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How to antidote without using a remedy...

Someone I'm treating needs to antidote a remedy a bit. The patient took 8 doses of 200c Calc-C over 5 days (3 teaspoons each) because they didn't think they were getting enough.

This is the right remedy, they just took far too much, and the doses built on one another.

There is a mix of reeruptions of acne and sycosis, which is a good sign, but there are a few prooving symptoms that appeared after taking the multiple doses.

I had the patient try some mints, and that didn't help much. I don't want to give another remedy to antidote it because it is having a beneficial effect? Is there something that can be a partial antidote?
  BeginningHomeopath on 2008-09-26
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
One suggestion, but involves again the use of homeopahics.Would be to give a 30c of the same remedy and after some time give another dose of the 200c, this could help.

good luck
Albert last decade
Waiting would for atleast 6 weeks after the doses is the best thing to do right now.

If some troublesome accessory symptoms remain after even 6 weeks, the closest anti-dote should be used in a SINGLE olfaction dose in the 6c potency.

I have personally tried this many times, and this will not undo the good done by the remedy.
sameervermani last decade
Thanks Sameer,
The remedy is doing alot of good, I think even at this point. There are daily some skin eruptions of pimples and such. However with all the doses several uneasy side effects have come up, which are problems.

The patient is ok waiting, but several symptoms are uncomfortable, mostly minor diaharea. It's been 10 days since he took the last dose.

Interestingly, the remedy is starting to fade a bit. The benifits have held for 10 days, and the response is good. A few of the symptoms are returning.

There are a few minor effects from taking too much, but also, the symptoms are just starting to return a little bit.

Before he took too many doses, 200c was barely holding even with 3 teaspoons.

Before me, some other homeopath gave this patient different 10 remedies for a year and the patient prooved every one in 6c. I choose the correct remedy and started the patient off on 6c, then increased to 30c, to 100c, and now to 200c. The patient took too many doses on their own.
BeginningHomeopath last decade
If the symptoms come back with the same intensity in just 10 days after 200c, there must be a reason for it, that would need to be addressed first.

But, right now, it is too soon to be doing anything. I think you should let the reaction come to a complete halt.
sameervermani last decade
Hi Sameer,

When the patient came to me, he was extremely aggravated by the remedy from a former homeopath. I gave him 6c of Calc-C, and he immediately felt great, but it held for about 15 minutes, and we repeated frequently. A week later we tried 30c which he also repeated with much improvement. On Aug 31, he got the 200c of Calc-C, and took several doses over a few days. This held for seven days. Overall there was tremendous improvement with the Calc-C.

In this case, there has been a lot of reeruptions on previous remedies and on this one. However, the psychological symptoms stand out the most in this case.

After this, he took 8 doses over five days (Sept 10-14) (1 200c pellet into a 700ml remedy bottle, two teaspoons into a 17oz dilution bottle, and then three teaspoons taken) and began to experience some symptoms he had never had of the remedy. The patient was using 10 succussions with every dose!

There are a variety of pimples, bumps, and acne returning, which is a good sign. However, there are a variety of accessory symptoms which have come up which the patient has never had, (burning red on the genitals which has faded, sweating on the back of neck.)

There are some emotional symptoms of fear and worry, which the patient has not had this bad in 15 years. I don't think this is a replay of symptoms. I think this is an aggravation. Especially with the new symptoms.

I gave the patient one olfaction dose of 6c this evening. And the patient immediately felt better.

What now? Do they take another dose of 200c soon? Or wait?
BeginningHomeopath last decade

Potencies starting 200c should not be repeated so frequently even in wet dose form. When you give sucussions to the high C potencies and repeat them, the body does not receive it as well as lets say it would receive LMs. This is very contrary to what some of the modern 'gurus' like Dr. Luc will say, but then many of the modern homeopaths have no basis for their theories whatsoever.

But, the more you experiment with this 'high potency sucussed and given like LMs method' , the more you will realize it's inherent flaws.

The reason for this is the following.

C potencies already have so many sucussions built in them that when you sucuss them 10 more times, it produces a tiny change in their dynamization e.g. a 200c sucussed 10 times only increases the dynamization by a factor of 10/2000 or 0.5% as 2000 sucussions are already built in it. Such a small change in dynamization is not perceived by the vital force, and it is viewed as same potency impinging upon it again and again.

This problem does not occur with LM potencies as there is no weight of strong sucussions in LMs.

I am extremely sure, that right now the patient does not need ANY more of Calcarea whatsoever, and in fact any more of the remedy will implant further accessory symptoms. Now, the more of these 'suscussed 200c' doses the patient receives now , he will start getting these 'calcarea' attacks on an on and off basis where the medicinal disease will attach itself to the vital force permanently. Be careful.

You gave olfaction dose of Calcarea 6c or some anti-dote ?
sameervermani last decade
Thank you Sameer,

I gave a 6c by olfaction and the patient feels much better. Since the olfaction, there have been no accessory symptoms at all.

Should I wait one week or more at this point?
BeginningHomeopath last decade

This patient responded severely to many other remedies that the previous homeopath gave them in 6c. This is the reason I started out with a 6c dose, in case the patient was extremely hypersensitive. The patient surprised me by tolerating the higher doses well. It turns out that they are not hypersensitive, the previous homeopath just gave them the wrong remedies.

When they responded well to 30c, I thought about moving the case to LM1, but did not because it would take some time for an LM1 to get shipped to them. Would you suggest that I move the case to LM1, which is what I would have done otherwise?
BeginningHomeopath last decade
Yes, I gave olfaction dose of 6c Calc-C.
BeginningHomeopath last decade
No need for an LM right now as the relief given by the 6c olfaction dose means that the remedy was severely over-dosed, and is no longer needed now.

And, do not think that LMs will cause less harm when given unnecassarily. When needed, yes, LMs bear repetition much better than let us say a 200c or even a 30c. But if the body is already saturated with the remedy, the LM of the same remedy can cause even worse provings. LMs are very deeply penetrating.

I would not even think of giving this remedy again any time soon.
sameervermani last decade
How long would you expect to wait? Two weeks or longer?

Thank you for your help with this Sameer.
BeginningHomeopath last decade
Even after this olfaction, the patient reports feeling better than before starting the Calc-C.
BeginningHomeopath last decade
Ok let me try putting it this way...I am saying, now that she reports feeling better than before starting the Calc, what this is telling me is that Calc is not the similimum based on her 'current' state as anti-doting the higher potencies through the olfaction dose of 6c has given the patient relief.

I would give a gap of atleast 1 week, and then pick the new remedy.

Ad, you're welcome !
sameervermani last decade

The patient reports that after olfaction he feels the same as the improvement offered by the Calc-C in previous doses. Several hours after the oflaction, he feels great, and feels similar to when he first took the Calc-C.

Prior to taking the Calc-C, the patient was in a miserable aggravation from the wrong remedy. He reported an incredible improvement after taking the Calc-C. That is the state that he is comparing to.
BeginningHomeopath last decade

I described this situation incorrectly.

The patient reports that after olfaction of 6c, they felt better than when they took too many doses. He says that the Calc-C has been the best remedy he has ever been on, and that mostly he feels great on the remedy.

Before I gave him this remedy he had worked with another homeopath for one year who gave him single drops of many 6c remedies all of which he prooved. (Nux V., Rhus., Arg-N, Nat-S, Lach, Lyco, Arg-N, Rhus, and Ars.).

When I gave him the Calc-C, he responded very, very well. He had never been able to take more than a 6c before, and so with Calc-C he tolerated even 200c well, and didn't know when to wait and watch.

I do think that Calc-C is the correct remedy for him, and he has said the same. I think he simply took too much.
BeginningHomeopath last decade
Well, this is kind of strange.

If a person proves 6c of 'every' remedy, the 200c of the 'correct' remedy will cause worse aggravations.
Something here doesn't gel well.Maybe those potencies in the past were not 6c.

In ANY case , he has got more than enough Calcarea in his body. If the complaints keep relapsing, I think, there is some layer blocking the way, and Calcarea will be palliative, and too much repetition will cause more accessory symptoms.
sameervermani last decade
I am certain that the previous remedies were in 6c, as I saw them myself. They were given in single drops, and the patient had aggravations from most of them.

I checked with the patient who reports that Calc-C has had the most benificial effect. He wants to stay on the 6c. The patient has a variety of pimples on their face and body returning with the Calc-C.

I think you are right that the patient has more than enough Calc-c in their body. I will wait for some time and see what the response is.
BeginningHomeopath last decade
'If a person proves 6c of 'every' remedy, the 200c of the 'correct' remedy will cause worse aggravations.'

I think this is what happened here. I may have allowed him to increase the dose far too quickly. He took far too many doses because it was bringing relief.

I wonder if I should give another dose by olfaction to see if there is further relief.
BeginningHomeopath last decade
There is no need for any dose whatsoever for next 4 weeks.
sameervermani last decade
At that time do you suggest that I move this case to LMs so they can be repeated sooner?
BeginningHomeopath last decade
After waiting for 3-4 weeks, if the symptoms call for the same remedy and if there are no accessory symptoms left, yes.

Otherwise, No.
sameervermani last decade
This patient has responded and one old symptom has begun returning, the imagining and rehearsing of conversations.

There is only one remaining accessory symptom of the excess 200c dose of the remedy. Thought they still feel the intensity of the excess 200c doses.

Also, they are getting little bumps on the skin about the size of a drop of water. These appear a few at a time, are there for an hour or so and disappear permenantly. (Could this be some acute miasm being reinstated? Chicken pox?)

Also, several more of these little tiny permanent sycotic warts have reappeared. Two formed on the face.
BeginningHomeopath last decade
The cure is moving in the right direction, appearance of primary lesions along with return of old symptoms.

When nature has the matter firmly in its hands, we keep ours tied behind our backs.

Just wait and watch. Even if there is barely perceptible improvement happening, with centesimals, you must keep on waiting.
sameervermani last decade
Just one comment to make here. 15 years ago, this patient showed many signs of syphilis (Awake late at night as a child, obsessional interests, reading about rebellious subjects, very rebellious as a teenager, etc.). I think many of those symptoms faded with all of the wrong remedies given, as many of them are strong anti-syphilitic remedies. The patient expressed recently that they can't believe they had some of those interests as a child and teenager.

Feedback from patient, which I've assembled into the following categories:

Accessory symptoms and old symptoms
Trouble getting a full erection (started only after the many doses of 200c, first time this was ever encountered was when taking all the wrong remedies)
Is staying awake until 6am every morning and sleeping until 4pm. Cannot get to sleep until sunrise. (this began on all the wrong remedies given by the previous homeopaths, but was always a night owl, but rarely this bad.)
Frequent urination. (a symptom from several different times before)
Patient reports eating almost nothing for several days.

Good Changes
Has walked 2 miles per day for ten years. Is no longer walking at all.
Has always sleeped laying to one side or the other. Now feels a desire to sleep and rest on stomach.

Some symptoms have started returning.
For last few days has begun rehearsing conversations again.
BeginningHomeopath last decade
Also reports a lessening in craving and consumption of sodas.
BeginningHomeopath last decade

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