The ABC Homeopathy Forum
key note prescribing
I read this statement in one of the threads ,by one of the prescribers.'The important indication of Kali Carb is:
Swelling of the area between the eye-lids and eye-brows'
What do you infer from this?
Does it mean kali carb will not work for anybody who doesn't have this peculiarity?
Does all conditions to which Kali carb can be prescribed should have this bloating of the upper eyelid?
Suppose if a person has the typical Kali carb symptom..
Backache, sweat, weakness very great; drops down in chair.
but, doesn't have the bloating of eyelids, will it not work for him?
I would like to have answers to these questions from that prescriber, or from any body else interested in knowing more about key note presribing.
Murthy
♥ gavinimurthy on 2006-12-14
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Dear Murthy.... when other symptoms of Kali Carb are indicated...look at the eyes ...if you see the swelling (as mentioned in my other post)....you got the confirmation that the choice is correct.
If not...probe further.
Pankaj Varma
If not...probe further.
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
....it is like a 'Hallmark stamp' on genuine gold ornaments.
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Dear friends
This symptom is normally found only in patients suffering from anemia. If a person has all the charecteristic symptoms that indicate anemia, and has this 'peculiar' feature you can be sure of Kali carb.
However, it is futile to look for this symptom in a backache case. Unless the patient is anemic also, this symptom need not be present.
Please remember
The absence of a keynote symptom doesn't contra indicate the medicine.
However, its presence is a strong indication, and the remedy containing it is to be matched to the patient's symptoms to see if it fits.
Some times, the same keynote symptom is found in more than one remedy. Burning in soles doesn't automatically indicate Sulphur. It may be Pulsatilla also, or any of the dozen or so remedies, which have this symptom prominently.
Some particular keynote symtoms are associated with some particular diseases.
kali carb's bloating between the upper eyelid and brow is indicated in anemic cases.
Similarly the 'alae nasae' of Lycopodium is only found in respiratory affections. It is futile to look for it, in other complaints.
definitely, one should know about keynote symptoms. But, how to apply that knowledge, and where to apply is another matter altogether.
Murthy
This symptom is normally found only in patients suffering from anemia. If a person has all the charecteristic symptoms that indicate anemia, and has this 'peculiar' feature you can be sure of Kali carb.
However, it is futile to look for this symptom in a backache case. Unless the patient is anemic also, this symptom need not be present.
Please remember
The absence of a keynote symptom doesn't contra indicate the medicine.
However, its presence is a strong indication, and the remedy containing it is to be matched to the patient's symptoms to see if it fits.
Some times, the same keynote symptom is found in more than one remedy. Burning in soles doesn't automatically indicate Sulphur. It may be Pulsatilla also, or any of the dozen or so remedies, which have this symptom prominently.
Some particular keynote symtoms are associated with some particular diseases.
kali carb's bloating between the upper eyelid and brow is indicated in anemic cases.
Similarly the 'alae nasae' of Lycopodium is only found in respiratory affections. It is futile to look for it, in other complaints.
definitely, one should know about keynote symptoms. But, how to apply that knowledge, and where to apply is another matter altogether.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Expecting the swelling between the upper eyelid and eyebrow, in non anemic Kali carb cases, is not proper understanding of the concept of key note symptoms.
Murthy
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Cannot enter into debate as there is limited time available to attend to people here.
As usual you are twisting matters....
Important to go back to the original thread from where the comment came ....to fully understand the entire context.
You should have quoted the url of that thread before starting the discussion.
Pankaj Varma
As usual you are twisting matters....
Important to go back to the original thread from where the comment came ....to fully understand the entire context.
You should have quoted the url of that thread before starting the discussion.
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
remedies have more than ONE keynote, and of course they are viewed in relation to the patients condition/other symptoms. as pankaj says - extra questions/Obs if needed.
generally if 3 keynotes of a remedy are present it is well indicated......unless, OF COURSE, another remedy's keynotes are there - then comparison is necessary.
Keynote of Kali Carb in particular is used when patient gives very few symptoms to prescriber.
generally if 3 keynotes of a remedy are present it is well indicated......unless, OF COURSE, another remedy's keynotes are there - then comparison is necessary.
Keynote of Kali Carb in particular is used when patient gives very few symptoms to prescriber.
erika last decade
I am not 'twisting matters'. I am exposing the fallacy of the wrong concept regarding key note symptoms.
That patient is not definitely anemic, and hence will not have this symptom.
Why ask for it, when we know that it will not be there?
It is because some people don't know that it will not be there, in the present case.
This is the thread..
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/97203/
and this the post I am talking about.
*********
Re: Is this Lycopodium? From PANKAJ VARMA on 2006-12-14
The important indication of Kali Carb is:
Swelling of the area between the eye-lids and eye-brows....check and come back.
Pankaj Varma
*********
Murthy
That patient is not definitely anemic, and hence will not have this symptom.
Why ask for it, when we know that it will not be there?
It is because some people don't know that it will not be there, in the present case.
This is the thread..
http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/97203/
and this the post I am talking about.
*********
Re: Is this Lycopodium? From PANKAJ VARMA on 2006-12-14
The important indication of Kali Carb is:
Swelling of the area between the eye-lids and eye-brows....check and come back.
Pankaj Varma
*********
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Educating others about the concepts is my primary goal, as stated many times.
The purpose is not to belittle anybody, but, use the opportunities provided to serve as examples.
Murthy
The purpose is not to belittle anybody, but, use the opportunities provided to serve as examples.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
I missed reading the above deleted post.
Any way, if visitors and presribers understand when to use key notes, and when not to, the purpose is served.
Always try to understand the group of symptoms, where the key note symptom is likely to be present.
Don't look for the 'fear of death' in aconite, when the poor fellow is suffering from cough due to sudden exposure to cold.
But, look for it in patients having symptoms similar to heart attack. It won't cure him, but gives you enough time to rush him to the hospital.
Murthy
Any way, if visitors and presribers understand when to use key notes, and when not to, the purpose is served.
Always try to understand the group of symptoms, where the key note symptom is likely to be present.
Don't look for the 'fear of death' in aconite, when the poor fellow is suffering from cough due to sudden exposure to cold.
But, look for it in patients having symptoms similar to heart attack. It won't cure him, but gives you enough time to rush him to the hospital.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Dear Simon,
I don't remember what I posted. Pl. e-mail to me the deleted post...so that I can analyse what was inflammatory in it...for future reference.
Thanks,
Pankaj Varma
I don't remember what I posted. Pl. e-mail to me the deleted post...so that I can analyse what was inflammatory in it...for future reference.
Thanks,
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
And don't look for the 'linea nasalia' for all cases that need Aethusa. It comes at a very late stage, after continuous vomitings for a few days at a stretch.
You can abort the whole disease, before you reach that stage, by giving a few doses of Aethusa early in the case.
Murthy
You can abort the whole disease, before you reach that stage, by giving a few doses of Aethusa early in the case.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
oh ! I remember now. I had written about other homeopathic websites asking me to contribute ....
Yes I remember now.
Yes I remember now.
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
No. That was on 'my credentials' thread. And it is still there intact.
Any way, don't bother about it. Must have been something that deserves removal.
I am glad it is being done, before others have a chance to react, to prevent unpleasantness.
Murthy
Any way, don't bother about it. Must have been something that deserves removal.
I am glad it is being done, before others have a chance to react, to prevent unpleasantness.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
We have gone far away from our original topic.
Let us come back.
Now read this.
**********
Case number 401
Donald is a twelve-year-old boy. His main complaint is chronic headaches. They begin in his right occiput and extend to the right temple. They eventually settle over the right eye. The headaches tend to occur after a baseball game, where he pitches, or after hard work at school; both situations are due to his competitive nature.
During the headache he becomes sensitive to light, noise and conversation and wants to be alone. He becomes irritable and snaps at his mother if she tries to comfort him in any way. At times he vomits with the headache. Hot showers or hot applications to the head ameliorate the pain.
He is sensitive to cold, and shivers easily, even with the headaches. He also has growing pains, mostly around his right shin and knee, though they could be due to an injury he endured playing soccer. The leg pain feels worse at night, when he can also develop cramps in the leg. It feels better if he massages the area or takes a bath. He likes warm food.
There are two famous keynotes in this case - headache, extending from the occiput to the right eye and vomiting with the headache, both keynotes of Sanguinaria, which had been given by another homeopath, but which did not help.
Likewise there are keynotes of Rhus toxicodendron, which also did not help. There are keynotes of many other remedies listed in this short description. Think how many keynotes there are in a full case, where we have 10 pages of notes.
However, looking at the general trends in the patient first, we can list the following points:
A. Right-sided complaints, especially headaches
B. Competitive nature
C. Extreme sensitivity to stimuli
D. Irritability
E. Warmth ameliorates.
Once we have identified Donald's keynotes, we can go to the materia medica and see that Nux vomica represents a good match by having the same keynotes. This process helps us discard keynotes of other remedies because, even though they are keynotes of those remedies, they are not part of a general trend of the patient in question and therefore not keynotes of the patient.
There is a great deal more to say about this topic. By taking the large subject of keynotes and separating it into its parts, we can put it back together and develop a deeper understanding. In most cases, it is not the lack of knowledge of a remedy but rather the lack of understanding of how to apply the remedy that creates the problem.
http://www.wholehealthnow.com/homeopathy_pro/keynotes.html
*********
Well said. Is it not?
Murthy
Let us come back.
Now read this.
**********
Case number 401
Donald is a twelve-year-old boy. His main complaint is chronic headaches. They begin in his right occiput and extend to the right temple. They eventually settle over the right eye. The headaches tend to occur after a baseball game, where he pitches, or after hard work at school; both situations are due to his competitive nature.
During the headache he becomes sensitive to light, noise and conversation and wants to be alone. He becomes irritable and snaps at his mother if she tries to comfort him in any way. At times he vomits with the headache. Hot showers or hot applications to the head ameliorate the pain.
He is sensitive to cold, and shivers easily, even with the headaches. He also has growing pains, mostly around his right shin and knee, though they could be due to an injury he endured playing soccer. The leg pain feels worse at night, when he can also develop cramps in the leg. It feels better if he massages the area or takes a bath. He likes warm food.
There are two famous keynotes in this case - headache, extending from the occiput to the right eye and vomiting with the headache, both keynotes of Sanguinaria, which had been given by another homeopath, but which did not help.
Likewise there are keynotes of Rhus toxicodendron, which also did not help. There are keynotes of many other remedies listed in this short description. Think how many keynotes there are in a full case, where we have 10 pages of notes.
However, looking at the general trends in the patient first, we can list the following points:
A. Right-sided complaints, especially headaches
B. Competitive nature
C. Extreme sensitivity to stimuli
D. Irritability
E. Warmth ameliorates.
Once we have identified Donald's keynotes, we can go to the materia medica and see that Nux vomica represents a good match by having the same keynotes. This process helps us discard keynotes of other remedies because, even though they are keynotes of those remedies, they are not part of a general trend of the patient in question and therefore not keynotes of the patient.
There is a great deal more to say about this topic. By taking the large subject of keynotes and separating it into its parts, we can put it back together and develop a deeper understanding. In most cases, it is not the lack of knowledge of a remedy but rather the lack of understanding of how to apply the remedy that creates the problem.
http://www.wholehealthnow.com/homeopathy_pro/keynotes.html
*********
Well said. Is it not?
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
By the way, the above case is by Paul Herscu if i am not mistaken.Isn't it Mr. Murthy.
The more the keynotes come close to describing the patient, belong to a remedy which has a strong action against the miasm which is causing the presenting ailments, and then stranger and rarer the keynote, greater its value.
Rajiv
The more the keynotes come close to describing the patient, belong to a remedy which has a strong action against the miasm which is causing the presenting ailments, and then stranger and rarer the keynote, greater its value.
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
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