

Psychological healing - the care, concern and reassurance provided by a homeopath as part of the consultation can assure the patient the symptoms are minor and easily treated, or alleviate tension that could exacerbate a preexisting condition. This can be particularly effective when physicians have limited time with the patient or are unable to provide a diagnosis or treatment.