Congrats ABC _{Page 5 of 8}

Rajiv,

The trouble is, many members here, from time to time, step a wee bit out of line. What happens next is that the retaliation is greater, and then the original poster retaliates more harshly and so on. So the whole thread gets more and more ugly.

What SHOULD happen, is that at the moment someone steps out of line, whoever it is directed to should refuse to stoop to the lower level.

You yourself are always reasonable, and an example of what I'm after from other members!

Simon

Dear Simon,

Thanks for your kind words.My heart bleeds at this 'endless fight'.We are all brothers as homeopaths.Let us help the needy folks.Let us not fight.I appeal to all the prescribers.The world is very large if our hearts are large enough.The forum will become bigger and accomodate all of us if we show bigger hearts and love for one another.

I am not happy at 90 hits a day.By God's grace we shall generate 9000 hits within three-four years.Let us stop this friends.Once and for all.Joe has helped many people, so has Pankaj, so has Kuldip/Praveen, Jacob, sajjadakram, Murthy and so on.I too am trying to help in my own way.Lets make it a collective effort rather than a 'ego' fight.

Rajiv

P.S. to Mr.Murthy,

There seems to be some misunderstanding.I did not mean anything against you.You seem to have misinterpreted something.I apologize to you even if i have unknowingly hurt you.You are like an elder brother to me.

Rajiv

I have a right to ask a mmeber ----who claims some qualifications in homeopathy-----about the verification of the same. No matter how famous or connected he is. Same was done with Dr. Deoshlok.

Why the whimper now ????

Pankaj Varma

I rest my case. I hope this is now self evident.

And for the record to all, I have made no 'claims' here or anywhere else. If anyone who I have treated (i.e those who actually matter)wishes to know my credentials, please feel free to e-mail me.


-Jacob.

Inspite of a barrage of disrespects towards me by the member...I continued to ask my questions in a decent way.


Pankaj Varma

-shakes head in disbelief-

Pankaj,

What happened with Deoshlok was done in a pretty shameful way; that really isn't what we should be aiming at.

Yes, you have a right to ask Jacob his qualifications, and a right to expect a decent reply.

Rajiv, well said.

Dear Pankaj,

There is more to life than thinking in terms of 'whimper' and 'roar' and 'lion' and 'goat'.Strong men do not shout louder.Look at your Guru.He has not roared or shouted to earn respect.Why can't you behave with love being such a staunch disciple of his?That is the question.

What kind of spirituality is this to spurn the offer of 'love' and 'peace'?Is it not an insult to your revered Guru?I like your spirit of service.It is best to do it with love and with respect for fellow homeopaths.

Certainly forgiveness is a more noble emotion than revenge.Spiritual people don't seek revenge.Otherwise waht is the meaning of those lofty thing that you write on your 'spiritual thread'.

With warm regards,

Rajiv

No. He gave up all rights to ask me anything when he became personal and showed himself a fool some time ago, and again, you are showing favour to this member, despite his use of personal comments such as 'whimper', and the fact he is again initiating argument. why is this?

Hahnemania,

To the casual observer, it does seem that you are evading Panakaj Varma's questions. If you give him a direct answer to a direct question, that will help put this behind us.

Simon

I am evading nothing, and as stated above I am quite happy to provide my credentials to anyone who I have treated here. The man and his opinions are irrelevant to me.

and I will ask again, why are you showing favour to this member, despite his use of personal comments?

Jacob, our posts overlapped. I thought 'whimper' was aimed at me, and I took it to mean why shrink back from getting an answer. I did not take it as a personal slight.

In the same sentence, you are calling a member a name and accusing me of bias in favour of the member. He is merely questioning a claim you have made, in the same way you have questioned claims made by others.

It seems reasonable to me.

Simon

Dear Simon

I was glad to note that you have finally stepped into this ongoing controversy which was precipitated by Murthy shadowing the posts of every one of the resident prescribers on the ABC comprising Pankaj, Kuldeep, Mohan and I who have been the backbone of the ABC for some years, since June 2003 to be precise in mine. You will observe that Murthy who first registered about 2 years ago preferred to be exclusively on the Hpathy forum from which he was kicked out and then decided to infest this once peaceful Homeoapthic forum ably aided by the resident self confessed witch Nisha and now Hahnemann and they have all succeeded in turning the ABC into a battle ground which is far removed from the original purpose for which it was founded and which is now the laughing stock of the world. I must admit that I feel a sense of sadness that you have permitted it to degenerate to the level that it is at today and you must take the blame for not using your administrative power to stop this controversy before it reached the pitch it is at today.

Murthy rightly claimed credit for increasing the number of posts from 50 which was the case up to recently to 90 during the course of the brief period that he has spent here. He has succeeded in sowing the seeds of raw hatred against us all and you must understand that it takes a lot of our time to be compelled to respond to the inane posts of these trolls which I frankly do not enjoy doing although it brings out the best in my literary skills which I specialized in throughout my career. It also prods my aging mind which in a way is good for it to perform as I have done successfully for the last 77 years especially when I am faced with a challenge. You must remember that in responding to his taunts, this is done at the expense of my own professional work and also of helping the patients.

The time has come for you to use your administrative powers as the moderator of this forum and to specify to all the trolls that they must behave, as you have done for the first time in many months above. It is a pity that you have permitted trolls of this caliber to shadow every one of our posts and you must know that your laissez faire attitude that you have chosen is doing untold damage to your forum. It is also the reason for an unwarranted wastage of our time in responding to these inane posts, which we can use for the good of the patients who depend on us for help.

I have tried to persuade you in the past that trolls must never be permitted on the ABC but you have always stated that you prefer to have free speech on the ABC where everyone is welcome to voice an opinion. You will observe that today it is not a matter of free speech that is concerned. It is more that fact that these trolls have taken upon themselves the onus of questioning each and every one of the prescriptions that I and the others make on the grounds that they are not classical. They pretend to be the only source of classical prescriptions but it is sad to note that the number of times that they have tried to help their patients have resulted in the patients either leaving the forum or not responding to their classical prescriptions. It seems very surprising to me on what grounds their prescriptions can be considered any more or less classical than those that I make which I have always been based on my experience dating back over 25 years on practicing my own brand of the 'this for that' attitude to homeopathy also now known as Joepathy which the majority of homeopathy are now using in the Indian subcontinent. I have always sought to bring Homeopathy out into the open, into a process of logical application which has shown more positive results than the classical interpretation of this science which has for some years remained within the fold of a select few so called classical homeopaths who prefer to have it that was to enable them to reap the rich rewards of the exclusive classical interpretation of this precious science, usually without any regard for the patient's well being. There are many instances on this forum which you can refer to where the patient posts his complaint in agony after having undergone treatment from a classical homeopath and discover within a few days or even hours that my Joepathy has helped them to overcome their ailment. I have always maintained that the interest of the patient is paramount and it is not the definition of whether the remedy that I prescribed was classical or Joepathy. All I am interested in ensuring is that the patient is healed as quickly as possible and I believe that I have lead the revolution in this approach to homeopathy which is now fast eclipsing the classical method which I am convinced will die out in a few years in the future as the classical hopes to keep on fooling all the people (patients) all the time.

I would like to draw your attention to the position that obtained on the NCH to which I was invited to join about a year ago. I soon discovered that I was subjected to the same level of insults and interference I suffered on the ABC by its resident group of trolls who were also self confessed skeptics. I made representations to the owners of the forum, which was the Government of Pakistan and they finally decided after about 6 months when I refused to participate in the discussions that enough was enough and they banned everyone whom they considered a troll and even went to the extent of banning some of my own friends whom I had requested to question my posts to elucidate more information on the method I use which is now accepted as Joepathy.

I would suggest that you read some of the posts that have been fired up and down on the ABC yesterday and today and I do hope that you will maintain a strict control of the ABC and restore it to the peaceful position that it enjoyed a few months ago till the invasion.

Joe De Livera

Again, I have made no claims, here or anywhere else.

And what business is it of this man where I have studied, it is not, I do not aknowledge him as part of my peer group, and it is only to these people who I 'answer'.

Yes I have called him a fool, because this is exactly how he behaves. Do you actually read some of his posts? Check out the arguments with Murthy, the man thrives on argument and making personal comments, but you never say anything to him, why is this?
Why is it only when one of us respond to this that you intervene?

I have also not questioned claims made by others unless they are calling themselves 'Doctor' which Homoeopath or otherwise, they are not.

And okay at not taking it as a personal slight, but in the context of the other things which come out of this mans mind, it is very easy to see the meaning behind his words, you seem to only see what you want Simon, and that isn't impartiality at all.

and there we are again ^^^ more personal comments against us, are you going to do something about this, or ignore it as you do with Mr Varma?

Dear Joe,

Do you know that there is a book called 'The Prescriber' written by Clarke which indicates the most often indicated remedy for different diseases and conditions.It has hundreds of remedies for hundreds of conditions based on Clarke's own and other homeopaths' clinical experiences.So, 'this for that' brand of 'homeopathy' is not something new.We don't to give it a new name.It is a part of homeopathy only, though has become very popular in the Indian sub-continent.

I just thought i will share this info with you.So we should perhaps call it 'Clarkepathy', though i wonder if Clarke would be happy about all this.Because he was a proud 'homoeopath'.

Let us stop this quarrel and not provoke it further.

Rajiv

And again on another thread not 5 minutes later.

Re: a r n i c a - for anything and everything ... From Joe De Livera on 2006-11-18

'Dear Mohan,

I missed you on the ABC for a few days and am glad to read your post.

It is the advent of Murthy and Jacob Scot that has turned the once peaceful ABC where patients would post their problems in the hope of a cure and we the resident prescribers would try to help them, to what it is today..... a virtual battle field where the two above named pseudo classical homeopaths shadow each and every post that I and the other make in the hope of ensuring that we will finally give up and retire in disgust from the ABC.

It is fortunate that Simon has finally decided to enter the fray today in Murthy's Congrats ABC where he takes credit for increase the posts from 50 to 90 which he really succeeded in doing yesterday with his inane posts which I unfortunately was compelled to respond to as I felt that I just could not leave a madman who attacked me free of a response in return.

I do hope that Simon will open his eyes and respond to my post that I have just made which I shall copy below for your information>'


I will, once AGAIN say nothing more to anyone who does not mention my name or address me further.

Dear Simon,
Inspite of many instigations I have not used any bad words against Jacob. I have asked him direct questions...which many members of this Forum would like to get answers to.

Best regards,
Pankaj Varma

QUOTE:'Dear Simon,
Inspite of many instigations I have not used any bad words against Jacob. I have asked him direct questions...which many members of this Forum would like to get answers to.'


Ahem...

'Jacob,
Shut down your own site and come here completely...then we will know that your intentions are honest. Till then you are just fooling around here ...in the hope that some people from here will move to your website.'

'Jacob...who are you trying to fool....

If you had enough business in your practice and enough were visiting your site...you would not have come here.'

'Murthy ...good advice you have given to Jacob !!'

'If you have nothing to show in terms of registration details with British Homeopathic Association...you are a FAKE !!'

'Murthy...your protests only indicate that you are a partner in his faking !!'


Hmm, what's that smell...? Is it cow, pig? Nooo, I know what it is, It's BULLSH*T!

And if 'many members' would like to know such things, let them come forward, you speak for no one. Nice job of 'sucking up to teacher' too btw, I feel so proud of you :)

I repeat, I will not respond if I am not addressed, or my name is not mentioned by these 'people'.

Dear Rajiv,

Thank you for reminding me about Clarke's 'The Prescriber' which I immediately recollected having studied many years ago and which was sitting right there on my bookshelf part of which I have devoted to Homeopathy in my library comprising over 5000 books on many subjects under the sun, ranging from Motor engineering to Rose growing to Homeopathy and many other subjects. I had quite frankly forgotten about this book which I would otherwise have quoted earlier in my defense if only I had remebered it all these months when I was under constant attack for my Joepathy.

You are quite correct in stating that the remedies listed in it have all been recorded by Clarke based on his own experience with that of other homeopaths in the same manner that I prescribe for an ailment. It seems such a pity that this science of Homeopathy has been degraded to the present level by those who profess to be the classical sect which I believe that they have deliberately done, as they seem to resent the fact that we who are not qualified seem to be cutting the grass from under the feet of the classical sect, which renders them sensitive to the fact that they are losing their revenue when they discover that their patients whom they have been treating for years, post on the ABC and immediately experience an almost immediate cure within a few days or in some instances in hours.

I refer to the case of Shiny's son Mihir who was a child Asthmatic who was on a gamut of drugs and inhalers and was for the first time in many years soundly asleep within a few hours of his first dose of Nat Sulph 6c in the wet dose,. I have just consulted Clarke where he refers to Nat Sulph 3 and states ' In Hydrogenoid subjects; with morning diarrhoea Nat Sulph 3 gr.IV 4hr. I believe that he had not experienced the blessed relief that I have been able to bring to chronic sufferers like Mihir with Nat Sulph 6c in the wet dose. Since I first started to treat him he has shown positive signs of alleviation of his condition which Shiny the mother does not report any more as I presume that he is perhaps cured.

As you are aware, all I have done is to share my own experiences with the use of remedies as Clarke has done which I encourage others too to emulate by sharing the remedy that they used for a patient which evoked a response and even perhaps cured another ailment that the patient suffered from, like my discovery that Arnica helped to stabilize Diabetes and Nat Phos 6x to help in Obesity. If you read the many posts that have been made in the last few days, you will observe that the 2 classical homeopathic trolls, and of course the self confessed homeopathic witch, have all banded together against me to deride my efforts in my use of the direct 'this for that' approach as they were unaware that Clarke himself who was a non qualified homeopath, experimented with remedies in varying potencies and when he discovered a remedy at a certain potency had some positive curative aspect for a particular disease or ailment he would record it , strangely enough as I do myself. It is in the sharing of his own experience that he is still remembered today as the other greats and it is unfortunate that the present clique of so called 'classical homeopaths' forget that this precious science was not intended to be used in the manner that they are doing today, prime examples of which are evident in the person of both Murthy and Jacob who are quick to shadow my every post and delight in only criticizing them on the basis that I have not used their high faluting classical method of diagnosis and identification of the remedy that I prescribe. It is their sheer hypocritical critique of my posts that really gets me down when all I seek to do is to help the patient and this invariably results in either or often both of these trolls shadowing my every post only to criticize them on the grounds of their being non classical. They have often warned the patient that the use of the remedies I prescribe is even dangerous for their ailment as they fondly imagine that they could even lead to cancer or other horrible after effects. It is ironic to note that these same patients often have refuted these critical posts by confirming that my remedies have worked wonderfully well and some have openly ordered the classical duo to stop pestering them and me.

As you are aware the large majority of practicing homeopaths in the Indian subcontinent who are qualified use the same direct system of treatment that I use and it is indeed unfortunate that they do not have the courage to openly confirm that they do so, perhaps fearing that they will lose their license to practice if they do. There is absolutely no question that those who see over 20 patients daily do not and cannot use the classical system complete with its painful case taking procedure which many patients who have weathered it have often referred to as being so very unnecessary when the patient consulted the homeopath for an ailment like GERD for which he was given a constitutional remedy which made a bad situation even worse. This same patient reported that he had almost immediate relief within a few minutes of his using Nat Phos 6x which I had prescribed which I gave him from my stock free of charge as is my policy in treating all patients who consult me.

I do hope that I will live to see the day that the practice of Homeopathic is rationalized on the line of my Joepathy or as you coined another phrase, Clarkepathy. All I am interested is to ensure that the wool is finally removed from the eyes of the patient who consults a homeopath who I hope will use the same direct system that I advocate which I feel will enable this science to forge ahead into the 21 st Century from where it has been stagnating for the last 50 years due to the machinations of that select group of classical homeopaths who prefer to keep it under wraps in order to ensure that these same classical homeopaths will be able to continue to milk the patient with their classical case taking procedure and the subsequent constitutional remedy which will only compel the patient to seek another consultation in a few days.

And consultations do not usually come cheap !

Dear Joe,

You are a most wonderful man and i admire your jest for life and spirit of service.I have never ever said or written anything in disrespect towards you out of this respect.

But i would just like to say one thing.The approach that you have works the best in case of acute illnesses.A book like 'The Prescriber' is really handy on such occasions.But when it comes to treating really chronic cases, then classical homeopathy, specially in the hands of an excellent homeopath, is extremely useful to cure the disease along with the miasms generating the various chronic symptoms.That is the only thing that i wish you to realize.

Nat Sulph is indeed an excellent asthma remedy and would more often than not cure when the asthma is worse at the sea shore or in humidity.Arnica is wonderful and so is Nat phos. But we should know when to use them and when not to use them.When they will cure and when they will palliate.

For example, in your case Arnica keeps you energetic at this advanced age.So definitely you are justified in using it because there is no cure for old age.We can only palliate the 'old age'.Based on your experience i have helped to ease some troubles of some of my old relatives with Arnica.So, it is never bad to share experiences.But rigidity is not good.Neither from your side nor from my side or from anyone else's side.

With warm regards,

Rajiv