Unsuccessful remedies - help! _{Page 5 of 7}

Dear lucky, this is was not what I was trying to convey by my post above, I have not taken anything personally, and am quite happy to help with your sons treatment. My point is, that you can only folow the suggestions of one Homoeopath at a time, as if you are applying remedies suggested by more than one source, the case will simply become confused and you will never achieve anything, and as you seemed to be following another route, I was simply stepping out of the picture. If however, you feel nothing is working, then I am happy to take up the case, but as stated, I could only do this in a complete manner, and with you following only my advice.

Best wishes.

Dear Jessica.

You're welcome :)

Okay, first up, you should cease the teething tablets, and in my opinion, they should not be given again. They are a combination of four different remedies, and this is NOT how Homoeopathy should be prescribed. One of the remedies included in this combination is even antidotal to one of the others, so I have no idea how this remedy can be expected to work, even if remedies were precribed in this way (i.e as combinations). If he absolutely needs something to help with teething, select ONE remedy, and if this does not help after a few doses, try another, but only one at a time. The first remedy I would try is Chamomilla (if symptoms agree), as this is the remedy most frequently indicated in teething children.

The probiotics, as you state, will not intefere with any remedies.

Regarding the MMR remedy, personally I would not give this to treat problems from vaccination, as it is afterall another combination. Potencies of individual vaccinations however can indeed be curative where there has been a bad reaction, and if all indicated anti-vaccinosis remedies fail in an obvious case of this complaint.

You are absolutley right in your wish to keep your son remedy free for at least a week, as he has received much dosing, and this is not good. I would also not even give him something for his teething troubles during this period. Just let him be for a while.

I have, just now, read over the entire thread and, two points stand out:

1./'2006-09-17
I just thought I would let you know that so far today, the glands are the lowest they've been in 8 weeks!! They aren't gone, but veeeery close to gone! I'm sure they will swell more again before the next dose, but things are looking good! '
This is the point at which the medication should have been stopped. I am unsure as to what remedy and what potency was given prior to this amelioration, as the whole thread is rather jumbled and eratic, but as far as I can see, this was from Silicea 30c?

You also state that the glands became swollen again after a subsequent dose, and this is of course a very bad sign, and obviously aggravation, as you seemed to have understood yourself.

Homoeopathice remedies work by providing stimulation, but it is NOT the remedies which provide the cure, this is achieved by the patient themself, by their REACTION to the remedy. This is in direct contrast to allopathy, where it is the DRUG which provides the amelioration. Therefore, if one continually applies the remedy over and over, all we are really doing is continually applying stimulation to the patient, without giving him time to react, and in this situation, cure will never follow. It is like continually turning the key of a car ignition, without giving the engine time to start (I hope you are a driver or that analogy will make no sense whatsoever! Heh.)

2/.'2006-09-16
In addition to the above question, my son is beginning to reject the liquid doses, crying and fighting.'
Listen to your son! Children are very intuitive, and they instinctively know what they require. I have always found this a good indication when prescribing for children (especially when preverbal) that a remedy should be stopped for a while. While a remedy is having a beneficial effect they will often ask when they can take some more, or indicate their desire to do so.
(of course in your sons case the teething situation also needs to be taken into account, as he may just not want anything near his mouth, but I am sure you can work this out from observing his behaviour in other situations).

Regarding the MMR remedy, personally I would not give this to treat problems from vaccination, as it is afterall a combination remedy. Potencies of individual vaccinations however can indeed be curative, where there has been a bad reaction, and if all indicated anti-vaccinosis remedies fail in an obvious case of this complaint.

If you wish to follow my advice then, do as you intend, nothing for a week, then we will re-assess the situation again and go from there. If you do intend to pursue this, in the meantime please list here all remedies he has been given, the potencies, and reactions to each, including the very last remedy given (which I think was Thuja 200c?).

Best wishes, and I will continue to keep an eye on the thread over the next week or so ;)


-Jacob.

Hello again Jessica, and thankyou for clarifying all of the above. It can be quite difficult to make sense of things when everyone is posting different suggestions so eratically etc, I don't know how you all cope on here!

Anyway, to verify, there was no more improvement from Silicea 1M than there was from the 30c, and Thuja had a similar limited effect, is this correct?

I have also just read through all your other threads, and had no idea this began with a rash & fever etc (as this was posted before I joined the forum), which of course would follow the typical disease pattern of the viruses contained within the vaccine itself, and therefore WOULD actually suggest a reaction to one or more of the components of the MMR vaccine specifically.

Providing I have understood you correctly then (re: the reaaction to Silicea 1M, and Thuja), this will be your next course of action, and even though I do not usually advocate the use of combination remedies, due to the fact that all three viruses are given together in the vaccine, and that it is almost impossible to ascertain which of these has caused the reaction (which in fact is probably all three), I would recommend you go ahead and order the MMR combination.

I would order this remedy in a 200c 5ml liquid potency, and in a weeks time, give just ONE dose of 2 drops in a small beaker of water, and let him take a small sip (the beaker used should be disposed of after using it for this purpose). Alternatively you can give the remedy by olfaction (sniffing), but it can be quite difficult to get such a young child to inhale the remedy in this way, so the water application may be better. Either way, only give ONE dose.

Be aware that this treatment may first reduce the swelling of the glands, but the rash and fever may return (albeit in a slight manner)in the course of healing, due to the reversal of symptoms, and you should not be concerned by this, unless of course the temperature becomes very high, although this is highly unlikely. You should also bare in mind that the application of these nosodes is not a cure of vaccinosis, but merely an adjunct to it's treatment, and that other remedies MAY need to be given to complete the cure, but we will cross this bridge if and when we come to it.

I agree there is much conflict of opinion regarding dosing, but this is simply because some do not adhere to the basic principles of Homoeopathy. The rule is: One dose (or up to three on ONE day), wait for reaction, and if there is improvement ONLY repeat the remedy if this improvemnt ceases, and always in a slightly higher potency. If the same potency is given long term, and the remedy is acting curatively, rather than just in a palliative manner, the patient will mereley end up proving the remedy by developing symptoms of it's drug picture which were not part of the original complaint.

I hopes this helps, and I look forward to hearing of your sons response.

Best wishes.


-Jacob.

http://www.helios.co.uk/ This is where I order all my remedies from, they are perhaps one of the best pharmacies around, make all their remedies by hand, and stock almost everything.

And you're welcome :)


-Jacob.

Hmm, this IS odd, as you have to wonder how they got from a 30c to a 1M! Ainsworths, by the way, are another very good pharmacy, and will always do if you cannot find what you're looking for at Helios (in the future).

Very strange they don't have a 200 of this remedy though, as they are usually pretty good with their stock.

Oh well, I am sure Helios will have it. Keep us informed :)


-Jacob.

Hi Jessica,
Sometimes pharmacies list the highest potency they have available and this means they have all potencies in that scale below it. So if they list 200c, they also have 30c, 12c, etc.

Jacob,
Is it more likely the repeat dose of same potency was antidoting and not proving? I know few are aware of using same potency and dose as antidote.

Also, would MMR remedy really be considered a combination remedy since it is made from the 'one' vaccine which happens to contain the three diseases?

Jessica, I hope it helps your little guy!

Dear busy.

Hmm, I have never heard of or experienced the same unchanged dose of a remedy being antidotal to itself, and this would actually go against practically everything we know. For a sucessive dose of a remedy to antidote a previous one it would need to be at a higher degree of dynamization (or in rare cases, a lower one). Applying the same potency of a remedy over and over can only result in proving, as the patient can only react to the level of conceptual essence present in the remedy, and as this is unchanged there is simply nothing more for them to react to, and therefore they will then go on to develop symptoms of the remedy which were not part of their original complaint.

I am open to any theories on this, but I have personally taken and/or proved over 300 remedies, in all scales, and in a variety of potencies, and never once experienced this phenomenon.

Sometimes what will happen is the patient may react to the same potency given before with detrimental effect, due to a slight change in circumstances, but this isn't very common, maybe this is what you have observed?

Best wishes :)


-Jacob.

Oops, I forgot the last part of your post, heh.

Quote: 'Also, would MMR remedy really be considered a combination remedy since it is made from the 'one' vaccine which happens to contain the three diseases?'
This is, I guess, debatable. In my opinion though, for a group of ingredients to be considered a single remedy, they would have to be combined at a very elemental or even genetic level. Take chocolate for example, this cannot really be considered as a single remedy, as is commonly thought, as it is composed of sugar, milk, cocoa etc etc, and has only been mildly heated to COMBINE these ingredients, one may as well potentize apple pie and consider it single! This is of course in direct contrast to substances such as Hepar Sulph, which is a particualr combination of Calcium and Sulpur, but this is combined at an elemental level by heating at incredible temperatures, 'to a white heat', much in the same way such things are/were combined in nature, and therefore can no longer be considered as merely the sum of it's parts, but a new substance entirely. Moreover, if a mere COMBINATION of remedies/substances are given at the same time, their conceptual essences do not merge, but remain seperate 'fields', and the body simply cannot react properley to more than one at a time, which is why combination remedies are so detrimental. I must admit though, I do not know enough about the preparation of the MMR vaccine to say which of the above is more applicable in this situation.


-Jacob.

Hey Jessica, and hmm, I am a fool. I didn't think at the time, but I could have made the enquirey for you, I speak to them practically every day, heh.

Okay, good anyway that you have ordered the remedy.

Re your question: Personally I think they are rather splitting hairs in not calling the remedy a nosode, as it IS vaccine matter, and therefore a product of diesase, and this is the commonly used definition for a nosode. It could be that they refuse to do so because it is a combination, or because the pathogens are somewhat genetically altered, who knows, but for all intents and purposes, it is more or less a nosode.

I look forward to hearing of the results!

Best wishes.


-Jacob.

Good deal, and you're very welcome ;)


-Jacob.

Dear Jessica.

It usually takes 5-10 days for remedies to arrive in the US from here (UK). No idea why it varies so much, but I have a number of online patients in the US who order from Helios, and this seems to be the case.


-Jacob.

Dear Jessica, absolutely you should wait. As long as there is continued improvement, apply nothing.

It is probably the case that now all remedies have been stopped, he is actually able to react to them!, or any aggravations are now wearing off. As this improvement continues you will probably find that the symptoms change a little, giving even more indications for the use of the MMR. Slowly is always the best way ;)


-Jacob.

Hmm...okay, then try not to pay so much attention to them for the few days you are waiting for the remedy. That way you will notice more if there has been a substantial redution in size by the time it arrives, and whether or not to apply it immediately.


-Jacob.

Jessica,
I would still give at least one dose of the MMR to address his reaction even if his glands go down. Jacob may disagree but having lived this myself and with my daughter, if it is not addressed, it will continue to haunt forever coming out in different ways for years.

I have always contended the MMR is not a nosode either as it is made from a vaccine and not the individual diseases. However, I am in the minority.

Jacob, as for using the same potency and same dose as an antidote, there is a good article here: http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/17622/

Read the original article posted in the link. It also talks about Dr. Luc DeSchepper who also uses the centesimals in water rather like the LMs (as we touched on in a different post).

I was skeptical about the antidote of a repeat same potency/dose but I have seen it happen. And not only in aggravation cases. For example, my son recently had a fever and sore throat among other things. Gave him dose of Hep Sulph, 30c, 3 pellets dry. Symptoms improved but not quite all the way. In 3 hours, I thought one more dose will cure it up... instead it antidoted and he was back to square one.

Recently, child had high fever, burning pains, sinus infection after lingering cold, matching Hydrastis Can, gave 2 pellets, 30c dry. Proved the remedy immediately! Two pellets, 30c dry several hours later - antidoted and cured. STRANGE!

Sorry to go off topic, but I think it might still be applicable for the dosing given Jessica's son.