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Can you overdose on Belladonna? 3

 

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Dose of belladonna

My son, 3.5 years old has always had restless sleep. I have narrowed down his medicine to belladonna.
He grinds his teeth at night, tosses and turns, screams for mom (not always), sometimes sweats in the head at night. He also wets his bed in sleep, but never has an accident during the day. When I do give him the belladonna 200, it works like a charm, and he sleeps very soundly that night. I haven't noticed any changes in his night diaper tho. I've given it to him a stretch of 3 days, each night he sleeps well. But, when I stop giving it to him, it stops working and he's back to his restless pattern of sleep. ALthough he always wakes up refreshed and happy.
I tried a dose of calc carb 200, but didn't seem to do anything at all.
Any suggestions as to how many days to continue the belladonna? Or should i move onto another remedy?
Please suggest.
 
  karinamom on 2010-10-05
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
It is difficult to know if the remedy is correct but at the wrong potency, or if it is only a partial fit for your son.

How do you give the medicine to him - as liquid or pillules?

Do you succuss the bottle before each dose? (firm hits against the palm of the hand)

How many times have you used the remedy?

Are any of his symptoms unaffected by the Belladonna, or does he improve in all ways?

Has he developed any new symptoms while using the Belladonna?

Does the remedy have exactly the same effect whenever you use it?

Are any of his symptoms worsening as time goes on, again since using the Belladonna? (even if not directly connected to his sleep)

Have any of his symptoms disappeared since using the Belladonna? (even if not directly connected to his sleep)
 
brisbanehomoeopath 9 years ago
Medicine given in pillules. 3 pillules an hour before bed.
No i do not succuss the bottle.
I've used it 3 times, each for a period of 3-4 days, and then stopped.
He improves in his sleep pattern- very peaceful, no grinding, no tossing and turning, and no wakeups in the middle of the night. His behaviour during the day also has improved, less stubborn, more accepting, and less anger. Also, he used to go urinate frequently in the day, with a rush to the bathroom if he felt the urge, even if there wasn't that much urine. That too has improved with the medicine.

Symptoms not improved: bedwetting still continues regardless of medicine.

When i stop the medicine, (after the period of 3-4 days) the only pattern that returns is the grinding of the teeth, and the restless sleep. The frequency of urinating in the day and behaviour has all improved- that seems to be permanent thus far.

No new symptoms have developed.

Yes seems to have exactly the same effect every time i've used it.

OH! He used to be constipated for a very long time, since i started the belladonna, that doesn't seem to be an issue at all. Normal bowel movement, not much straining.

Thank you so much!!
 
karinamom 9 years ago
I forgot to mention, before giving him the belladonna i noticed he slept (pretty much every night) on his back, with his knees pulled up, and his hands above his head. I thought this suited puls so i tried puls before, and whether it was the wrong potency or not, it seemed to not have much of an effect on him.
After the bell, the sleep position changed to on the side, or on the abdomen.

Reading a bit on tuberculinum, and wondering if a dose of that follows next- for the bedwetting, the grinding of teeth, and tossing and turning in sleep. His character is stubborn at times, but sometimes very yielding if given a lot of attention. ALWAYS craves attention. Cannot play by himself.

Hope you can help out here.
 
karinamom 9 years ago
alright from that report, there is no specific reason to think tht Belladonna might not work quite well for your child. There are a few things you need to do in order to increase the efficiency of the medicine.

The first thing, is to make the medicine a Wet dose rather than a Dry dose. Dry doses are not very useful for ongoing management and cure of chronic conditions. You need to get a bottle with a dropper, dissolve just 2 of those pillules into a mixture of water and alcohol (5:1, alcohol such as brandy or vodka will do), allow them to dissolve, and this will be the stock bottle from which you will make the dose.

Then, succuss the bottle twice before placing 1 drop in 1/4 cup (62mls) of water, stir thoroughly and give 1 teaspoon to your child.

This is the method of dosing that Hahnemann detailed in his later editions of the Organon, and Luc Du Schepper has discussed in his book 'Achieving and Maintaining the Simillimum'. Since adopting that method I have seen much better results with my prescriptions.

I also find that children generally do better on 1M than either 30 or 200c and it is possible that you will need to move up to this potency. I also find that if a remedy is only partially right, moving up in potency will reveal that (it won't work as well, or at all).

If a remedy is only palliative (smooths the symptoms over without curing the source) it usually becomes less effective the more you use it. If the remedy was acting suppressively (driving the disease deeper in) you would be seeing new symptoms appearing often worse than the original. The fact that he is generally better implies that the medicine is in fact a good one, so the goal at this point would be to find ways to make it more effective.
 
brisbanehomoeopath 9 years ago
The reason why i was asking if another remedy would be needed now was because this time, on day 4 of belladonna, there was no effect, he was tossing and turning and woke up once in the middle of the night, moaning.
Also, it has zero effect on the bedwetting. I was hoping for a remedy to help that aspect as well.
 
karinamom 9 years ago
A remedy will stop working if you keep using the dry dose. You must change to using a wet dose to get further progress. Very often the correct remedy is changed because the manner of dosing is not correct. This must be attempted before moving on to a new remedy.

Bedwetting is a long term problem that does not ever clear up in a few days. Only over a period of time of treatement with the right remedy will this change (from experience in clinic).

It is possible that the bedwetting might not be cured with this remedy, but once started, you need to exhaust the possibility before moving on.
 
brisbanehomoeopath 9 years ago
I know that with all the remedies at our disposal, it is a great temptation to just keep trying new ones. However it is often one of the first mistakes that new (and sometimes old) homoeopaths make. If there is ANY marked improvement especially in the generals or mentals you should attempt to pursue the effect of the medicine as far as it will go.

One of the things that allows a practitioner to do that is confidence in their prescription. Confidence comes from understanding the materia medica and philosophy, and from experience in clinical situations. When a practitioner doesn't have these things you will often see rapid change of remedies with no logic to it.

So while I can't know for sure that you chose the remedy for all the right reasons, if I had this result in clinic with one of my own patients I would be doing the things I have suggested. You may have very well made exactly the right choice. It would be a shame to be on the right remedy but lose that.
 
brisbanehomoeopath 9 years ago
Ok, sorry I haven't replied. I ended up choosing to give him one dose of tuberculinum 200. The reason is the following:
On day 4 of giving him the bell, it had no effect, he went back to grinding his teeth. Upon further reading,
i realized his personality fit the tuberculinum picture better.
Sleep: tosses and turns, grinds teeth voraciously
Upon focusing on activities, he can't focus on a task for very long, always shifting from task to task.
His personality: He can be the most kind hearted soul, yet sometimes, he can also become rude, and outright mean. Will say phrases, like 'Don't talk to me, I don't like you'... without apparent cause.
He has a line of hair down his spine. He's got bright eyes, has a very good appetite- loves to eat meat, but doesn't gain too much weight, he's thin and tall. Long eyelashes.
He used to have temper tantrums of kicking and screaming, but as a parent, i used to ignore that. Now he's more verbal.
When parents are talking, will get in your face so you talk to him. VERY obstinate.

So it's been a few days that he just took that one dose, here are the changes.
SLeep very very peaceful. Barely even moves. Does not shriek in the middle of the night, and the grinding stopped. ( I know, because i have another little one who wakes me up, so i keep checking on his grinding).

Behavior in the day: very cooperative. Stopped using 'potty words'. Played by himself for a while today. Listened and obeyed to do some chores. Had a very good day, didn't raise his voice at all.

Other signs that have cropped up since the tuberculinum. A stuffy nose, and a cough that comes on only in the morning upon rising. QUickly fades away. His nose is very stuffy. He hasnt' complained much about his nose.

Symptom that doesn't seem to have been affected by the medicine is his constipation- he did not have a bowel movement yesterday, and had one today- round balls. Seems to be that of Plumbum.

I haven't given him anything else, have been just observing him. SHould i continue to wait and let the medicine act?

I respect your opinion about the belladonna, and would have listened, it's just his character seemed to point TUB quite strongly, and i felt i needed to try it.

Please let me know what i should do now.

Also, I really would like a constitutional remedy for myself and my daughter - one year and a half. I feel she would respond to medhorrinum, but would like your input on that.

Thanks again.
 
karinamom 9 years ago
I forgot to mention, before giving him the tuberculinum, the last thought in his head before falling asleep was: Are there any monsters? ALmost everyday, and we had to go thru a small conversation to make him feel safer.
As soon as i gave him the TUB, the fear changed, now every night it's 'What if i get lost and you can't find me?'. Suddenly no more monsters, and this is the last thought. I give him a quick reply, to which he accepts, and quietly goes off to sleep.

The sleep position also changed. Going from sleeping on the back with knees pulled up, he's now sleeping on his sides.

He loves going out, loves car rides, loves going to new places and new adventures. Very social. But now, the last few days, he's been more polite with strangers.

I also forgot to mention that he is still waking up with a wet, very full, diaper, even tho he doesn't have much liquid before bed.

OOH, one another thing. HE normally loves milk. Today, he even refused his favorite- milk with chocolate syrup, and yesterday refused an offer for icecream. That definitely was strange, since he loves milk, icecream, eggs & meat.
 
karinamom 9 years ago
Belladonna and Tuberculinum can seem quite similar on the surface, and in some instances might complement or be interchangeable. All of those symptoms (not the physical appearance) could be either remedy, so according to similarity either medicine might be helpful.

The underlying state of Belladonna is more to do with Fear, if not outright terror. Belladonna aggression always seems to be coupled to terror. Belladonn's fear is of people at its base, unlike its sister remedy Stramonium which fears animals (Stramonium fears animals who act like people, Belladonna fears people who act like animals - it is a fine distinction that can be difficult to see especially in children). Belladonna acts aggressively out of fear, and their dreams are often full of violence, monsters, soldiers, blood.

Tuberculinum fears routine, stillness, rules, ordinariness. Tub-bov cannot bear to be restrained or restricted in anyway. They love being free, independent, unfettered. They are strongly disatisfied with everything as it is and want to change things constantly. This makes them seem very restless. Tub children are a nightmare to discipline, because rules are so suffocating to them. Their aggression is coupled to this fear of rules and restriction.

Medhorrhinum has huge Anticipatory fears - what might happen or can happen terrifies them. They are always anticipating trouble or danger. Coupled to this is extreme behavior, typically one extreme to the other.Medhorrhinum are real panickers, and they can go from happy and calm to totally freaked out in an instant. Medorrhinum aggression is connected to a lack of control, and everything is bigger and more dramatic when a medorrhinum child does it.

A new symptom developing after remedy shows it is not a completely perfect fit. This is not unknown in practice and unless it remains it usually is not a problem.
 
brisbanehomoeopath 9 years ago
He's extremely social, so definitely no fear of people has ever been there. Even when he was 8 months old, he never went through any separation anxiety, readily went to anyone. He doesn't like to be restrained, loves the outdoors where he can run wild. He will readily run far away from me without care as to where i am. That is why i felt it so odd that 'new fear' cropping up.
He never listened much if given instruction until yesterday, where he was very willing to help clear up. At home he is usually spending his time bouncing off from couch to couch, and my home being a small one, i feel suffocates him to an extent.


Last night again he seemed very peaceful while sleeping so I'm choosing the route of waiting for the tuberculinum to do it's thing.

As for my baby here is the scenario:
As an infant, she was born with 'snuffles', had trouble sleeping on her back, so I would Prop her on her side, and she would sleep better that way. She had sticky eyes (would wake up with lids shut, and crusts around). She had this going on until well past a year old.
Her colds go to the ear very quickly, with puls helping that, but it quickly then drops into the chest, giving her a cough that troubles her while sleeping.
She's not a stranger person at all. Up until recently, she would cry if an unknown person so much as looked and spoke to her. Now, she'll smile and wave, but will still cling onto me.
She's a slow teether, 18 months, and has just about half of her teeth.
Her gums swell up before a tooth cuts.
She was a late walker- 16 months started to walk.
She has a good appetite, eats well- loves fruits, and vegetables, and eggs, and chicken, and sweets, cakes, and icecream. She'll eat chicken if it's soft enough. But she's shorter and thinner than children her same age. Her pediatrician calls her 'petite' and says she'll always be that way.

She is still breastfed, but I'm slowly weaning her. She takes feeds before bed at night, and THRU the night, constantly waking up sometimes every hour to nurse.
She sleeps best on her abdomen, with her bum sticking up in the air. Will not be covered with a blanket at all, and will get upset when i try covering her. Her ideal is to run around naked which she loves.
She loves the outdoors, will run wild like her brother.

Likes new surroundings a lot. Loves the car ride.
She takes one nap in the afternoon about an hour long, and then doesn't sleep around 9:30 and wakes up at around 8 am.

My main concern for her is her immune system which she seems to catch colds quickly. AND HER SLEEP, which is driving me a bit crazy. She wakes up a lot sometimes 3-4 times a night, will sit up on her bed calling for me and milk.
Weaning her thru the day has been easy, she's taken to whole milk and will have that instead and not bother much about my milk. BUt night has been really hard.

I feel Med can help her out, but I don't know the potency and I'm not 100% sure either. Your thoughts please?
 
karinamom 9 years ago
What symptoms are you basing a Medorrhinum prescription on? We can help you to verify a choice if we know how you made it.
 
brisbanehomoeopath 9 years ago
-The sleep position being that on the abdomen, with bum sticking up in the air.
-Thirst at night
-sticky eyes which was a problem for a long while
-cough worse lying down
-extreme introversion (crying when a stranger even looked at her)
-if she doesn't get her way, she will resort to biting or pinching, even to the extent of biting herself
-loves fruit, and loves fruit juice, apple and orange juice. Loves vegetables, and fish
-she finds it difficult to fall asleep until late.. 9:30-10:00, with a very restless sleep, especially until 3 am (this is why I'm confused, could the acute be arsenic?)
-always hot, doesn't want jackets, doesn't want a blanket when sleeping
-frequent colds, chest colds, with thick yellow mucus
-i have oily skin and hair, but haven't noticed her skin, hers seems normal for a baby
-mom had severe cramping with menses prior to having children, almost labor like pains
-bowel movements are not constipated tho, in fact, very much regular
-big appetite- but still short and thin
-wakes up cranky, like she's still tired
 
karinamom 9 years ago
you still around?
 
karinamom 9 years ago
I can give you some other ideas from those symptoms, but my process of taking a child's case is quite different. I rely heavily on the state of the mother during pregnancy, and I may even use the father's state when attempting to understand the child's state.

This is a case I published online that gives an example of using the father's state:-

http://forums.hpathy.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11610&KW=&a...

This is a case where I used the mother's state in pregnancy:

http://forums.hpathy.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11619&KW=&a...

I assume you are looking at the sleep position as being the most indicitive symptom (leading to Med)?

In the later repertories remedies listed for Sleep, Position, Knees, face forced into pillow:

Calc-p, Carc, cina, con, eup-per, euphr, Lyc, MED, Phos, Sep, Tub, zinc

Some symptoms aren't defined well enough to be useful:

Sticky eyes
Frequent colds
Mother's state before pregnancy

The observation of introversion seems too subjective. They symptom is Weeping when looked at + Strangers aggravate (or fear of, depends on what the exact reaction is).

If one does a simple repertory analysis, the remedies that then come up most prominently are :

Ars
Lyc
Thuja
Ant-t

However without having a lot more information I wouldn't know where to go to from there. Perhaps that is helpful to you though?
 
brisbanehomoeopath 9 years ago
Just based on a very quick look at this case, I think you are very far off from the correct remedy. A few of the symptoms that you mention for Med. are symptoms of the figwart miasm itself.

The problem is that Belladonna isn't curative of the figwart miasm, nor is it a significant anti-miasmatic remedy. It doesn't look like Bell, Tub. or Med. is appropriate at all.

I agree with brisbanehomoeopath that you should study the case and be sure of the remedy. Also his description of the liquid dose is how homeopathic remedies are used.

I'd start with presenting the case fresh, focusing on physical symptoms.

+


Patient ID: Sex: Age: Nature of work: Habits:


Please answer the following questions in a descriptive manner after careful analysis and recollection of previous experiences and happenings.

1. Describe your main suffering?

2. What other physical sufferings do you have in your body?

3. What mental sufferings / feelings do you have associated with your physical sufferings?

4. What exactly do you feel when you are at your worst? Describe the sensation in your own words.

5. When did it all start? Can you connect it to any past event or disease?

6. Which time of the day you are worst?

7. What are the things which aggravate your suffering and which are those which ameliorate the same? Example- time, temperature, pressure, rubbing, washing, eating, tight clothing etc.


8. Do your think your sufferings have relation to any external stimuli (like, change of place) or any internal biological changes in the body, like, menses (in females)?

9. When do you feel better, during hot weather or cold weather, humid or dry weather?

10. Describe your general mental set up? Are you Moody, Arrogant, Mild, Agreeable Changeable, Nervous, Suspicious, Easily offended, Quiet, Arguing, Irritating, Lazy etc.

- How do you feel before or during a thunderstorm?

- Do you like being consoled during your tough times?
- Are you sensitive to external stimuli like smell, noise, light etc?

- Do you have any typical habit or gesture like nail biting, causeless
Weeping, talking to one self etc?

- How do you feel about your friends, family, your children and especially your husband / wife?

11. What are your fears and do you dream of any situation repeatedly?


12. What do you crave for in food items and what are your aversions?

13. How is your thirst: Less, Normal or Excessive?

14. How is your hunger: Less, Normal or Excessive?

15. Is there any kind of food which your body can’t stand?

16. Is your sweat normal or less or more? Where does it sweat more: Head, Trunk or Limbs?

17. How is your bowel movement and stool type?

18. How well do you sleep? Do you have a particular posture of sleeping?

20. Do you have any strange, peculiar or unusual symptom or feelings? How are you different from others?

21. What medications have been taken earlier by you to treat the diseases and do you have any particular symptom surfacing after the medication?

22. What major diseases are running in your family?

23. Describe, how do you look like? Describe your overall appearance.

25. What major diseases have you had in your life and when. Please write them in a chronological manner.
 
Homeopathy International 1 9 years ago
Ok, just to make it clear i was talking about two different cases. The first scenario mentioned was my son- 3 and a half years old- main problem was the teeth grinding, and other problems- aggressive behavior and just plain not listening to instruction. I gave him one dose tub- and he has been responding since. No more grinding, and no more aggression, very cooperative and is helping around the house. Should I repeat the dose at any point? Or continue waiting it out? I gave him one dose tub 200C (two pellets).

As for my 18 month old daughter- yes- the main indication for Med was the sleep position, the lack of wanting to be covered, and her food cravings which seemed to fit.
But here is my state during her pregnancy:

My son has always been difficult, so I was hesitant in planning for a second. Nevertheless, my husband and i both decided that my son needed a sibling, so i felt obliged. The following month i was already late for my menses. Was not feeling myself. I was a week late when I took a toss, face forward, stomach hit the ground. I didn't move, for fear to see the blood.. fear that i had miscarried (even tho I had not yet confirmed a pregnancy). I waited for someone to come and assist, i was shaking, shocked, no blood. Came home with only a scraped knee. That day i took a preg test, and got relieved that it was negative. But a few days passed, and i was still not feeling myself. So took another pregnancy test, and it was positive. Altho i was pleased at the result, i was anxious and very stressed out, that the fall had affected the baby in some way. I had a midwife who kept assuring me that the baby was doing fine, but deep inside, i had a lot of worry. But i was energetic, and tried to stay positive. I was overall happy and didn't have much aches and pains.
I didn't eat much, because i suffered with nausea through the pregnancy. Didn't throw up much (maybe like 3-4 times total), but gagged ALOT.
I gained adequate weight. Delivered at my 40th week. Ended up having a very natural birth- no epidural. Labored a lot at home, went to the hospital, 2 hours later, she was born. 7 pounds.
As soon as she was born, i hemmorhaged, as i did with my first born. Unknown cause- no retained placenta. I almost fainted, so they gave me oxytocin, which did not work. Then they injected me with what they called ERGO (i don't know what that is). It stopped the bleeding.
Breastfeeding was very painful, my nipples became ulcerated, almost burnt, like skin became black and started peeling and bleeding every time. Nevertheless, i continued trying to nurse, and did so successfully, and still nursing, 18 months later.
She was a bit colicky, i remember her spitting up milk a couple of times but not that often- it was rare. But around evening time she would start crying and i had to dance around to console her. She was quick to console. Slept well as an infant, woke up one or twice in the night. (she wakes up more now).

My main concern is her sleep (which i feel she doesn't get enough of), and her immune system, she seems to get a cold frequently, which either gets into her ears, or down her chest.
She's small for her age. She eats well, likes pretty much everything- spicy, dairy, juicy, vegetables, fruits, chicken, fish. Likes everything, but eats enough, not little, not alot.
She's 18 months but understands everything- will follow instructions willingly. Very expressive.
Walked late- 16 months.
Teething late. Teeth take long to cut. As for strangers, it's fear. She's afraid of them. But it has become better, at 6 months, it was intense crying when someone looked at her. Now, she'll wave at them and smile, but not allow them to pick her up.

As for me the mother- these are my ongoing issues- bad allergies, lots of sneezing, not even sure what sets it. Sometimes it comes in the middle of the night, in sleep. Some days it's not there at all, some days, it lasts the whole day. Itchy eyes.- i rub them a lot.
Right ear plugged. Throat itchy. Before my pregnancies suffered with sever menstrual cramps- almost labor like- contractions, nausea. After the first born, no more cramping. Personality- likes cleanliness, organized, methodical, likes things done a certain way. After the second birth, i got this weird back ache, that only came in sleep. It would come when i tried to turn, and i physically had to get up and turn in bed, or get up and walk around (usually between 2 - 5 am). I took 3 doses of kali carb 30 (2 weeks apart), then one last dose of kali carb 200C. Haven't had that problem since.

I hope i've given more information here to get an accurate diagnosis.

Thanks so much.
 
karinamom 9 years ago

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