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Homeopathy is Fake? Page 4 of 4
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ZepOz last decade
Dear Robot and Zepoz,
Thanx for a brief explanation of double blind studies.
Thanx for zepoz for explaining those doubts. I am not convinced because when the term random is involved, iam tempted to think the probability of those cases. and the cumulative probability of each successive generations. But we will discuss some other time because iam hard pressed for time.
I dont know the science of homeopathy and i dont think any mortals are able to do it.
But the proof of the pudding is in eating it. I have experienced its curative powers .
We feel the warmth of sunshine. One need not study the intricacies of solar physics or nuclear fusion to bask in the warmth of sunlight on a sunny day.(let me tell you that not even the main processes inside the earth. ie., geodynamo is not fully understood.)
and to Robot,
I agree that lot research is going on in conventional medicine(i prefer to call it Allopathic) and it saves life of many people in emergencies.
Even i,if met with an accident and suffer from a skull injury, i will prefer to go to a Allopathic ICU.
But there is another side of the story. Even though the Allopathic medicine has progressed well (in certain aspects )compared to other systems of medicines, I used to wonder why Hypertension does not have a CURE? (Well they have a big arsenal of drugs to supress BP.) but where is the cure?
Its the same case with Diabetics. Once diabetic, he remains a diabetic to his end.
I work in the field of fluid dynamics. Let me explain my understanding of Blood pressure.
Hypertension can arise out of many many reasons. Among them Arteriosclerosis is one.
That means that arteries get thickened due to some reasons(known or unknown) and the diameter of the blood vessels gets narrowed. So the heart has to do extra job to make sure that sufficient amount of blood reaches the vital organs. This thickening of blood vessels can happen in the kidneys also. And kidney being one of the most important organ, heart starts pumping with extra pressure. This case will also be diagonised as Hypertension. The patient is given medicines which reduces the pumping pressure of the heart.( Like beta blockers , calcium blockers.) But on the long run the kidney will be dying a slow death due to lack of sufficient blood supply.
Anybody can check what i say. A person will be put on beta blockers if he is diagonised with hypertension, and if it does not works out he will be put on the next stage of medicines like calcium blockers and all those stuff. Or a combination of some of them . Who cares to find the root problem?
In my friends circle , there are three persons with kidney failures.One guy is a professor and could afford to do kidney transplantation.( well he became poorer by 10lakhs). The other guy is already poor and after doing dialysis for some time he finds difficulty even for a hand to mouth existence.
And i really wish that allopathic medicines came to help these people by curing them.
Let me tell my own case. I had this problem of Gum infection, swellings,bad breath, receeding teeth and all sorts of problem. And had been suffering this problem for around 15 years. Every time , i get a gum swelling, the doctor puts me on a course of antibiotic.
I lost four tooths one by one. As a last resort , i took to gum surgery. He assured all the problems will be cured by that surgery. It cost me 7,500 Rs in 1995. After few months all the old problems started coming back.
I took few doses of one homeo medicine and iam totally free from all those problems.
So its not a case of 'Argumentum ad populum' rather a knowledge i learned in the hard way.
so i would like to repeat that i was 'Cured'.
and Zepoz, for heavens sake don't talk in latin. Its greek to me. :)
regards
Anil
Thanx for a brief explanation of double blind studies.
Thanx for zepoz for explaining those doubts. I am not convinced because when the term random is involved, iam tempted to think the probability of those cases. and the cumulative probability of each successive generations. But we will discuss some other time because iam hard pressed for time.
I dont know the science of homeopathy and i dont think any mortals are able to do it.
But the proof of the pudding is in eating it. I have experienced its curative powers .
We feel the warmth of sunshine. One need not study the intricacies of solar physics or nuclear fusion to bask in the warmth of sunlight on a sunny day.(let me tell you that not even the main processes inside the earth. ie., geodynamo is not fully understood.)
and to Robot,
I agree that lot research is going on in conventional medicine(i prefer to call it Allopathic) and it saves life of many people in emergencies.
Even i,if met with an accident and suffer from a skull injury, i will prefer to go to a Allopathic ICU.
But there is another side of the story. Even though the Allopathic medicine has progressed well (in certain aspects )compared to other systems of medicines, I used to wonder why Hypertension does not have a CURE? (Well they have a big arsenal of drugs to supress BP.) but where is the cure?
Its the same case with Diabetics. Once diabetic, he remains a diabetic to his end.
I work in the field of fluid dynamics. Let me explain my understanding of Blood pressure.
Hypertension can arise out of many many reasons. Among them Arteriosclerosis is one.
That means that arteries get thickened due to some reasons(known or unknown) and the diameter of the blood vessels gets narrowed. So the heart has to do extra job to make sure that sufficient amount of blood reaches the vital organs. This thickening of blood vessels can happen in the kidneys also. And kidney being one of the most important organ, heart starts pumping with extra pressure. This case will also be diagonised as Hypertension. The patient is given medicines which reduces the pumping pressure of the heart.( Like beta blockers , calcium blockers.) But on the long run the kidney will be dying a slow death due to lack of sufficient blood supply.
Anybody can check what i say. A person will be put on beta blockers if he is diagonised with hypertension, and if it does not works out he will be put on the next stage of medicines like calcium blockers and all those stuff. Or a combination of some of them . Who cares to find the root problem?
In my friends circle , there are three persons with kidney failures.One guy is a professor and could afford to do kidney transplantation.( well he became poorer by 10lakhs). The other guy is already poor and after doing dialysis for some time he finds difficulty even for a hand to mouth existence.
And i really wish that allopathic medicines came to help these people by curing them.
Let me tell my own case. I had this problem of Gum infection, swellings,bad breath, receeding teeth and all sorts of problem. And had been suffering this problem for around 15 years. Every time , i get a gum swelling, the doctor puts me on a course of antibiotic.
I lost four tooths one by one. As a last resort , i took to gum surgery. He assured all the problems will be cured by that surgery. It cost me 7,500 Rs in 1995. After few months all the old problems started coming back.
I took few doses of one homeo medicine and iam totally free from all those problems.
So its not a case of 'Argumentum ad populum' rather a knowledge i learned in the hard way.
so i would like to repeat that i was 'Cured'.
and Zepoz, for heavens sake don't talk in latin. Its greek to me. :)
regards
Anil
Daniel Iype last decade
Questions. Was it the homeopathy that cured you or would you have got better anyway? Is there any evidence one way or the other?
Any reason why you could not get infected again?
Any reason why you could not get infected again?
robot last decade
I happened to read the definition of learning,
'...the alternation of behaviour as a result of individual experience. When an organism can perceive and change its behaviour, it is said to learn....'
It is in the Encyclopedia Brittanica on animal learning.
And after all human is a rational animal.
'...the alternation of behaviour as a result of individual experience. When an organism can perceive and change its behaviour, it is said to learn....'
It is in the Encyclopedia Brittanica on animal learning.
And after all human is a rational animal.
Daniel Iype last decade
Anil,
There is nothing deep or profound about properly designed scientific studies. Really! It requires no great brain-power at all, just plain common sense really.
OK, I'll translate for you: 'Post hoc ergo propter hoc' means literally 'before this, therefore because of this'. It's what we call a 'logical fallacy' - mistakenly connecting a specific action with a specific result, when they are not really connected at all.
The best way to show you this is by example. If you read back a bit in this thread (top of last page?) you will see my 'waving makes planes land' story. That is a (made up and silly) example of a 'post hoc' logical fallacy. The action does not actually correspond to the result.
Now you may think that's a silly example, and not likely to happen in real life. But it does all the time, especially in science (no-one is safe from it!), and we scientists have to be on guard against it all the time while doing research.
But the big issue is: How do you guard agains that happening when you test stuff? How do you show that it really WAS your wonderful new medicine that made the cure, and not (as Robot warns us) that it got better all by itself regardless.
There is nothing deep or profound about properly designed scientific studies. Really! It requires no great brain-power at all, just plain common sense really.
OK, I'll translate for you: 'Post hoc ergo propter hoc' means literally 'before this, therefore because of this'. It's what we call a 'logical fallacy' - mistakenly connecting a specific action with a specific result, when they are not really connected at all.
The best way to show you this is by example. If you read back a bit in this thread (top of last page?) you will see my 'waving makes planes land' story. That is a (made up and silly) example of a 'post hoc' logical fallacy. The action does not actually correspond to the result.
Now you may think that's a silly example, and not likely to happen in real life. But it does all the time, especially in science (no-one is safe from it!), and we scientists have to be on guard against it all the time while doing research.
But the big issue is: How do you guard agains that happening when you test stuff? How do you show that it really WAS your wonderful new medicine that made the cure, and not (as Robot warns us) that it got better all by itself regardless.
ZepOz last decade
Dear Zepoz,
Testing something in a lab is different when it comes to my own personal well being.
as written in my earlier post i have quaoted that
'...the alternation of behaviour as a result of individual experience. When an organism can perceive and change its behaviour, it is said to learn....'
my behavoiur is altered from the 15 years of allopathic medicines and then from the cure from homeopathic medicine.
I talk everything from my personal view point.
Now the next time when iam afflicted with some disease ( not any medical emergencies.) i will try for a homeopathic cure. ( Because my behaviour is altered from the past experience.)
I cannot keep my finger crossed and wait for the chances that the disease cures on it own.(this option is a logical extension of yours and robot's post).
(but don't think that i will go to a homeopathic doctor when my one year daughter is in dehydrated state with vomiting and dyssentry. I will certainly give oral solutions and some Allopathic medicines to come out of the critical situation. )
Anil
Testing something in a lab is different when it comes to my own personal well being.
as written in my earlier post i have quaoted that
'...the alternation of behaviour as a result of individual experience. When an organism can perceive and change its behaviour, it is said to learn....'
my behavoiur is altered from the 15 years of allopathic medicines and then from the cure from homeopathic medicine.
I talk everything from my personal view point.
Now the next time when iam afflicted with some disease ( not any medical emergencies.) i will try for a homeopathic cure. ( Because my behaviour is altered from the past experience.)
I cannot keep my finger crossed and wait for the chances that the disease cures on it own.(this option is a logical extension of yours and robot's post).
(but don't think that i will go to a homeopathic doctor when my one year daughter is in dehydrated state with vomiting and dyssentry. I will certainly give oral solutions and some Allopathic medicines to come out of the critical situation. )
Anil
Daniel Iype last decade
Dear Anil,
I will use simple English to convey what i have always felt before engaging in this exchange with our new sceptic friends on this forum.You would not be able to convince these guys because they are already convinced of what they think to be true.Your teeth and gums healed on their own because they had lasted for 15 minutes and not 15 years as you were dreaming!!You did not use allopathy for 15 years.You are deluded.You never underwent a surgery to set right the problem.You are lying because our scientific surgeons can never be wrong.You didn't take homeopathic medicines and even if you did they had nothing to do with the cure you experienced.You were cured because the plane landed on its own.Don't dare to wave your left hand again as you might lose both your hands.
I hope you listen to my sincere advice.
Jokingly yours,
Rajiv
I will use simple English to convey what i have always felt before engaging in this exchange with our new sceptic friends on this forum.You would not be able to convince these guys because they are already convinced of what they think to be true.Your teeth and gums healed on their own because they had lasted for 15 minutes and not 15 years as you were dreaming!!You did not use allopathy for 15 years.You are deluded.You never underwent a surgery to set right the problem.You are lying because our scientific surgeons can never be wrong.You didn't take homeopathic medicines and even if you did they had nothing to do with the cure you experienced.You were cured because the plane landed on its own.Don't dare to wave your left hand again as you might lose both your hands.
I hope you listen to my sincere advice.
Jokingly yours,
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
Hi
Rubrics for repertorization:
1. Criticism
2. Owner of the true
3. super ego
4. many ideas on mind
5. try to demostrate philosophic-scientist knowledge
6. fixed ideas
I think is a trimiasmatic case
could sulphur 1M help to open the case
maybe some one can help me making the mental profile
Sergio
Rubrics for repertorization:
1. Criticism
2. Owner of the true
3. super ego
4. many ideas on mind
5. try to demostrate philosophic-scientist knowledge
6. fixed ideas
I think is a trimiasmatic case
could sulphur 1M help to open the case
maybe some one can help me making the mental profile
Sergio
sergiorvil last decade
thanx rajiv for your advice.
by the way i have bought Organon of medicine (student's edition 33 Rs) , Chronic diseases ( my father already had one) and George Vithoulka's ( science of homeopathy). I hope i will be able to read all those in a couple of months.
regards,
Anil
by the way i have bought Organon of medicine (student's edition 33 Rs) , Chronic diseases ( my father already had one) and George Vithoulka's ( science of homeopathy). I hope i will be able to read all those in a couple of months.
regards,
Anil
Daniel Iype last decade
Anil,
Once again, you seem to be mindlessly parroting stuff from other people that makes you sound like you aren't doing any thinking of your own. Where did I mention anything about laboratories?
You do have me a bit confused. When is the onset of any disease NOT a medical emergency?
I would also be very interested to know the details of your personal experience of your homeopathic cure that convinced you of its efficacy. I much prefer to get first-hand facts, rather than to make up mistruths about other people and make childish and tired jokes about them.
Once again, you seem to be mindlessly parroting stuff from other people that makes you sound like you aren't doing any thinking of your own. Where did I mention anything about laboratories?
You do have me a bit confused. When is the onset of any disease NOT a medical emergency?
I would also be very interested to know the details of your personal experience of your homeopathic cure that convinced you of its efficacy. I much prefer to get first-hand facts, rather than to make up mistruths about other people and make childish and tired jokes about them.
ZepOz last decade
Dear Anil,
I wish you all the best for your studies.It will be surely more than repaid in terms of health and happiness for your near and dear ones.Don't be distracted by all this scepticism since you have experienced first hand what homeopathy is capable of doing.A first hand experience is worth more than all the 'seemingly impressive bookish learning' from a hundred books.
Rajiv
I wish you all the best for your studies.It will be surely more than repaid in terms of health and happiness for your near and dear ones.Don't be distracted by all this scepticism since you have experienced first hand what homeopathy is capable of doing.A first hand experience is worth more than all the 'seemingly impressive bookish learning' from a hundred books.
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
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