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Combination homeopathy vs. Classical homeopathy Page 3 of 4
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Article on
Homeopathy 3 : COMPLES REMEDIES
by John Morley, with help from Peter Bartlett
Complex Homoeopathy is not a school of Homoeopathy. It is rather an attempt to achieve the necessary clinical efficacy in today's polluted world where the patients are not simple cases that could be covered by a pathogenic study, but a complex net of toxic, functional and sensory symptoms, that often are not related to a disease, but to an interaction of pathological phenomena and iatrogenic syndromes which are very difficult to prescribe for.
One of the main problems experienced by classical homeopaths is the multi-medicated patient, a type so regularly seen in clinics these days. This is the patient who has a history of use of medical drugs or recreational drugs (or both), which complicates the constitutional picture and interferes with the function of the constitutional remedy. It is this type of patient who often responds better initially to the protocols set out in Complex Homoeopathy, and can then progress to the singular remedy once sufficient drainage or detoxification has taken place. This happens often, in that classical homeopathy is facilitated by the initial approach of Complex Homeopathy.
(##)
It is interesting to note that Hahnemann himself began combining remedies in some difficult cases that weren't covered by a single remedy.
(##)
Complex Homoeopathic therapy addresses the patient's particular stress factors rather than her or his constitutional type, and the remedies are combined in a way to cover the highest number of toxic and functional disturbances. The object is to reduce the toxic and other stress burdens and thus free the patient's energies that are tied up in coping with these stress factors. The substances used are pharmaco-dynamically investigated, the best way being to test bio-energetically with the Vega, Bicom or Mora systems, although prescribing without these testing methods can also be very effective. The combinations are low potencies, well below Avogadro's number, and they do not compromise classical high potencies or classical prescribing.
As such, complex homoeopathy is not an antagonist to classical homoeopathy, neither does it treat the same aspects, but acts specifically in diseases to which classical homoeopathy does not respond with efficacy. It is an advanced understanding of the homoeopathic pharmacology, based on insightful and very clever research and observation by Dr Reckeweg and many other German doctors over the last century, with good documentation and statistical verification. However, to understand the action of complex homoeopathy it is necessary to appreciate two main principles regarding remedy combination and the use of low potencies:
1) The first principal is that low potencies act specifically within a structure or function. The time of activity is short and therefore the stimulus has to be repeated frequently.
2) The second regards the fact that low potency remedies do not interact between themselves. Their action is synergistic and each enhances the therapeutic efficacy of the others without any inhibition of their own isolated activity.
For these reasons the use of complex remedies is not incompatible with classical homoeopathic prescribing. They are used in the first instance to relieve the patient of pain and distress from their suffering and to provide immediate help, and this facilitates the classical prescription.
From:
www (dot)wholisticresearch(dot)com/info/artshow.php3?artid=124
-------------------
## Please read this.
Best wishes
Pankaj Varma
Article on
Homeopathy 3 : COMPLES REMEDIES
by John Morley, with help from Peter Bartlett
Complex Homoeopathy is not a school of Homoeopathy. It is rather an attempt to achieve the necessary clinical efficacy in today's polluted world where the patients are not simple cases that could be covered by a pathogenic study, but a complex net of toxic, functional and sensory symptoms, that often are not related to a disease, but to an interaction of pathological phenomena and iatrogenic syndromes which are very difficult to prescribe for.
One of the main problems experienced by classical homeopaths is the multi-medicated patient, a type so regularly seen in clinics these days. This is the patient who has a history of use of medical drugs or recreational drugs (or both), which complicates the constitutional picture and interferes with the function of the constitutional remedy. It is this type of patient who often responds better initially to the protocols set out in Complex Homoeopathy, and can then progress to the singular remedy once sufficient drainage or detoxification has taken place. This happens often, in that classical homeopathy is facilitated by the initial approach of Complex Homeopathy.
(##)
It is interesting to note that Hahnemann himself began combining remedies in some difficult cases that weren't covered by a single remedy.
(##)
Complex Homoeopathic therapy addresses the patient's particular stress factors rather than her or his constitutional type, and the remedies are combined in a way to cover the highest number of toxic and functional disturbances. The object is to reduce the toxic and other stress burdens and thus free the patient's energies that are tied up in coping with these stress factors. The substances used are pharmaco-dynamically investigated, the best way being to test bio-energetically with the Vega, Bicom or Mora systems, although prescribing without these testing methods can also be very effective. The combinations are low potencies, well below Avogadro's number, and they do not compromise classical high potencies or classical prescribing.
As such, complex homoeopathy is not an antagonist to classical homoeopathy, neither does it treat the same aspects, but acts specifically in diseases to which classical homoeopathy does not respond with efficacy. It is an advanced understanding of the homoeopathic pharmacology, based on insightful and very clever research and observation by Dr Reckeweg and many other German doctors over the last century, with good documentation and statistical verification. However, to understand the action of complex homoeopathy it is necessary to appreciate two main principles regarding remedy combination and the use of low potencies:
1) The first principal is that low potencies act specifically within a structure or function. The time of activity is short and therefore the stimulus has to be repeated frequently.
2) The second regards the fact that low potency remedies do not interact between themselves. Their action is synergistic and each enhances the therapeutic efficacy of the others without any inhibition of their own isolated activity.
For these reasons the use of complex remedies is not incompatible with classical homoeopathic prescribing. They are used in the first instance to relieve the patient of pain and distress from their suffering and to provide immediate help, and this facilitates the classical prescription.
From:
www (dot)wholisticresearch(dot)com/info/artshow.php3?artid=124
-------------------
## Please read this.
Best wishes
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Some more information:
From: www(dot)avoncompmed.co.uk/homeop.html
COMPLEX HOMEOPATHY
The most widely used form of homeopathy in the UK is known as classical homoeopathy. This is based on the early work of Samuel Hahnemann, the founder of homoeopathy.
In classical homeopathy single remedies are used. These are decided by taking a complicated history of the condition, and taking into account the personality traits, likes and dislikes of the patient together with detailed history of previous medical conditions. A single preparation, at a single strength, is then prescribed.
Complex homeopathy has developed on the continent over the last thirty years, and this is now the main school of homoeopathy. Indeed, in Germany, complex homoeopathy is as widely used as orthodox medicine, with very large companies, rivalling the pharmaceutical companies, producing complex homoeopathic medicine.
These preparations contain mixtures of substances, and mixtures of strengths. Although this approach is tantamount to heresy to the classical practitioner,-## what is ignored is that Hahnemann himself was recommending mixed remedies in the later years of his life!##
This method therefore uses a wider approach, in that the body will respond to the medication it needs at that time. Furthermore, as treatment progresses, different constituents of the medicine may well become more relevant, and further response will occur accordingly.
There is an important concept behind this approach, which is directly contradictory to orthodox medicine. This is that the early stage of disease is a NATURAL AND APPROPRIATE DEFENCE MECHANISM. So increased excretion, for example of mucous in the common cold, is a method whereby the body is attempting to excrete the cause (ie the virus) of the illness. Diarrhoea in gastro-enteritis is an attempt by the body to clear toxic items taken with food, and there are other examples, such as sweating with flu, increased urine in bladder infections, and so on. In such a situation taking orthodox medicine, which suppresses this natural reaction, is only treating the symptoms, and the cause of the illness is driven deeper, prolonging the condition or causing more chronic problems.
Complex homoeopathic preparations, on the other hand, support and encourage this excretion process, which explains why symptoms can initially worsen. However this is only temporary and is encouraging as it usually suggests later long-term relief.
Unfortunately, for a variety of economic and social reasons, complex homoeopathic methods have yet to be widely accepted in the UK. Nevertheless results from continental research and our own experience indicate that they are often successful, particularly in chronic conditions, which have failed to respond to orthodox methods.
---------------
## On some threads I was writing to Murthy and Jacob that 'your training is incomplete'. I was referring to this aspect of Dr. Hahnemann's life.
Best wishes
Pankaj Varma
From: www(dot)avoncompmed.co.uk/homeop.html
COMPLEX HOMEOPATHY
The most widely used form of homeopathy in the UK is known as classical homoeopathy. This is based on the early work of Samuel Hahnemann, the founder of homoeopathy.
In classical homeopathy single remedies are used. These are decided by taking a complicated history of the condition, and taking into account the personality traits, likes and dislikes of the patient together with detailed history of previous medical conditions. A single preparation, at a single strength, is then prescribed.
Complex homeopathy has developed on the continent over the last thirty years, and this is now the main school of homoeopathy. Indeed, in Germany, complex homoeopathy is as widely used as orthodox medicine, with very large companies, rivalling the pharmaceutical companies, producing complex homoeopathic medicine.
These preparations contain mixtures of substances, and mixtures of strengths. Although this approach is tantamount to heresy to the classical practitioner,-## what is ignored is that Hahnemann himself was recommending mixed remedies in the later years of his life!##
This method therefore uses a wider approach, in that the body will respond to the medication it needs at that time. Furthermore, as treatment progresses, different constituents of the medicine may well become more relevant, and further response will occur accordingly.
There is an important concept behind this approach, which is directly contradictory to orthodox medicine. This is that the early stage of disease is a NATURAL AND APPROPRIATE DEFENCE MECHANISM. So increased excretion, for example of mucous in the common cold, is a method whereby the body is attempting to excrete the cause (ie the virus) of the illness. Diarrhoea in gastro-enteritis is an attempt by the body to clear toxic items taken with food, and there are other examples, such as sweating with flu, increased urine in bladder infections, and so on. In such a situation taking orthodox medicine, which suppresses this natural reaction, is only treating the symptoms, and the cause of the illness is driven deeper, prolonging the condition or causing more chronic problems.
Complex homoeopathic preparations, on the other hand, support and encourage this excretion process, which explains why symptoms can initially worsen. However this is only temporary and is encouraging as it usually suggests later long-term relief.
Unfortunately, for a variety of economic and social reasons, complex homoeopathic methods have yet to be widely accepted in the UK. Nevertheless results from continental research and our own experience indicate that they are often successful, particularly in chronic conditions, which have failed to respond to orthodox methods.
---------------
## On some threads I was writing to Murthy and Jacob that 'your training is incomplete'. I was referring to this aspect of Dr. Hahnemann's life.
Best wishes
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
The above article has been taken from the site of Dr. David Dawson. He is:
######
As well as his clinical commitment, Dr Dowson teaches acupuncture, homoeopathy, and allergy to fellow doctors, physiotherapists and to veterinary practitioners. He lectures extensively, particularly on M.E., and has advised the House of Commons, M.P., and the Select Committee of the House of Lords on Complementary Medicine.
######
Pankaj Varma
######
As well as his clinical commitment, Dr Dowson teaches acupuncture, homoeopathy, and allergy to fellow doctors, physiotherapists and to veterinary practitioners. He lectures extensively, particularly on M.E., and has advised the House of Commons, M.P., and the Select Committee of the House of Lords on Complementary Medicine.
######
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Quote
'Complex Homoeopathy is not a school of Homoeopathy.'
Good confession at the beginning itself.
*****************
' One of the main problems experienced by classical homeopaths is the multi-medicated patient, a type so regularly seen in clinics these days. This is the patient who has a history of use of medical drugs or recreational drugs (or both), which complicates the constitutional picture and interferes with the function of the constitutional remedy.'
In complex homeopathy too many 'medicinal drugs' are given together.Homeopathic medicines too are 'medicinal drugs.' How come these complex medicines won't complicate the constitutional picture,when allopathic medicines can do so?
****************
' It is interesting to note that Hahnemann himself began combining remedies in some difficult cases that weren't covered by a single remedy.'
This is an utterly wrong statement.Many historians have debunked this.
***************
' The combinations are low potencies, well below Avogadro's number'
That is the whole problem.They do contain molecules of the medicine, and act in an allopathic way.
The only difference being the quantity is smaller than normal allopathic medicines.
Now a days, the allopathic doses too are becoming smaller and smaller.
**************
' 1) The first principal is that low potencies act specifically within a structure or function. The time of activity is short and therefore the stimulus has to be repeated frequently.'
Wrong.Try aconite mother tincture.It is the lowest potency.And observe the effects.it acts throughout the body,including mind.
***************
'2) The second regards the fact that low potency remedies do not interact between themselves. Their action is synergistic and each enhances the therapeutic efficacy of the others without any inhibition of their own isolated activity.'
Wrong.Many times we find medicines with opposite actions combined together.
They may cancel the action of one another,rather than act synergetically.
**************
'They are used in the first instance to relieve the patient of pain and distress from their suffering and to provide immediate help, and this facilitates the classical prescription.'
So,ultimately the classical prescription is the only saviour, that can effect a cure.
Good admission.The above statement also clearly says these complex medicines can at best palliate.
That is not our goal. A classical homeopath can cure in his own classical way, without any need of using these concoctions first.
*************
'Complex homoeopathic preparations, on the other hand, support and encourage this excretion process, which explains why symptoms can initially worsen. However this is only temporary and is encouraging as it usually suggests later long-term relief.'
If complex medicines too aggravate, nobody would buy them.On one hand they say they provide quick relief, and on the other hand they say they will aggravate.
Nothing but a feeble attempt to fit these concoctions into the homeopathic mould.
finally, if you want quick relief, stick to your disprin,voveron,brufen,aspirin,vicks inhalers.
They are less dangerous,than these concoctions.
When you finally seek the help of a classical homeopath, it is easier to treat a person who used allopathy, than these complex medicines.
Either allopathy or classical homeopathy. There is no need of these mongrel combination medicines.
They are neither allopathy nor homeopathy ,but are an abominable cross.
Murthy
'Complex Homoeopathy is not a school of Homoeopathy.'
Good confession at the beginning itself.
*****************
' One of the main problems experienced by classical homeopaths is the multi-medicated patient, a type so regularly seen in clinics these days. This is the patient who has a history of use of medical drugs or recreational drugs (or both), which complicates the constitutional picture and interferes with the function of the constitutional remedy.'
In complex homeopathy too many 'medicinal drugs' are given together.Homeopathic medicines too are 'medicinal drugs.' How come these complex medicines won't complicate the constitutional picture,when allopathic medicines can do so?
****************
' It is interesting to note that Hahnemann himself began combining remedies in some difficult cases that weren't covered by a single remedy.'
This is an utterly wrong statement.Many historians have debunked this.
***************
' The combinations are low potencies, well below Avogadro's number'
That is the whole problem.They do contain molecules of the medicine, and act in an allopathic way.
The only difference being the quantity is smaller than normal allopathic medicines.
Now a days, the allopathic doses too are becoming smaller and smaller.
**************
' 1) The first principal is that low potencies act specifically within a structure or function. The time of activity is short and therefore the stimulus has to be repeated frequently.'
Wrong.Try aconite mother tincture.It is the lowest potency.And observe the effects.it acts throughout the body,including mind.
***************
'2) The second regards the fact that low potency remedies do not interact between themselves. Their action is synergistic and each enhances the therapeutic efficacy of the others without any inhibition of their own isolated activity.'
Wrong.Many times we find medicines with opposite actions combined together.
They may cancel the action of one another,rather than act synergetically.
**************
'They are used in the first instance to relieve the patient of pain and distress from their suffering and to provide immediate help, and this facilitates the classical prescription.'
So,ultimately the classical prescription is the only saviour, that can effect a cure.
Good admission.The above statement also clearly says these complex medicines can at best palliate.
That is not our goal. A classical homeopath can cure in his own classical way, without any need of using these concoctions first.
*************
'Complex homoeopathic preparations, on the other hand, support and encourage this excretion process, which explains why symptoms can initially worsen. However this is only temporary and is encouraging as it usually suggests later long-term relief.'
If complex medicines too aggravate, nobody would buy them.On one hand they say they provide quick relief, and on the other hand they say they will aggravate.
Nothing but a feeble attempt to fit these concoctions into the homeopathic mould.
finally, if you want quick relief, stick to your disprin,voveron,brufen,aspirin,vicks inhalers.
They are less dangerous,than these concoctions.
When you finally seek the help of a classical homeopath, it is easier to treat a person who used allopathy, than these complex medicines.
Either allopathy or classical homeopathy. There is no need of these mongrel combination medicines.
They are neither allopathy nor homeopathy ,but are an abominable cross.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Murthy ...your word against the word of qualified and experienced homeopathic doctors.
Let readers judge for themselves !!
How much experience in treating patients do you have Mr. Murthy ????
Pankaj Varma
Let readers judge for themselves !!
How much experience in treating patients do you have Mr. Murthy ????
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
' It is interesting to note that Hahnemann himself began combining remedies in some difficult cases that weren't covered by a single remedy.'
This is an utterly wrong statement.Many historians have debunked this. ...Murthy.
______________
Well....I will convey it to Dr. David Dawson that gavinimurthy thinks you are a liar !!
This is an utterly wrong statement.Many historians have debunked this. ...Murthy.
______________
Well....I will convey it to Dr. David Dawson that gavinimurthy thinks you are a liar !!
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
These are not my words alone.
Kent,GV,Dr.Luc,Dr.Vijayakar,Nash,Clarke,Tylor,David Little,Stuart close, to name a few, said similar things,which I verified in my practice.
I used combination medicines and found them useless,in the beginning of my practice.
I have about 4 years experience in treating patients, and single medicine is the one I always prescribe.
My success rate is 80%, so far.
The conditions I treated successfully are
Calcareous spurs,Cervical displasia,bronchitis,all sorts of fevers, headaches,cough and colds, and many many acute and chronic conditions.
Yes.Let the readers judge what is good for them.
Murthy
Kent,GV,Dr.Luc,Dr.Vijayakar,Nash,Clarke,Tylor,David Little,Stuart close, to name a few, said similar things,which I verified in my practice.
I used combination medicines and found them useless,in the beginning of my practice.
I have about 4 years experience in treating patients, and single medicine is the one I always prescribe.
My success rate is 80%, so far.
The conditions I treated successfully are
Calcareous spurs,Cervical displasia,bronchitis,all sorts of fevers, headaches,cough and colds, and many many acute and chronic conditions.
Yes.Let the readers judge what is good for them.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
I once again retreat.It is not much important whether combination medicine provide relief or not.
Any medicine of any therapy may fail, despite the best thought over treatment by the most learned Doctor.
Data available from various sources & the information being provided,in this forum, certianly shows that homeopathic combinations do provide relief.
So long so good.But the problem arises, when we observe that some how or other, it negate the homeopathic principles.
We always claim that the remedy must be prescribed for the patient & not the disease,
unfotunately, the prescription in case of combination medicines are entirely based on disease.Therefore it lacks the homeopathicity.
But at the end of the day, patients are receiving such combinatios and claiming relief also.In my opinion , we must study the effect further with the help of clinical trials & prominent manufacturers must come up with the supporting data, on combination medicines.
Any medicine of any therapy may fail, despite the best thought over treatment by the most learned Doctor.
Data available from various sources & the information being provided,in this forum, certianly shows that homeopathic combinations do provide relief.
So long so good.But the problem arises, when we observe that some how or other, it negate the homeopathic principles.
We always claim that the remedy must be prescribed for the patient & not the disease,
unfotunately, the prescription in case of combination medicines are entirely based on disease.Therefore it lacks the homeopathicity.
But at the end of the day, patients are receiving such combinatios and claiming relief also.In my opinion , we must study the effect further with the help of clinical trials & prominent manufacturers must come up with the supporting data, on combination medicines.
sbahl last decade
Dear friends,
There can be no question about the fact that people always look for relief to their troubling physical symptoms.Once they suside, they are happy and then they can carry on with their life not bothering about 'disease', 'health' etc.These things become abstract issues affecting others.That is the main reason why allopathy has been flourishing all these years.Many people know that it suppresses the symptoms and yet they choose it because of the fast relief (supression) it provides.It is only when the symptoms can no longer be suppressed without grievous and intolerable consequences to health that most people seel alternative health systems.
The combination remedies are aimed at relieving the specific symptoms which are clearly mentioned on the medicine bottle itself.The manufacturers themselves never claim a 'cure'.They are only looking to provide relief.These medicines sell because these combinations can relieve many times conditions which allopathy cannot.As long as one is clear what one is looking for, there is hardly any scope for debate.
It is only when someone starts claiming that combination medicines 'cure' which the manufacturers themselves never claim, that genuine homeopaths start to get disturbed because that is not true.
Why claim greater holiness for the holy man than what he himself is claiming? When the manufacturers are only looking to provide 'relief' why others should claim 'cure'.That is a great puzzle to me.
I would certainly wish to be enlightened if someone can enlighten me further on this matter.
My third and fourth pennies to this debate!!I hope people kep themselves in good humour.Humour is one of the sustainers of health like our lady from India keeps emphasising!!
Rajiv
There can be no question about the fact that people always look for relief to their troubling physical symptoms.Once they suside, they are happy and then they can carry on with their life not bothering about 'disease', 'health' etc.These things become abstract issues affecting others.That is the main reason why allopathy has been flourishing all these years.Many people know that it suppresses the symptoms and yet they choose it because of the fast relief (supression) it provides.It is only when the symptoms can no longer be suppressed without grievous and intolerable consequences to health that most people seel alternative health systems.
The combination remedies are aimed at relieving the specific symptoms which are clearly mentioned on the medicine bottle itself.The manufacturers themselves never claim a 'cure'.They are only looking to provide relief.These medicines sell because these combinations can relieve many times conditions which allopathy cannot.As long as one is clear what one is looking for, there is hardly any scope for debate.
It is only when someone starts claiming that combination medicines 'cure' which the manufacturers themselves never claim, that genuine homeopaths start to get disturbed because that is not true.
Why claim greater holiness for the holy man than what he himself is claiming? When the manufacturers are only looking to provide 'relief' why others should claim 'cure'.That is a great puzzle to me.
I would certainly wish to be enlightened if someone can enlighten me further on this matter.
My third and fourth pennies to this debate!!I hope people kep themselves in good humour.Humour is one of the sustainers of health like our lady from India keeps emphasising!!
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
Dear Rajiv,
Your post makes a great deal of sense.
As far as I am concerned, I am bringing to the knowledge of members here ...what else exists....and new fields where research is going on.
Your post also revives the question that I had raised earlier..how to measure 'cure' and 'palliation' ? If you remember my question about having a meter that would read the strength of the 'Vital Force'.
All this is food for thought.
Even I don't have answers to it yet. But ...would like to have one.
People are talking of Bio-resonance in homeopathy. Some homeopaths utilise it in their work everyday. Maybe, they might have an answer...or might find an answer.
Best wishes,
Pankaj Varma
Your post makes a great deal of sense.
As far as I am concerned, I am bringing to the knowledge of members here ...what else exists....and new fields where research is going on.
Your post also revives the question that I had raised earlier..how to measure 'cure' and 'palliation' ? If you remember my question about having a meter that would read the strength of the 'Vital Force'.
All this is food for thought.
Even I don't have answers to it yet. But ...would like to have one.
People are talking of Bio-resonance in homeopathy. Some homeopaths utilise it in their work everyday. Maybe, they might have an answer...or might find an answer.
Best wishes,
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Unbiased clinicals are only possible if Homeopaths consider a combination medicine or any materia as a Medicine.
They say it is not a medicine at all. It would, should and could not work because it violates the organon.
So it is not a medicine at all.
They say it is not a medicine at all. It would, should and could not work because it violates the organon.
So it is not a medicine at all.
kuldeep last decade
allopathy is better than these combination medicines, as allopathic medicines have undergone very detailed clinical trials, even before introduction.
The side effects and complications are known in advance,and doctors are trained in handling the side effects/complications.
Both of them suppress,but better get bitten by the known evil, than the unknown one.
There is a hope of recovery with the former,but, none with the later.
so,for fast relief, stick to your voveron, aspirin, paracetamol, brufen, vicks inhalers. they are better.
murthy
The side effects and complications are known in advance,and doctors are trained in handling the side effects/complications.
Both of them suppress,but better get bitten by the known evil, than the unknown one.
There is a hope of recovery with the former,but, none with the later.
so,for fast relief, stick to your voveron, aspirin, paracetamol, brufen, vicks inhalers. they are better.
murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Dear Pankaj,
I don't know how much you are into following the latest researh in Physics.I have a very deep interest personally.Specially the fascinating world of Quantum Physics.
You know, one conclusion that has been reached unanimously is that a model of thought cannot be applied to the quantum domain.An electron is not a particle of matter but a probability distribution of the possible locations where it could be found at an instant of time.The probability wave function materialises into an electron when we seek to find it.So, physicists are realising that what we take to be our concrete reality appears so concrete because we are conditioned by our expectations of finding a concrete world.The human body is 99% space and only 1% matter!!But our eyes deceive us into believing the 'myth' of a concrete body because they are not equipped to see the 'huge' (relatively speaking) intracellular spaces that exist in our body.
Then there is this myth of 'time' which they have started to discover now.This 'impossibility' of an object being at two or more places at the same time.Well even this holy 'myth' has been broken forcing the scientists to redefine an electron as a wave function which can exist at the same time at an infinite number of places.Exactly where it will manifest materially depends upon where the 'observer' expects to find it.So, all is 'Maya' (illusion) which our enlightened Rishis (sages) have been telling us down the ages.
In this new perspective of emergent science, the solid sanctity of the 'observer's ability to observe' and the 'concrete reality of the observed world' are both very tenuous and insecure.In such a changed scenario where our accustomed 'ways of looking' at the world are increasingly found to be inadequate, i think this insistence to develop a meter to measure the 'vital force' and to measure the levels of 'palliation' and 'cure' is extremely optimistic and a bit naive, if i may say so.
Homeopathy was a miraculous 'pathy' for the Science of yesterday, but it is not so for today's Science.A lot of research is currently going on which will surely in this century reveal why and how these remedies work despite there being no traces of matter in them.For example, there is this research going on the M4 state where all the elements of the periodic table break the barriesr and start to behave like one.Who knows, all of us may be literally one.The tiny cells of a gigantic multi-cellular God.
Be happy and bring happiness to other members of this forum by your Guru's grace.
With lots of love,
Your brother,
Rajiv
I don't know how much you are into following the latest researh in Physics.I have a very deep interest personally.Specially the fascinating world of Quantum Physics.
You know, one conclusion that has been reached unanimously is that a model of thought cannot be applied to the quantum domain.An electron is not a particle of matter but a probability distribution of the possible locations where it could be found at an instant of time.The probability wave function materialises into an electron when we seek to find it.So, physicists are realising that what we take to be our concrete reality appears so concrete because we are conditioned by our expectations of finding a concrete world.The human body is 99% space and only 1% matter!!But our eyes deceive us into believing the 'myth' of a concrete body because they are not equipped to see the 'huge' (relatively speaking) intracellular spaces that exist in our body.
Then there is this myth of 'time' which they have started to discover now.This 'impossibility' of an object being at two or more places at the same time.Well even this holy 'myth' has been broken forcing the scientists to redefine an electron as a wave function which can exist at the same time at an infinite number of places.Exactly where it will manifest materially depends upon where the 'observer' expects to find it.So, all is 'Maya' (illusion) which our enlightened Rishis (sages) have been telling us down the ages.
In this new perspective of emergent science, the solid sanctity of the 'observer's ability to observe' and the 'concrete reality of the observed world' are both very tenuous and insecure.In such a changed scenario where our accustomed 'ways of looking' at the world are increasingly found to be inadequate, i think this insistence to develop a meter to measure the 'vital force' and to measure the levels of 'palliation' and 'cure' is extremely optimistic and a bit naive, if i may say so.
Homeopathy was a miraculous 'pathy' for the Science of yesterday, but it is not so for today's Science.A lot of research is currently going on which will surely in this century reveal why and how these remedies work despite there being no traces of matter in them.For example, there is this research going on the M4 state where all the elements of the periodic table break the barriesr and start to behave like one.Who knows, all of us may be literally one.The tiny cells of a gigantic multi-cellular God.
Be happy and bring happiness to other members of this forum by your Guru's grace.
With lots of love,
Your brother,
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
Dear Rajiv,
As an Electronics Engineer, I have obviously studied Physics..right to the stage of Nuclear Physics.
I have always believed that some day ..science will find a way to convert energy into matter..which is the reverse of Einstien's Theory of Relativity (E=mc2)....where he has given a relationship that mass when broken into energy gives a quantity of energy determined by his famous equation E=mc squared.
All matter is composed of electrons, neutrons and protons....which are energy particles.
(This matches with the concept of 'Maya').
All elements in the Periodic Table are made up of electrons, protons and neutrons....only for each element...the mix of the electrons, protons and neutrons is different....hence the atomic weight is different.
A day will come when some scientist will compress energy into matter. That will prove...everything is 'Maya'....made of energy!!
SAI BABA is already doing it through his Divine Powers...when he produces Vibhuti and other things from 'thin air'.
Till now we know...one form of energy gets converted into another form of energy...sound to light to mechanical to magnetic to electronic and so on ....
We have yet to see a scientist converting energy into mass.
All nerves in the body carry energy signals..homeopathic meds (in my view) stimulate the nodal points of the nerves ..thereby bringing a change in the energy signals...in turn the body responds. ( A simple explaination I use for myself).
We are all hoping new research will bring new insights and more advanced ways of treating patients.
Thanks for your fine wishes and I reciprocate the same in an equal measure.
Best wishes,
Pankaj Varma
As an Electronics Engineer, I have obviously studied Physics..right to the stage of Nuclear Physics.
I have always believed that some day ..science will find a way to convert energy into matter..which is the reverse of Einstien's Theory of Relativity (E=mc2)....where he has given a relationship that mass when broken into energy gives a quantity of energy determined by his famous equation E=mc squared.
All matter is composed of electrons, neutrons and protons....which are energy particles.
(This matches with the concept of 'Maya').
All elements in the Periodic Table are made up of electrons, protons and neutrons....only for each element...the mix of the electrons, protons and neutrons is different....hence the atomic weight is different.
A day will come when some scientist will compress energy into matter. That will prove...everything is 'Maya'....made of energy!!
SAI BABA is already doing it through his Divine Powers...when he produces Vibhuti and other things from 'thin air'.
Till now we know...one form of energy gets converted into another form of energy...sound to light to mechanical to magnetic to electronic and so on ....
We have yet to see a scientist converting energy into mass.
All nerves in the body carry energy signals..homeopathic meds (in my view) stimulate the nodal points of the nerves ..thereby bringing a change in the energy signals...in turn the body responds. ( A simple explaination I use for myself).
We are all hoping new research will bring new insights and more advanced ways of treating patients.
Thanks for your fine wishes and I reciprocate the same in an equal measure.
Best wishes,
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Einstein Explains the Equivalence of Energy and Matter
To listen to Albert Einstein explain his famous formula:
Click here for a 1203 K .wav file.
Click here for a 436 K .au file.
Click here for a 109 K .mp3 file.
'It followed from the special theory of relativity that mass and energy are both but different manifestations of the same thing -- a somewhat unfamiliar conception for the average mind. Furthermore, the equation E is equal to m c-squared, in which energy is put equal to mass, multiplied by the square of the velocity of light, showed that very small amounts of mass may be converted into a very large amount of energy and vice versa. The mass and energy were in fact equivalent, according to the formula mentioned above. This was demonstrated by Cockcroft and Walton in 1932, experimentally.'
http://www.aip.org/history/einstein/voice1.htm
*************
Einstein himself says, a large amount of energy can be converted into mass.
Where is the question of doubt?
No divine powers are needed to do it.
Why bring in SAIBABA's vibhuti here?
If he can produce things from thin air, let him produce gold coins and give it to the poor. Poverty in India can be eradicated in one day.
Why produce useless 'vibhuti'?
Everybody knows how this useless 'vibhuti' is produced. Any roadside magician can do this trick.
Let us confine our discussions to the subject matter,rather than trying to win disciples to your 'Swamyji'.
Murthy
To listen to Albert Einstein explain his famous formula:
Click here for a 1203 K .wav file.
Click here for a 436 K .au file.
Click here for a 109 K .mp3 file.
'It followed from the special theory of relativity that mass and energy are both but different manifestations of the same thing -- a somewhat unfamiliar conception for the average mind. Furthermore, the equation E is equal to m c-squared, in which energy is put equal to mass, multiplied by the square of the velocity of light, showed that very small amounts of mass may be converted into a very large amount of energy and vice versa. The mass and energy were in fact equivalent, according to the formula mentioned above. This was demonstrated by Cockcroft and Walton in 1932, experimentally.'
http://www.aip.org/history/einstein/voice1.htm
*************
Einstein himself says, a large amount of energy can be converted into mass.
Where is the question of doubt?
No divine powers are needed to do it.
Why bring in SAIBABA's vibhuti here?
If he can produce things from thin air, let him produce gold coins and give it to the poor. Poverty in India can be eradicated in one day.
Why produce useless 'vibhuti'?
Everybody knows how this useless 'vibhuti' is produced. Any roadside magician can do this trick.
Let us confine our discussions to the subject matter,rather than trying to win disciples to your 'Swamyji'.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Dear Pankaj,
Nice to know that you are an electronics engineer.
I also have a very deep interest in subjects like astrology, numerology, sacred numerology, sacred geometry and spirituality in a general sense.I always wonder about the paranormal phenomena that some people are able to exhibit sometimes.That includes people like Sai Baba.
Many people who have been kind enough to share their experiences of a deep state of meditation often describe the sensation of being pulled up into some kind of a spiral wherein higher they go the more widely awakened and lighter they feel.In such a state, they lose the sense of time, narrow individual egos, seem to have greater understanding and so on.
My sense is that as we potentise these remedies, we are somehow climbing higher into the spiral that envelops this universe where we reside.It is from this spiral that this healing energy comes.But then, the spiral contains all the possible frequencies and different substances are manifestations of energies of different (unique) frequencies and hence we need to match the remedy to the person sitting before us.
Any way its a fascinating subject and i just thought i will share some of my ideas.If some people are interested in this kind of a discussion, i will write more when i have more time.But i definitely plan to study these subjects more with a hope of somehow integrating a number of these subjects.
For example, i always look at horoscopes of people for whom i have seen certain remedies working, trying to figure out the astrological signature of the different remedies.Till now, i have found a few signatures.Will research more later when i have more time and then publish the results in a book.
Any way, thanks for responding to my earlier post.I had thought it may be a dry topic to you.I also feel that this world has had enough of competition, selfishness, oneupmanship and hate.These things have brought us very close to destruction.It is time that at least some of us in some of the places like this forum try to bring in the universal power of love.I invite others to join me in this effort.Let us debate and discuss; but in love and not in hate.
Rajiv
Rajiv
Nice to know that you are an electronics engineer.
I also have a very deep interest in subjects like astrology, numerology, sacred numerology, sacred geometry and spirituality in a general sense.I always wonder about the paranormal phenomena that some people are able to exhibit sometimes.That includes people like Sai Baba.
Many people who have been kind enough to share their experiences of a deep state of meditation often describe the sensation of being pulled up into some kind of a spiral wherein higher they go the more widely awakened and lighter they feel.In such a state, they lose the sense of time, narrow individual egos, seem to have greater understanding and so on.
My sense is that as we potentise these remedies, we are somehow climbing higher into the spiral that envelops this universe where we reside.It is from this spiral that this healing energy comes.But then, the spiral contains all the possible frequencies and different substances are manifestations of energies of different (unique) frequencies and hence we need to match the remedy to the person sitting before us.
Any way its a fascinating subject and i just thought i will share some of my ideas.If some people are interested in this kind of a discussion, i will write more when i have more time.But i definitely plan to study these subjects more with a hope of somehow integrating a number of these subjects.
For example, i always look at horoscopes of people for whom i have seen certain remedies working, trying to figure out the astrological signature of the different remedies.Till now, i have found a few signatures.Will research more later when i have more time and then publish the results in a book.
Any way, thanks for responding to my earlier post.I had thought it may be a dry topic to you.I also feel that this world has had enough of competition, selfishness, oneupmanship and hate.These things have brought us very close to destruction.It is time that at least some of us in some of the places like this forum try to bring in the universal power of love.I invite others to join me in this effort.Let us debate and discuss; but in love and not in hate.
Rajiv
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
Dear Mr.Murthy,
I request you most humbly to not throw ridicule on Sai Baba as believing in a Guru is a very personal choice and a very 'sacred' one to the person concerned.Ridiculing a Guru like this hurts the person very deeply and may mar the personal relationship between two people to an irreparable extent.I am trying my best to bring about a spirit of friendliness at least if not love and cooperation on this forum.Please listen to my request.
I will be very grateful to you.Besides faith is 'sacred' and it does not matter what is the truth at an absolute level.We should respect the 'conditional personal truths' which includes faith in a particular spiritual teacher.
Rajiv
I request you most humbly to not throw ridicule on Sai Baba as believing in a Guru is a very personal choice and a very 'sacred' one to the person concerned.Ridiculing a Guru like this hurts the person very deeply and may mar the personal relationship between two people to an irreparable extent.I am trying my best to bring about a spirit of friendliness at least if not love and cooperation on this forum.Please listen to my request.
I will be very grateful to you.Besides faith is 'sacred' and it does not matter what is the truth at an absolute level.We should respect the 'conditional personal truths' which includes faith in a particular spiritual teacher.
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
Man knows how to convert 'mass' into 'energy'.
The Nuclear Plants are an example, the Atom Bomb is an example.
Man does not know yet how to convert 'energy' into 'mass'.
Even though a mathematical relationship between the two has been established.
This is the crux of what I said earlier.
We are talking of Applied Science...not theories alone.
Pankaj Varma
The Nuclear Plants are an example, the Atom Bomb is an example.
Man does not know yet how to convert 'energy' into 'mass'.
Even though a mathematical relationship between the two has been established.
This is the crux of what I said earlier.
We are talking of Applied Science...not theories alone.
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Dear Rajiv
What is the necessity of bringing SAIBABA's Vibhuti, into a discussion on Einstein's theory of relativity?
Let serious issues be discussed in a serious way.
You might have noticed that I will not say anything contraversial on my own.
I do so only when I am provoked.
Anyway, i will take your advice.
But,let there be restraint and goodwill from the other side too.
Murthy
What is the necessity of bringing SAIBABA's Vibhuti, into a discussion on Einstein's theory of relativity?
Let serious issues be discussed in a serious way.
You might have noticed that I will not say anything contraversial on my own.
I do so only when I am provoked.
Anyway, i will take your advice.
But,let there be restraint and goodwill from the other side too.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Try to locate this paper and read.
'This was demonstrated by Cockcroft and Walton in 1932, experimentally.'
Murthy
'This was demonstrated by Cockcroft and Walton in 1932, experimentally.'
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Yes there is a branch of homeopathy ...that co-relates position of planets in the horoscope with the homeopathic simillium. Cell Salts are a better match.
Astrology has always indicated ..what kind of disease the person will be prone to.
For example: Libra...weak intestines.
Pankaj Varma
Astrology has always indicated ..what kind of disease the person will be prone to.
For example: Libra...weak intestines.
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Dear Mr.Murthy,
It certainly needs two hands to clap.But then it also means that both the hands need one another.Its a matter of perspective.Whether the two hands are joining to produce an empty sound or joining in a strong and firm friendship to help the people who need their help.
Let the two (rather multiple) hands join together at this forum to help people.I am sure Pankaj will also cooperate.I don't think he is behaving with a bad or malafide intention.It is just that his experiences with homeopathy have confirmed him in his way of practicing it.
May peace prevail from now on.
Rajiv
It certainly needs two hands to clap.But then it also means that both the hands need one another.Its a matter of perspective.Whether the two hands are joining to produce an empty sound or joining in a strong and firm friendship to help the people who need their help.
Let the two (rather multiple) hands join together at this forum to help people.I am sure Pankaj will also cooperate.I don't think he is behaving with a bad or malafide intention.It is just that his experiences with homeopathy have confirmed him in his way of practicing it.
May peace prevail from now on.
Rajiv
♡ rajivprasad last decade
I am with you Rajiv
Lot of my energy is being diverted towards these useless arguments.
I can use it better, for bringing in more information for the benefit of all.
Let us hope,peace will prevail from now on.
I appreciate your well meaning eforts.
Murthy
Lot of my energy is being diverted towards these useless arguments.
I can use it better, for bringing in more information for the benefit of all.
Let us hope,peace will prevail from now on.
I appreciate your well meaning eforts.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Dear All,
I am really amazed at the enthusiasm of the participants of this discussion.Each one of you have fantastically unique approach, to put forward your point of view.Each of you really love homeopathy & truely deserve compliments.
This discussion has gone circular now, & as you are all aware, that no final conclusions are possible, in circular discussions. however it must not deter us from further debates.
Further, I will like to put forward Hanemann's views on the nature of disease, through the papers of Peter Morrell.
ESSENCE OF DISEAES
When Hahnemann astutely argues, because 'by far the greatest number of diseases are of dynamic [spiritual] origin and dynamic [spiritual] in nature [therefore] their cause is not perceptible to the senses,' [Organon, 2] he means that sickness is always a dynamic [spiritual] derangement of the life-force. This is a central theme, which he emphasises by repeating endlessly throughout the Organon and several other essays. It therefore logically follows from this position that true cure could not be material or perceptible either, but must also be dynamic [spiritual] in nature; Hahnemann demands that the cure should correspond to the cause. Yet, when Hahnemann then examines allopathy, he finds no confirmation of this view.
Allopathy has always maintained that it can 'draw conclusions relative to the invisible process whereby the changes which take place in the inward being of man in diseases,' [Organon, 2] can be perceived and utilised in therapy. Furthermore, they have never deviated from the employment of material drugs to address dynamic diseasesa mismatch Hahnemann is eager to pounce on. They therefore proposed that 'the internal essence of the disease, the disease itself,' [Organon, 2] could be understood and defined. However, in Hahnemanns view such a contention regarding 'this imperceptible internal essence,' [Organon, 2] was a delusion, a fabrication springing from a fevered imagination on the part of allopathic physicians: 'a bogus prospectus, the child of an overactive imagination, like designs for a perpetual motion machine.' [Berlin, 1979, 110] Hahnemann makes it very clear that he regards any alleged internal essence of disease to be a fiction, a fantasy.
Nevertheless, as Hahnemann points out, enormous effort has been invested by old school physicians concerning 'an internal invisible cause of disease conjectures that have been dignified by the followers of the old school with the title of causal indication, and considered to be the only possible rationality in medicine.' [Organon, 3] Hahnemann impatiently dismisses such ideas as preposterous 'assumptions, too fallacious and hypothetical to prove of any practical utility flattering to the vanity of the learned theorist, but usually leading astray when used as guides to practice.' [Organon, 3] It would be difficult to imagine a more robust dismissal of the very idea.
Hahnemann proposes that old school physicians had indeed based their whole system upon the removal of these imagined causes of sickness, and this is why he even considers this matter worthy of comment. He states that 'the old school of medicine believe it might cure diseases in a direct manner by the removal of the [imaginary] material cause of disease,' [Organon, 4] and as he further states, they found it 'next to impossible to divest themselves of these materialistic ideas.' [Organon, 4] One reason Hahnemann focuses on this topic is that he trained in the old school methods himself and has studied it in depth. He feels this makes him qualified to criticise it. Having failed to produce cures using those methods, he advises against them. He therefore concludes that those 'functional vital changes, which are called diseases, must be produced and effected chiefly, if not solely, by dynamic [spiritual] influences and could not be effected in any other way.' [Organon, 4] This is a pretty clear and unambiguous statement of Hahnemann defending homeopathy against any materialistic conception of disease cause and cure. He identifies very clearly his own view of the nature of homeopathy and of diseaseboth being dynamic in character, rather than chemical, bacterial, molecular or genetic.
When Hahnemann uses the words direct manner he amplifies the meaning of this phrase in a footnote to the main text by saying the use of 'violent, always hurtful evacuant drugs.' [Organon, 4] He clearly wishes to sharply contrast such brutal and uncurative measures against the simple, harmless and curative measures employed in homeopathy. So as to clarify and extend his meaning, he also adds that in some cases a 'dynamic origin' of a disease can mean 'caused by mental disturbance [grief, fright, and vexation], a chill, and over-exertion of the mind or body.' [Organon, 4]
Dr S bahl
I am really amazed at the enthusiasm of the participants of this discussion.Each one of you have fantastically unique approach, to put forward your point of view.Each of you really love homeopathy & truely deserve compliments.
This discussion has gone circular now, & as you are all aware, that no final conclusions are possible, in circular discussions. however it must not deter us from further debates.
Further, I will like to put forward Hanemann's views on the nature of disease, through the papers of Peter Morrell.
ESSENCE OF DISEAES
When Hahnemann astutely argues, because 'by far the greatest number of diseases are of dynamic [spiritual] origin and dynamic [spiritual] in nature [therefore] their cause is not perceptible to the senses,' [Organon, 2] he means that sickness is always a dynamic [spiritual] derangement of the life-force. This is a central theme, which he emphasises by repeating endlessly throughout the Organon and several other essays. It therefore logically follows from this position that true cure could not be material or perceptible either, but must also be dynamic [spiritual] in nature; Hahnemann demands that the cure should correspond to the cause. Yet, when Hahnemann then examines allopathy, he finds no confirmation of this view.
Allopathy has always maintained that it can 'draw conclusions relative to the invisible process whereby the changes which take place in the inward being of man in diseases,' [Organon, 2] can be perceived and utilised in therapy. Furthermore, they have never deviated from the employment of material drugs to address dynamic diseasesa mismatch Hahnemann is eager to pounce on. They therefore proposed that 'the internal essence of the disease, the disease itself,' [Organon, 2] could be understood and defined. However, in Hahnemanns view such a contention regarding 'this imperceptible internal essence,' [Organon, 2] was a delusion, a fabrication springing from a fevered imagination on the part of allopathic physicians: 'a bogus prospectus, the child of an overactive imagination, like designs for a perpetual motion machine.' [Berlin, 1979, 110] Hahnemann makes it very clear that he regards any alleged internal essence of disease to be a fiction, a fantasy.
Nevertheless, as Hahnemann points out, enormous effort has been invested by old school physicians concerning 'an internal invisible cause of disease conjectures that have been dignified by the followers of the old school with the title of causal indication, and considered to be the only possible rationality in medicine.' [Organon, 3] Hahnemann impatiently dismisses such ideas as preposterous 'assumptions, too fallacious and hypothetical to prove of any practical utility flattering to the vanity of the learned theorist, but usually leading astray when used as guides to practice.' [Organon, 3] It would be difficult to imagine a more robust dismissal of the very idea.
Hahnemann proposes that old school physicians had indeed based their whole system upon the removal of these imagined causes of sickness, and this is why he even considers this matter worthy of comment. He states that 'the old school of medicine believe it might cure diseases in a direct manner by the removal of the [imaginary] material cause of disease,' [Organon, 4] and as he further states, they found it 'next to impossible to divest themselves of these materialistic ideas.' [Organon, 4] One reason Hahnemann focuses on this topic is that he trained in the old school methods himself and has studied it in depth. He feels this makes him qualified to criticise it. Having failed to produce cures using those methods, he advises against them. He therefore concludes that those 'functional vital changes, which are called diseases, must be produced and effected chiefly, if not solely, by dynamic [spiritual] influences and could not be effected in any other way.' [Organon, 4] This is a pretty clear and unambiguous statement of Hahnemann defending homeopathy against any materialistic conception of disease cause and cure. He identifies very clearly his own view of the nature of homeopathy and of diseaseboth being dynamic in character, rather than chemical, bacterial, molecular or genetic.
When Hahnemann uses the words direct manner he amplifies the meaning of this phrase in a footnote to the main text by saying the use of 'violent, always hurtful evacuant drugs.' [Organon, 4] He clearly wishes to sharply contrast such brutal and uncurative measures against the simple, harmless and curative measures employed in homeopathy. So as to clarify and extend his meaning, he also adds that in some cases a 'dynamic origin' of a disease can mean 'caused by mental disturbance [grief, fright, and vexation], a chill, and over-exertion of the mind or body.' [Organon, 4]
Dr S bahl
sbahl last decade
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