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Arthritis in my dogs - question

Hello, I am looking for a remedy for my two elderly dogs. Both have arthritis.

Dog A is 12 years old, very thin, chills easily, restless at night, scares easily. He loves to lie in the hot sun and hates the rain. He craves constant physical closeness with us but is not as affectionate as Dog B. He appears to have shoulder pain but none in the hips.

Dog B is 13, she is thin as well, but seems to prefer the cool, dry weather. She is affectionate but does not want to lie next to us as does Dog A. She is a retired racing greyhound, so I think some of her arthritis is from her racing career. All 4 ball joints seem to hurt her (hips especially, and she now walks kind of crouched down in the hips), as well as her C1 vertebra.

I read about Calcarea phos or Rhus tox for possibilities for Dog A and Pulsatilla for Dog B but not all of the symptoms seem to fit. Of course, it's difficult to judge when your dog can't tell you how his pain feels.

If anyone can offer suggestions and dosages I would be most grateful.

Thank you!
Debra
 
  beepsandclicks on 2009-09-18
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Dog A
please give Rhus Tox 30c thrice a day at a gap of 4 hours for 3 days.

Dog B
please give Arnica 30c thrice a day at a gap of 4 hours for 3 days.

please observe change in their symptoms and report back after 10 days.
 
kadwa last decade
Thank you. I really appreciate it. I will report back in 10 days.

Debra
 
beepsandclicks last decade
Kadwa,

Thank you for your help. It has been 10 days, they both seem to feel better. Still some occasional limping as before with Dog A but he seems to FEEL better, so that is great.

Dog A also seems more cheerful. Her physical symptoms remain (wobbly hips upon arising, slipping on wood floors), but I am pleased that she seems to feel better.

Do you suggest anything else or repeating this treatment at any point? Or will this one treatment do the trick?

Thanks very much for your expertise.

Debra
 
beepsandclicks last decade
Sorry, I meant to say Dog B also seems better, but still wobbly in the hips, etc.

Thanks!
 
beepsandclicks last decade
Calcera Carbonica 6c

Dose:
Liquid 2-3 drops in tsp water or follow dose on pellets.

Frequency:
3 times day for 3 days if improved change to one dose at night before sleep for 5 days. If improved; Calcera Carbonica 200c weekly for 3 months if still improved. Dose 200c again if needed and note frequency. When lasts more than 3 months switch to 1m every 6 months.

Dose same all potencies.

Arnica for conditional pain in 30x. Rhus Tox works as well.

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
As an aside:
r.e. Calcera Carbonica for arthritis in canine (above post on 2014-06-01)

I was prescribed this by a holistic vet and am having success for abouth 9 months now. Patient is an overweight 12 year old lab. She still has some pain after a 30 min walk but at 12+ that is not bad! The calc cured other problems like eating dirt, loose stool etc.

The patient must fit the profile for calc or it may not work (according to my research).

Don't mix with bryona.

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
The daily calcarb 6c worked at first and is now nearly ineffective.

I just administered calcarb 30c wet: within 15 min no leg shaking, no panting and an effortless walk 4 hours later-wow. I will wait and see how long this holds for a dosing schedule.

Staying with what works works. Thanks Mr. H.

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
There must be aggravation before there is improvement, if you are going to get genuine cure (as much as can be expected in someone that old of course). If there is no aggravation first, then it is likely just palliation. Palliation is sometimes all you can do, admittedly, in advanced cases of pathology, but it can also turn into suppression which is dangerous.

There are hundreds of known remedies for arthritis, she may need any one of them.
 
Evocationer 5 years ago
Hi Evocationer,

Thanks for replying with your expertise. I am seeing a
local Homeopathic veterenarian who recommended calc. In fact, I wanted to try rhus or arnica but he wants me to stay with calc only.

I have been witnessing aggrivation for about 10 days now and we decided to up the potency to 30c. The improvement is unmistakeable.

Can you be more specific? What is palliation. Please teach me.

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
Palliation is where the symptoms suddenly, even dramatically lift, but the underlying cause has not been cured. This can be seen when ANY dose does not first create a worsening of the symptom, perhaps even the appearance of several minor new symptoms. Palliation must be maintained by frequent, if not constant dosing, and tends to become ineffective after a period of time. The symptoms will usually return in the same way that they had originally appeared.

If the symptoms are actually worse than they were, then what has happened is suppression is taking place, where the outward expression of the internal disease is being blocked by the medicine. This causes the internal disease to actually become stronger, since our symptoms are actually a vent to relieve that internal pressure. Over time, if suppression goes on long enough, or in very sensitive patients, the internal disease will begin to spill into other organs or aspects of the patient.

In a case of long-standing physical pathology, especially in those of low vitality (the old in this case), aggravation may last days, sometimes even weeks, before improvement is seen. Dosing and potency can be adjusted to moderate this of course, and low potency is best for this, or the LM potency range.

I am always cautious when a patient dramatically improves without any worsening of symptoms. What happens next will probably reveal exactly what has happened to her. I am not saying the remedy is wrong necessarily, I have no case to judge it on, but one always needs to be aware of this possibility.
[message edited by Evocationer on Sat, 14 Jun 2014 00:35:15 BST]
 
Evocationer 5 years ago
Thanks for replying. I understand and agree with you. My practitioner is directing me to do this? I was giving patient daily wet doses of carc 6c. When I saw initial improvement diminish over time I contacted him and he told me to stay with the daily dosage. I have been researching homeopathy and I should see initial worsening of symtoms; I did not.

Will you take this case please please please :).

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
I just took Shasta on another walk and she is still very mobile with more energy; like earlier today.

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
The dog is starting to show previous symtoms again: leg shaking, instability etc.

I believe this is good and is aggravation. I will wait and hope for improvement over the next few days to see if the medicine will take hold.

If worsens or no improvement (same as before) either wrong meds or increase to 200c or 1m. If worsens and new symtoms I would change meds. If same as before, I would to up to 200c and wait.

Any suggestions appreciated?

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
Aggravation comes first, NOT after amelioration. It is usually palliation when you see that happening. This is probably NOT a good sign. Continued palliation will cause suppression, and suppression in a patient who is old can cause a fatal decline or make them incurable. You really need to be careful now - very careful. Very vital patients can usually survive this but I worry for someone so old.

You should also not be using such high potencies. For this kind of situation, you should be using potencies like 6c, 12c, perhaps 30c if the case displays a number of peculiar symptoms of the specific remedy. High potencies are for high vitality patients, with little tissue change, showing mostly just functional symptoms. High potencies given to low vitality patients can kill them, or drive their illness directly to an important organ (which is often the heart in arthritis).
 
Evocationer 5 years ago
Hi Evocationer,

Thanks for the information. At this point She is doing so good I am going to wait at least 2 weeks before doing anything unless problems crop up.

Thanks for telling me about the age issues and avoiding high potencies.

You mentioned other arthritis remedies that might be more appropriate. Could you suggest something.

Thanks for your help. You and Fitness have been great.

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
We don't have arthritis remedies as such. Every one of our remedies can cure arthritis, if the 'strange, rare and peculiar' symptoms are covered by it. It is harder with animals to use important parts of our remedy pictures (mental/emotional) since they cannot express those directly. But often such cases can be treated like very young children who also cannot speak.

The whole case needs to be taken - I find using a questionnaire designed for children can be useful. Of course some of these questions will be not appropriate so you can avoid those. When talking about relationships, you would include other animals as well as people.

Describe each physical complaint/associated set of symptoms in detail. Please include the following when doing this:

1. Appearance
2. Sensation or pain
3. Situations/events/triggers for making it worse
4. Situations/events/triggers for making it better
5. Event that seemed to start the complaint
6. Other sensory features – smell, sound, taste, tactile etc

Make sure each complaint is done separately. Do not group them together. This is for physical complaints/diseases.


MENTAL STATE OF THE CHILD (IMPORTANT)

1. When the physical complaint is active, what is his/her emotional state like? What does he/she do? What does she/he want you to do?

2. Does he/she describe any unusual sensation or pain in the body, especially when they are complaining of something?

3. What fears does he/she have? How does she/he react?

4. Was there any incident in the past that had a great impact? What happened at the time? Is there any ongoing reaction to this event? How does he/she talk about it?

5. Is there any story (book, fairytale, cartoon, movie etc) that seems to really resonate with her/him? What does he/she say about it?

6. What kind of fantasies does she/he describe to you? How does this translate down into play, games, toys? Does he/she tend to draw particular things over and over? If so what are they? If you point to these images, what does she/he say about them?

7. Does he/she describe any dreams or nightmares to you, and what are they? How does she/he react on waking from them?

8. How is he/she when interacting with other children? What about sports or games? How about obeying rules or social conventions?

9. How is she/he when interacting with older people? Is there any difference between family or friends and strangers in terms of reactions and behavior?

10. What kind of activities does he/she enjoy doing? Which of these do she/he spend the most time at?

11. What qualities seem to make your child different from other children?

12. How does your child cope with school, school work, study, deadlines, speaking in front of others, following directions etc?

13. What kind of questions does he/she tend to ask you or other adults?

14. What makes her/him laugh? What makes him/her cry?

15. What makes him/her angry or irritable?

16. What does your child do when alone?

17. Is there a particular person or type of person that he/she reacts to, and what kind of reaction?


GENERAL STATE OF YOUR CHILD

1. What position does he/she sleep in?
2. Is there any position he/she seems unable to sleep in?
3. Any unusual behavior during sleep?
4. Any problems with sleep?
5. What foods are craved (cravings are strong desires) What foods are hated?
6. What drinks are craved? What drinks are hated?
7. How does he/she react when hungry, or hunger is prolonged?
8. How does the weather affect?
9. How does the temperature affect?
10. Are there any other environmental influences negative or positive (season, noise, music, moon, light, dark, day, night, time, smells etc.)
11. Problems with stool or bowel habit?
Problems with urine or bladder habit?
12. Where does he/she sweat most? Does it stain or smell unusual?
 
Evocationer 5 years ago
1. Appearance: 12.5 year old Chocolate Lab, 78 lbs, large english breed, huge head. shiny healthly coat nearly perfect.

2. Sensation or pain: Pants while leg shakes.

3. Situations/events/triggers for making it worse: after walking.

4. Situations/events/triggers for making it better: During walking and at rest.
5. Event that seemed to start the complaint: limping.

6. Other sensory features – smell, sound, taste, tactile etc: ?

Make sure each complaint is done separately. Do not group them together. This is for physical complaints/diseases.


MENTAL STATE OF THE CHILD (IMPORTANT)

1. When the physical complaint is active, what is his/her emotional state like? What does he/she do? What does she/he want you to do? NA

2. Does he/she describe any unusual sensation or pain in the body, especially when they are complaining of something? NA

3. What fears does he/she have? How does she/he react?: She is teritorial; the alpha of 2 other dogs.

4. Was there any incident in the past that had a great impact? What happened at the time? Is there any ongoing reaction to this event? How does he/she talk about it? NA

5. Is there any story (book, fairytale, cartoon, movie etc) that seems to really resonate with her/him? What does he/she say about it?NA

6. What kind of fantasies does she/he describe to you? How does this translate down into play, games, toys? Does he/she tend to draw particular things over and over? If so what are they? If you point to these images, what does she/he say about them? NA

7. Does he/she describe any dreams or nightmares to you, and what are they? How does she/he react on waking from them? NA

8. How is he/she when interacting with other children? What about sports or games? How about obeying rules or social conventions?: She is very well behaved.

9. How is she/he when interacting with older people? Is there any difference between family or friends and strangers in terms of reactions and behavior? Friendly with everyone; rolls over on her back.

10. What kind of activities does he/she enjoy doing? Which of these do she/he spend the most time at? Walking.

11. What qualities seem to make your child different from other children? NA

12. How does your child cope with school, school work, study, deadlines, speaking in front of others, following directions etc? NA

13. What kind of questions does he/she tend to ask you or other adults? NA

14. What makes her/him laugh? What makes him/her cry? NA

15. What makes him/her angry or irritable? NA

16. What does your child do when alone? Sleep.

17. Is there a particular person or type of person that he/she reacts to, and what kind of reaction?
Always positive to people and usually to other animals unless animal is on her turf.

GENERAL STATE OF YOUR CHILD

1. What position does he/she sleep in? Between my wife and I.
2. Is there any position he/she seems unable to sleep in? No
3. Any unusual behavior during sleep? NO
4. Any problems with sleep? NO
5. What foods are craved (cravings are strong desires) What foods are hated? Eats anything. We feed meat and vegetables and bone supplements.
6. What drinks are craved? What drinks are hated? NA
7. How does he/she react when hungry, or hunger is prolonged? Begs
8. How does the weather affect? No problems at all.
9. How does the temperature affect? Likes cold weather.
10. Are there any other environmental influences negative or positive (season, noise, music, moon, light, dark, day, night, time, smells etc.) NO
11. Problems with stool or bowel habit? NO
Problems with urine or bladder habit? NO
12. Where does he/she sweat most? Does it stain or smell unusual?NA

Thanks Evocationer

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
A couple more things I did not see on form.

1. She has a small synovitis protruding from her left knee and she favors that leg.

2. Before the calc she ate dirt. After taking the calc 6c she stopped.

3. After the calc 30c she was better right away then some aggrivaton at 20 hours then better again. We just walked and she had very little pain. This is day 3 since calc 30c.

Thanks again.

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
She has no personality you can describe? My experience is that animals have character quirks just like people do. While they can't tell us exactly what they are feeling, you can often describe their behaviour and what your impression of them is.

If you replace 'child' with 'dog' those questions might make more sense to you (for example 'what makes your dog different from other dogs' and so on)

Is the leg shaking and limping the only health problems she has? Nothing else at all, even at her age? What about history of diseases or problems?
 
Evocationer 5 years ago
Ok interesting, that might not suggest palliation, since improvement has followed aggravation. Well keep us informed on progress. My advice was for the observation of improvement happening without any aggravation first, so you may be right about it being a homoeopathic aggravation.
 
Evocationer 5 years ago
Hi Evocationer.

She is the alpha of 2 other dogs. She is very protective of my wife and I. She will even growl and chase off the other dogs or strange dogs if they come close to me or my wife; but only inside where we normally sit. Outside she is accepting of just about anything. loud noises do not bother her. The other dogs freak out and bark. Shasta will join in after awile but does not initiate the barking when people walk by the house for example. She is very affectionate to all humans. She lets me trim her nails and brush her teeth with some resistance but not as much as the other 6 dogs I have had. She is submissive. Obeys every command and is eager to please.
Sleep: she dreams every time she sleeps for more than a moment. The legs move as if she is running. She dreams early in the morning and really moves her legs enough to wake me. I let her sleep and finish the dream :). She sleeps deep and often; just like a dog.

The leg shaking is accompanied by a left knee synovitis; it is small and has reduced in size since the calc. She also ate dirt before taking the calc she stopped right away.

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
Thanks Evocationer.

I will observe her and report any problems before I give her anything else.

Thanks for helping.

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago
Update: Dog received daily doses of calc 6c with effect diminishing after 1 month.
The dog experienced immediate wellness then aggravation following a dose of calc 30c.
At day 7 the dog experienced diarrhea for 3 days. At day 10 dog greatly improved in all areas.
On 6/30/14 dog is eager to walk, has normal bowel movement and is happy.

Last dose of homeopathic meds was calc 30c on 6/13/14.

John
 
tahoejohn 5 years ago

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