The ABC Homeopathy Forum
attn: everybody
Single dose homeopathy works even for Indians.single dose doesn't mean taking it once and forgetting about it,particularly for acute problems.
The medicine taken till you establish a reaction,either aggravation or amelioration is considered a single dose.
It varies from patient to patient and depends on his age,vitality,sensitivity,and many more factors.
While the above is true for acute cases, a single dose, literally, is best for chronic problems.
A single dose of sulphur may start acting from the third week onwards, and before that you may not see any change.
If you repeat it in haste, you may spoil the case.
There are different guidelines for treating acute problems,and chronic problems.
All long lasting cures are made only if you follow the principles laid down in Organon.
Palliation can be done with allopathy, mixopathy, and so called non classical homeopathy.
Most of the times it leads to suppressions, sometimes after many years.
We can't ignore it.
There are recorded cases of childern becoming dull in their studies after getting palliated for their asthma.
There are many many recorded cases where suppression by homeopathic medicines led to severe complications.
There are scores of doctors in India who strictly follow the principles of Organon, and they are the most succesful ones.
I applied the principles of Organon for myself, my family and my neighbours. My success rate is around 80%.
I have reiterated this many times before, and still caution people against the dangers of falling for easy solutions and quick prescriptions.
It is your health you are playing with.
Murthy
Important
Information given in this forum is given by way of exchange of views only, and those views are not necessarily those of ABC Homeopathy. It is not to be treated as a medical diagnosis or prescription, and should not be used as a substitute for a consultation with a qualified homeopath or physician. It is possible that advice given here may be dangerous, and you should make your own checks that it is safe. For example, taking mother tinctures can lead to serious side effects, and stopping prescribed medication without first consulting a physician can also endanger your health. If symptoms persist, seek professional medical attention. Bear in mind that even minor symptoms can be a sign of a more serious underlying condition, and a timely diagnosis by your doctor could save your life.
bandarbabu2000 on 2006-10-09
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
He he he he...he ....Murty!
By those standards Joe De Levira , at the age of 77 years, should be a crippled man ...coz he is taking a dose of Arnica everyday for 10 years.
The rule you are mentioning doesn't apply to all meds...only to few specific meds.
Great way to mislead and scare people who have limited knowledge of homeopathy.
(Sorry Joe...no offence meant to you).
Pankaj Varma
By those standards Joe De Levira , at the age of 77 years, should be a crippled man ...coz he is taking a dose of Arnica everyday for 10 years.
The rule you are mentioning doesn't apply to all meds...only to few specific meds.
Great way to mislead and scare people who have limited knowledge of homeopathy.
(Sorry Joe...no offence meant to you).
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Dear members,
I would like to contribute to this debate between classical and non classical homeopathy and prescribing methods etc.But first of all i would request everyone to debate in a manner which encourages an honest exchange of ideas so that the forum members who have limited knowledge of homeopathy can get a fair idea of both sides of the argument and there is no acrimony and bad blood between homeopaths active on this forum.
A problem with the so called classical homeopathy is what exactly is meant by it.Normally, people tend to use it for the Kentian method of high potency, single dose, wait and watch method.This is unfortunately not what Hahnneman recommended in the 5th and 6th editions of the Organon.The 5th Organon was available in the time of Kent but he never cared to practice its suggestion of the C potency remedies in water, succused a few times, and then repeated as often as necessary.Sometimes even daily in the case of extremely stubborn cases.Hahnemann clearly says that by this method he had succeeded in curing his patients much faster than the earlier dry dose, single dose, wait and watch, 4th Organon method.Sometimes the time taken for cure was reduced by as much as 4 times.
I suggest to everyone to read two very important books by Dr.Luc De Schepper, one of the best and the most respected homeopaths in the world today who has personally treated successfully over 1.5 lac (150,000)patients using the 5th and 6th organon methods.These two books are 'Hahnemann Revisited' and 'How to achieve and maintain the Similimum'.
The fallacy of equating classical homeopathy with the single dry dose at long intervals method is due to the undue influence of Dr.James Tyler Kent, who no doubt was a great homeopath with tremendous contributions to homeopathy, but who never cared to either read or practice the 5th edition Organon methods of prescribing.
The 6th edition Organon was unfortunately not published for more than 50 years after Hahnemann's death, as a result of which this fallacy has become so deeply ingrained that we are having acrimonious debates of this kind among homeopaths. The 6th edition introduced the LM potencies, which are much deeper and faster than the C potencies and are repeated as often as needed to speed up the cure.In my personal experience, i have often asked my patients to repeat even daily when needed and when they were not aggravating with each dose.
I also salute the selfless spirit of people like Pankaj and Joe who give so much of their time and effort in the service of the people here on this forum.I also respect the desire of people like Jacob and Murthy to uphold the traditions of classical homeopathy.But let us take this opportunity to go back and read what Hahnemann actually wrote in the 5th and 6th edition Organons, and The Chronic Diseases.If that is too much, then at least read the books of a great contemporary classical homeopath like Dr.Luc De Schepper, whom Joe also respects so much.
Lastly, i appeal to Pankaj in the Divine Name of Satya Shree Shree Sai Baba, the embodiment of Love and Wisdom on this planet to again get back to his loving and caring self and spread health and happiness with a smile as he normally does.
I hope no one takes any offense by this unsolicited interruption in this debate.In that case, please accept my apologies in advance.
I would like to contribute to this debate between classical and non classical homeopathy and prescribing methods etc.But first of all i would request everyone to debate in a manner which encourages an honest exchange of ideas so that the forum members who have limited knowledge of homeopathy can get a fair idea of both sides of the argument and there is no acrimony and bad blood between homeopaths active on this forum.
A problem with the so called classical homeopathy is what exactly is meant by it.Normally, people tend to use it for the Kentian method of high potency, single dose, wait and watch method.This is unfortunately not what Hahnneman recommended in the 5th and 6th editions of the Organon.The 5th Organon was available in the time of Kent but he never cared to practice its suggestion of the C potency remedies in water, succused a few times, and then repeated as often as necessary.Sometimes even daily in the case of extremely stubborn cases.Hahnemann clearly says that by this method he had succeeded in curing his patients much faster than the earlier dry dose, single dose, wait and watch, 4th Organon method.Sometimes the time taken for cure was reduced by as much as 4 times.
I suggest to everyone to read two very important books by Dr.Luc De Schepper, one of the best and the most respected homeopaths in the world today who has personally treated successfully over 1.5 lac (150,000)patients using the 5th and 6th organon methods.These two books are 'Hahnemann Revisited' and 'How to achieve and maintain the Similimum'.
The fallacy of equating classical homeopathy with the single dry dose at long intervals method is due to the undue influence of Dr.James Tyler Kent, who no doubt was a great homeopath with tremendous contributions to homeopathy, but who never cared to either read or practice the 5th edition Organon methods of prescribing.
The 6th edition Organon was unfortunately not published for more than 50 years after Hahnemann's death, as a result of which this fallacy has become so deeply ingrained that we are having acrimonious debates of this kind among homeopaths. The 6th edition introduced the LM potencies, which are much deeper and faster than the C potencies and are repeated as often as needed to speed up the cure.In my personal experience, i have often asked my patients to repeat even daily when needed and when they were not aggravating with each dose.
I also salute the selfless spirit of people like Pankaj and Joe who give so much of their time and effort in the service of the people here on this forum.I also respect the desire of people like Jacob and Murthy to uphold the traditions of classical homeopathy.But let us take this opportunity to go back and read what Hahnemann actually wrote in the 5th and 6th edition Organons, and The Chronic Diseases.If that is too much, then at least read the books of a great contemporary classical homeopath like Dr.Luc De Schepper, whom Joe also respects so much.
Lastly, i appeal to Pankaj in the Divine Name of Satya Shree Shree Sai Baba, the embodiment of Love and Wisdom on this planet to again get back to his loving and caring self and spread health and happiness with a smile as he normally does.
I hope no one takes any offense by this unsolicited interruption in this debate.In that case, please accept my apologies in advance.
♡ rajivprasad last decade
We are talking basically on the way to prescribe on internet forums.
As far as repeating a potency in water doses is concerned, it is assumed that a complete case is taken, and the prescriber is sure of the remedy. Then only the repetetion will hasten the cure.
However, if you take the liberty of prescribing on scant and sketchy information, the best bet is to prescribe a single dose and wait and watch approach.
This way, even if your remedy choice is wrong, the damage is limited.If your remedy choice is right, it still works, may be a bit slowly.
However, if your remedy choice is wrong/partially indicated, repeating the medicine at frequent intervals is bound to cause problems for sensitive people.
LM potencies are not available,in many parts of the world, and even in India, they are not available in most of the cities.
Moreover, the case management while using LM potencies has to be very very regular, and it is not advisable to do so online.
Yes.the 6th edition of Organon talks about repeating the medicine even for chronic problems, in LM potencies, but it also talks about taking a complete case, not prescribing in haste..the duties ad responsibilities of a prescriber, and many many more issues.
It is not a fallacy to advocate the single dose wait and watch approach for chronic problems, as it is the least damaging method,even in case the prescriber selects a wrong/partially indicated remedy.
The prescriptions on internet are rarely based on totality, and as such,if the patient wants to take the risk with an unknown prescriber, what I suggested is the safer way.
Educating patient doesn't mean scaring him.It is very easy to prescribe medicines based on keynote symptoms.Sometimes they may work too. But, it is a hit and miss approach, and not in the best interests of the patient.
Many knoweldgable people who are capable of prescribing, hesitate to do so, not because they don't have compassion, but rather because they have it.
Murthy
As far as repeating a potency in water doses is concerned, it is assumed that a complete case is taken, and the prescriber is sure of the remedy. Then only the repetetion will hasten the cure.
However, if you take the liberty of prescribing on scant and sketchy information, the best bet is to prescribe a single dose and wait and watch approach.
This way, even if your remedy choice is wrong, the damage is limited.If your remedy choice is right, it still works, may be a bit slowly.
However, if your remedy choice is wrong/partially indicated, repeating the medicine at frequent intervals is bound to cause problems for sensitive people.
LM potencies are not available,in many parts of the world, and even in India, they are not available in most of the cities.
Moreover, the case management while using LM potencies has to be very very regular, and it is not advisable to do so online.
Yes.the 6th edition of Organon talks about repeating the medicine even for chronic problems, in LM potencies, but it also talks about taking a complete case, not prescribing in haste..the duties ad responsibilities of a prescriber, and many many more issues.
It is not a fallacy to advocate the single dose wait and watch approach for chronic problems, as it is the least damaging method,even in case the prescriber selects a wrong/partially indicated remedy.
The prescriptions on internet are rarely based on totality, and as such,if the patient wants to take the risk with an unknown prescriber, what I suggested is the safer way.
Educating patient doesn't mean scaring him.It is very easy to prescribe medicines based on keynote symptoms.Sometimes they may work too. But, it is a hit and miss approach, and not in the best interests of the patient.
Many knoweldgable people who are capable of prescribing, hesitate to do so, not because they don't have compassion, but rather because they have it.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 last decade
Dear Rajiv,
Thankyou for your very balanced and informative intervention.
And thank you for many other things you have written in your post.
Yes this debate is un-necessarily keeping me away from helping more people. But my only purpose of posting rejoinders was to save the people... who have less knowledge of homeopathy... from being mislead (and getting scared).
For that reason I have also been quoting from homeopathic books so that the faith in the system is not lost because of this debate.
I respect your wishes ...to continue helping more people.
Best regards,
Pankaj Varma
Thankyou for your very balanced and informative intervention.
And thank you for many other things you have written in your post.
Yes this debate is un-necessarily keeping me away from helping more people. But my only purpose of posting rejoinders was to save the people... who have less knowledge of homeopathy... from being mislead (and getting scared).
For that reason I have also been quoting from homeopathic books so that the faith in the system is not lost because of this debate.
I respect your wishes ...to continue helping more people.
Best regards,
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Murthy,
Just sermonising will not help.
Take up cases and do the case taking and prescribing....as you are preaching.
Let people say you are good !! Rather than self praise.
See the long list of people waiting to get advice here on ABC.
If you have a point of view on homeoapthy...make it by all means and let the readers decide.
But , don't stand on a pedestal and find faults with others. That comes from insecurity and lack of faith in your own ability.
Best wishes,
Pankaj Varma
Just sermonising will not help.
Take up cases and do the case taking and prescribing....as you are preaching.
Let people say you are good !! Rather than self praise.
See the long list of people waiting to get advice here on ABC.
If you have a point of view on homeoapthy...make it by all means and let the readers decide.
But , don't stand on a pedestal and find faults with others. That comes from insecurity and lack of faith in your own ability.
Best wishes,
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
care is to be taken especially in chronic cases, in acute cases frequent repeation may be permitted in some cases.In chronic cases short acting remedies in low potency may be repeated if the required.
malaria last decade
Debate on the points I made is most welcome.
Personal attacks may please be avoided.I gave enough reasons why I will not prescribe with out taking a full case.
People tend to stoop down to personal attacks, when they can't defend their point with logic and knowledge.
Murthy
Personal attacks may please be avoided.I gave enough reasons why I will not prescribe with out taking a full case.
People tend to stoop down to personal attacks, when they can't defend their point with logic and knowledge.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 last decade
I have posted this on another thread. Worth mentioning here too.
----------
Much progress has taken place in Aeronautics after the Wright Brothers first flew their aero-model made from bicycle parts.
So also in Homeopathy...much more progress has been made after Dr. Hanhemann propounded his initial Hypothesis.
Also Homeopathy is called an 'ART'...not a Science. So that you can try and master different strokes.
Science is precise....Art is not....different strokes give different results ....sometimes more than expected.
--------
Best wishes to all.
Pankaj Varma
----------
Much progress has taken place in Aeronautics after the Wright Brothers first flew their aero-model made from bicycle parts.
So also in Homeopathy...much more progress has been made after Dr. Hanhemann propounded his initial Hypothesis.
Also Homeopathy is called an 'ART'...not a Science. So that you can try and master different strokes.
Science is precise....Art is not....different strokes give different results ....sometimes more than expected.
--------
Best wishes to all.
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
What is that 'Progress' since Hahn..time?
What are the principles that govern the new thinking?
Does the label of 'Art' allow anything and everything which can't be justified?
Are people on the forums guinea pigs to experiment with, and practice your 'art'?
Murthy
What are the principles that govern the new thinking?
Does the label of 'Art' allow anything and everything which can't be justified?
Are people on the forums guinea pigs to experiment with, and practice your 'art'?
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 last decade
Murthy,
People who come here for some help already have simple knowledge of homeopathy.
They are doing their own case taking and prescribing...we are only showing them some direction.
Some are coming here to seek a second opinion on what their local homeopath has prescribed.
Some are coming here to seek guidance on their own understanding of homeoapthy.
All are net savvy and have free access to the whole net and other forums on homeopathy. Many use these resources to full advantage...as can be seen from their posts and e-mails.
Many have their own homeoapthic software for selecting the constitutional med. They coem here to seek clarifications.
Many make cross checks privately thru e-mails with other members of the forum.
So your contention of people being guinea pigs is absolutely baseless and malicious.
I again say...'pl. examine ..where you are coming from?'.
I think attempts are being made to reduce the popularity of ABC Forum....out of jealousy or for commercial reasons.
Pankaj Varma
People who come here for some help already have simple knowledge of homeopathy.
They are doing their own case taking and prescribing...we are only showing them some direction.
Some are coming here to seek a second opinion on what their local homeopath has prescribed.
Some are coming here to seek guidance on their own understanding of homeoapthy.
All are net savvy and have free access to the whole net and other forums on homeopathy. Many use these resources to full advantage...as can be seen from their posts and e-mails.
Many have their own homeoapthic software for selecting the constitutional med. They coem here to seek clarifications.
Many make cross checks privately thru e-mails with other members of the forum.
So your contention of people being guinea pigs is absolutely baseless and malicious.
I again say...'pl. examine ..where you are coming from?'.
I think attempts are being made to reduce the popularity of ABC Forum....out of jealousy or for commercial reasons.
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
I am a fan of ABC forum, and I appreciate it's open policy.
On forums like these, difference of opinions do prevail, and have to be debated in a sensible way.
I will still say that 'quick' prescriptions based on sketchy information tantamounts to playing with the health of the unfortunate seekers.
Many of the seekers might have heard about homeopathy, a few might have read a few books, but that is not enough to understand the gravity of trouble they are going to face by following hasty prescriptions.
Murthy
On forums like these, difference of opinions do prevail, and have to be debated in a sensible way.
I will still say that 'quick' prescriptions based on sketchy information tantamounts to playing with the health of the unfortunate seekers.
Many of the seekers might have heard about homeopathy, a few might have read a few books, but that is not enough to understand the gravity of trouble they are going to face by following hasty prescriptions.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 last decade
Dear Friends,
Now we are having a good debate and i think it is only going to help calrify the stands of both the camps.Now, having agreed that classical homeopathy need not be confined to the Kentian high potency, wait and watch method, which is basically a 4th and pre 4th organon method, let us come to other issues.
Of course, while writing my point of view, i assumed that any homeopathic prescriber, before prescribing would take due care of all the facts of the case before him, would seek other symptoms, data etc. from the patient to clarify the presenting picture, look up the repertory, materia medica, draw upon his past experience etc. to confirm the most appropriate remedy.Without taking all this due care, i don't see the point behind suggesting any remedy at all.Why would any one do it?What does he gain from it?
It is my strong belief that anything which hangs around for a long time has some basis to it.Be it homeopathy, yoga, acupuncture, TCM or anything.Similarly, in homeopathy there is a strong school of keynote prescribing, with giants such as Guernsey, H.C.Allen, Koppikar, Burnett, P. Sankaran (Rajan Sankaran's father) having made strong arguments in its favour.I myself use it often with great success.The problem is not with this method by itself, but in not knowing when to use it.I am not boasting and i am sure those who know me at different forums would agree that i am not of the attention seeking type.Of all the cases where i have used keynotes to prescribe, my success is close to 85-90%.But the main reason for this is not the use of keynotes alone, but also understanding the essence of the case and understanding whether the keynote symptoms truly represent that essence.Whenever one finds three or more outstanding keynotes of a remedy in a single case, i am sure that the remedy will work,This is even confirmed by Hering's three legged stool observation.
Another thing which prevents damage to the patient's system is an understanding of the Hering's observations of a cure.If a homeopath does not understand the Hering's laws and prescribes without any regard to the direction in which the symptoms are moving, then obviously he is doing more damage than any allopath could do.
But once these basics of Homeopathy (Organon, the chronic diseases, Hering's laws of cure, signs of suppression and palliation etc.) are thoroughly understood and one has a thorough grasp of the polychrests, then that makes for a good homeopath.In my opinion at least.It is a sacred duty of all of us to constantly study, enhance our knowledge through studying and sharing our knowledge (that is one of the main advantages of internet) and then give of us selflessly for the further spread of Homeopathy.Believe me, the golden time of Homeopathy is coming again.It is making a tremendous surge all over the world.Let us homeopaths not fight like in the past and lose this opportunity to demonstrate the power and beauty of this noble 'science' as well as 'art' as Pankaj calls it.
Let us argue and debate as it only enhances our knowledge.But let us not indulge in personal attacks.It is my earnest hope that both sides will respect my appeal.
With lots of love and respect to all the contributors at this forum.
Rajiv
Now we are having a good debate and i think it is only going to help calrify the stands of both the camps.Now, having agreed that classical homeopathy need not be confined to the Kentian high potency, wait and watch method, which is basically a 4th and pre 4th organon method, let us come to other issues.
Of course, while writing my point of view, i assumed that any homeopathic prescriber, before prescribing would take due care of all the facts of the case before him, would seek other symptoms, data etc. from the patient to clarify the presenting picture, look up the repertory, materia medica, draw upon his past experience etc. to confirm the most appropriate remedy.Without taking all this due care, i don't see the point behind suggesting any remedy at all.Why would any one do it?What does he gain from it?
It is my strong belief that anything which hangs around for a long time has some basis to it.Be it homeopathy, yoga, acupuncture, TCM or anything.Similarly, in homeopathy there is a strong school of keynote prescribing, with giants such as Guernsey, H.C.Allen, Koppikar, Burnett, P. Sankaran (Rajan Sankaran's father) having made strong arguments in its favour.I myself use it often with great success.The problem is not with this method by itself, but in not knowing when to use it.I am not boasting and i am sure those who know me at different forums would agree that i am not of the attention seeking type.Of all the cases where i have used keynotes to prescribe, my success is close to 85-90%.But the main reason for this is not the use of keynotes alone, but also understanding the essence of the case and understanding whether the keynote symptoms truly represent that essence.Whenever one finds three or more outstanding keynotes of a remedy in a single case, i am sure that the remedy will work,This is even confirmed by Hering's three legged stool observation.
Another thing which prevents damage to the patient's system is an understanding of the Hering's observations of a cure.If a homeopath does not understand the Hering's laws and prescribes without any regard to the direction in which the symptoms are moving, then obviously he is doing more damage than any allopath could do.
But once these basics of Homeopathy (Organon, the chronic diseases, Hering's laws of cure, signs of suppression and palliation etc.) are thoroughly understood and one has a thorough grasp of the polychrests, then that makes for a good homeopath.In my opinion at least.It is a sacred duty of all of us to constantly study, enhance our knowledge through studying and sharing our knowledge (that is one of the main advantages of internet) and then give of us selflessly for the further spread of Homeopathy.Believe me, the golden time of Homeopathy is coming again.It is making a tremendous surge all over the world.Let us homeopaths not fight like in the past and lose this opportunity to demonstrate the power and beauty of this noble 'science' as well as 'art' as Pankaj calls it.
Let us argue and debate as it only enhances our knowledge.But let us not indulge in personal attacks.It is my earnest hope that both sides will respect my appeal.
With lots of love and respect to all the contributors at this forum.
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
Look at the suggestions being given here.
Majority of them are based on inadequate information.
I am not against keynote prescribing. But, as you say the essence has to match.
It is not easy to become a Guernsey or Koppikar. I doubt very much if they will allow prescriptions like those that are being floated around here.
Murthy
Majority of them are based on inadequate information.
I am not against keynote prescribing. But, as you say the essence has to match.
It is not easy to become a Guernsey or Koppikar. I doubt very much if they will allow prescriptions like those that are being floated around here.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 last decade
Murty,
There are different ways of identifying symptoms.
Your way and my way are different. So you take much longer. That is the art.
We have had someone here who kept on doing case taking for months...and still did not have an answer.
Besides...people have a way of matching their symptoms with drug picture on their own...once we suggest some med (s).
best
Pankaj Varma
There are different ways of identifying symptoms.
Your way and my way are different. So you take much longer. That is the art.
We have had someone here who kept on doing case taking for months...and still did not have an answer.
Besides...people have a way of matching their symptoms with drug picture on their own...once we suggest some med (s).
best
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
When I started reading materia medica, I used to feel I have a few symptoms that match the drug I am reading.
It happens with most of the beginners. It doesn't mean all medicines will help them.
So, if a person can self prescribe, by taking a suggestion from you, and then reading on..hats off to him.
Do you know that even good doctors consult aother homeopath for their problems, as they can't assess themselves, without bias?
If someone is taking months in case taking,it is one extreme..
Blurting out a medicine that comes to your mind after reading one or two symptoms is another extreme..
Both are deplorable.
Murthy
It happens with most of the beginners. It doesn't mean all medicines will help them.
So, if a person can self prescribe, by taking a suggestion from you, and then reading on..hats off to him.
Do you know that even good doctors consult aother homeopath for their problems, as they can't assess themselves, without bias?
If someone is taking months in case taking,it is one extreme..
Blurting out a medicine that comes to your mind after reading one or two symptoms is another extreme..
Both are deplorable.
Murthy
bandarbabu2000 last decade
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Important
Information given in this forum is given by way of exchange of views only, and those views are not necessarily those of ABC Homeopathy. It is not to be treated as a medical diagnosis or prescription, and should not be used as a substitute for a consultation with a qualified homeopath or physician. It is possible that advice given here may be dangerous, and you should make your own checks that it is safe. If symptoms persist, seek professional medical attention. Bear in mind that even minor symptoms can be a sign of a more serious underlying condition, and a timely diagnosis by your doctor could save your life.