child with strep throat _{Page 2 of 3}

I agree with Joe here. Incidentally my doctor only prescribes antibiotics after taking a swab (except rarely in emergency while awaiting the swab) - when swabs are taken the bacteria is identified and also there is usually a lab 'test' done to find which antibiotic will treat this particular bacteria bug - this is obviously much more effective.

"allvis - where is the wild homeopathic treatment here, I do not understand?
Hepar Sulph is possible of course if the symptoms fit."
<<< Yes, you do not understand, thats why you ask these questions..simply as that.
May i be so "insolent", that i suggest, that you update your knowledge a bit, before you ask un-needed questions, in, "righteous anger", and prejudice?

Read organon, and read about hepar s.
Do also get som knowledge in pathology.

thank you allvis for your reply.
I am quite happy with my knowledge of all the areas you describe and update my knowledge regularly. My patients are also very happy with their treatment. I am very well acquainted with the organon - in my own and in its original language (may I say some of the translation faults are evident in some areas).
I did not say I did not understand hepar sulph - I meant I did not understand your comments. I also treat other homeopaths of all distinctions with respect and would hope for the same in return.

GM?

I agree with Joe and Erika also about the lab tests--I did suggest that in my replies, but used the term "Culture and Sensitivity" rather than "swab". I worked in a medical office and laboratory some years ago and that was the term used. I didn't mean to be confusingly jargonistic.

I would be inclined to get a "culture and sensitivity" type lab test at the start of an illness, not only before taking a prescription antibiotic, but even before things like goldenseal which has antibiotic qualities. Even if I were planning to use only homeopathy and other alternatives it is still nice to know what it is one is dealing with.

The "culture" part is where they grow in a culture medium (such as agar in a petri dish which you may have done yourself in school at some point), what they got on a swab--then the do tests on it, look under microscope at it etc. to determine what it is,

and the "sensitivity" part is where they test what antibiotic will actually kill the particular organism(s) that grew. That's where it would be determined that the organism is sensitive (not resistant) to penicillin (or whatever other antibiotic) so as not to give your son something that would not be effective anyway.

There are other tests though that can be done more quickly that give a sense of whether it is or isn't strep,with pretty decent accuracy, but without the sensitivity part. and that may be what your doctor did.


I am not sure though about the suggestion that your son would need 6 mos. of Penicillin, and am wondering if Joe could give a source for more information about that. My info indicates that 10 days of oral penicillin (or 1 big, or 3 small shots instead), would be current recommended practice here.

I was on long term antibiotic for supposed Lyme disease, and am convinced that the long course of antibiotic was ruinous to my health. So I'd be very very wary of that unless I knew it was very necessary and very likely to do something much more positive than the negative repurcussions.

In any case, unless your doc says not to, I'd suggest some acidophilus (yoghurt?), and or "probiotics" even before he ends the antibiotic course. I would think you could do astagalus tea now too, but slippery elm might be more soothing. I'm not sure of any particular reason to do astagulus after the antibiotic treatment is over. Seems to me it is more used as a first line of defense when exposure is possible--like whenever kids at school or friends are sick. ???

I just received a copy of Everybody's Guide to Homeopathic Medicines, by Stephen Cummings MD and Dana Ullman MPH. I looked up strep and found that it seems to come to almost the same conclusion about treating strep as I did by working my way through the incidence information in the Merck Manual.

This book suggests treating with antibiotic if the patient or someone in the patient's family has had RF, otherwise treating it homeopathically like any other sore throat even if a scarlet fever rash develops.

What I had read in Merck did not seem to indicate that a family member with RF made it more likely for a patient to get RF, but that may also be the case. Or it may be that it is an added zone of safety the authors felt should be used.

The book looks like a pretty good home reference to have around.

Possible remedies it gives for an acute sore throat situation, depending on the exact symptoms are: Belladona, Aconite, Arsenicum, Rhus Tox, Lycopodium, Mercurius, Hepar Sulph., Lachesis, Phytolacca, Sulphur.

That is aside from what you most will be trying to do which will be to figure out what constitutional homeopathic remedy he should be on to build him up after the current illness is over and the antibiotic gets cleared out.

I am tending toward a personal belief now in the truth of the theory that homeopathy does help to actually strengthen a person's own system and am thus tending to favor it not only over conventional drugs, but also in some cases over herbals. Though it depends on a case by case basis.

I'll probably continue to follow this thread as a reader, but will prob. not post on it anymore.

Best of wishes to you and your son for a speedy recovery from the current illness, and a road to a long and healthy life thereafter.

Erika..
"allvis - where is the wild homeopathic treatment here, I do not understand?
Hepar Sulph is possible of course if the symptoms fit."

Then this.."I did not say I did not understand Hepar Sulph - I meant I did not understand your comments. I also treat other homeopaths of all distinctions with respect and would hope for the same in return."

It is rather funny, that you call this respect.
And its rather funny, that you post in a manner that implye, that ive stated something negative, aimed at you..

Since your a socalled
homeopat,( your proclaiming, not mine),if find it very peculiar, that you dont know the difference of; General,(general terms), and particulars..
Tell me, do you find that compliant with the basic knowledge of homeopathy?
The basic demand, is that you recognise generals, and particulars.
No, my dear, i do not find you polite,i find you intriguing, incinuating.

PS (I misspoke already about not posting on this thread again!)

I was a little concerned with some thread comments about how badly MD's do things here in states, and the implication that they may not have correctly diagnosed strep. It is true that some do do things badly and may diagnose wrongly, but many others are excellent and have excellent judgement, experience and training.

In addition to lab tests, the doctor would have been looking at the "clinical" picture--that is, would have been looking at your son's condition. If your son had typical scarlet fever rash, an experienced doctor familiar with that would know just by looking at him, and would know that it was therefore streptococcus that is responsible. If there were a speedy confirmatory test, so much the better. At that point it was not unreasonable to start antibiotic if in consultation with the doctor (and again considering his "clinical" state, personal and family health history etc.) that was the course you chose to go this time.

Next time, if there is a next time, you may be all set and ready with your various homeopathics and may choose a different approach.... perhaps accepting a prescription for the antibiotic, but not filling it unless it is getting toward the week point without him getting better. Or perhaps something different, or, maybe, there will never be a next time, let us hope so!

Hi Maryo we must be posting at same time and my last one was written before I saw your reply to my last one.

My ed. of Cummings book (copyright 2004)on page 117 is in Mumps section. I'll look again at the strep section, I could have missed it.

Well, in mine it is p. 134-136, read again it is discussion that is more involved than just yes or no. Yes if RF history. Maybe yes if family is worried about RF which though rare still exists. Maybe yes if after several days but less than week of homeopathics, they have not worked. But also a note that studies have shown that in 30% of cases, oral penicillin did not eradicate the strep anyway. (You can prob. do a search inside the book feature at Amazon and see what the present edition is saying.)

They unquestionably can do C & S tests here in the states, but may not have done that for your son for various reasons, including that it is assumed what antibiotics will work on strep without necessarily checking.

Also they may have thought the herbs given could have led to misleading results etc.

"maybe, there will never be a next time, let us hope so!"that wont change, hopes dont helps, as long as people dont know why they get it, the amswer is simple, toothpaste has antibiotics in it, unknown to most, and that daily dose of antibi, changes your immunesystem, lowers it, by killing of friendly bacterias, bacerias that you have in the whole length of your intestial tract, from your mouth, and skin, till your rear ends outlet.
And at the same time, it vaxinates hrmfull bacterias, make them mutant, resistant of antibiotica.this is why there are few types of antibi that works when its danger, and their really needed..and why they all the time has to find new antibitypes that may work..
Just to repeat it, but this wont be welcomed , most probably, by certain people who find my sound information a treat to their practises...
Just speaking out of experience...
no offence..or is it??

and if it is strep, it is almost certainly Beta hemolitic--that is what form of strep commonly infects the throat, but your doctor should be able to tell you for sure.

Please use caution about whatever you do at same time as Zithromaz, it is far newer than penicillin. I guess there have been some questions raised about its effects on liver, and probably a lot simply is not known yet about how it might cross react with various herbs you might give him. I got a prescription suggested for Z-pak ( a form of Zithro) when I got wisdom teeth removed so looked into it briefly, but did not fill it so no actual personal experience there. Some of the ---mycin drugs action is blocked by dairy products, so you may not be able to do yoghurt either, tho I don't know about Zithro. Zithro should be a pretty short course of treatment, so you'll probably be ready to move on to whatever is next soon .

I hope you realize that my expression of hope that you never go through this again was meant by way of empathy and concern, and not to say, as Allvis seems to think was meant, that I think merely hoping will be curative. Though actually I do think thoughts can make a difference sometimes.

My hope is of course bec. as you say if this keeps repeating it would be a lot of antibiotic if you go the antibiotic route every time, and could run him down a lot even without a 6 month long course at one time.


Ciao.

No offense--I'm not a practioner, just a learner and myself using homeopathics to heal.

Allvis wrote, "the amswer is simple, toothpaste has antibiotics in it, unknown to most, and that daily dose of antibi, changes your immunesystem, lowers it,..."

So what should they have him brush his teeth with so as never to get strep again?

Are the Weleda homeopathic friendly toothpastes okay? Plain baking soda and water? Salt water? Or what do you recommend as a positive thing to use?

What you mention, should be ok, and what i posted, well, it was not aimed at you , but at they who attempt to make it sound, as i, had posted offensive.
Ive never done so, ive spoken in general terms, saying the same things as Hahnemann.

That certain individuals, has the need to feel, its them i speak of,(overblown ego?) and post in anger after that,.. well, is it really my problem, that they possibly have a bad conscience, if any at all?

Maybe some othermotives is behind this type of inciting, insinuating, intriguing?

Its clear that the aim is to run me off this board.

Ive found only one product besides this that maybe used,thats free of antibiotics, and thats oldfashioned toohtpowder, made after a very old recepy, contains only peppermint as a addative.

There are some products labeld as homeopatic tooth paste, i dont recomend that, its like dynamite instead of powder..if you understand me..even herbal products may give some people problems.

Allvis, I think it is just that people are having a hard time understanding what you are saying and then both sides get more upset than they ought to. I think for people like Erika this has got more to do with a language barrier between you, and for me and Maryo it has got more to do with that we are novices in homeopathy.

I thought by "wild" homeopathy you were referring to the Pulsatilla probably not being a right remedy for this child even though it seemed to help the asthma? could you clarify if this is or isn't so since it seems to be relevant to Maryo's most recent question about her son and what should she do now.

Please assume that I am an idiot--or at least very much a newcomer to this-- and that you have to explain in very full and clear detail what you mean as you answer or else it goes way over my head and maybe over Maryo's too.

Thanks!

Mine says 3rd edition.

Basically it says if there's a RF history to definitely use antibiotics, otherwise it goes into the complexity of the issue and kind of leaves it to the parent's judgement whether to use antibiotics or not. But since this is likely to come up again as an issue, it might be a good idea for you to give it (this edition's version) a read since I'm summarizing and oversimplifying a 3 page discussion.

I am glad that I was able to start an interesting discussion on the treatment of BHS.

My exposure to it was way back in the 70's when my son seemed to be constantly having sore throats which eventually had to be treated with a penicillin based antibiotic, in this case, Amoxyll 250gm taken 3 times daily. We observed that his throat infection would be cured after the first day on the antibiotic and he would of course continue for the usual 4-5 days on the drug. I was very concerned at the frequency of his infections and at my request the doctor had a throat swab taken and when it was cultured the bug was found to be the dreaded BHS. The ABS (antibiotic sensitivity test) indicated that the organism was most sensitive to Penicillin and he was given the drug which was continued for a long period on a daily basis, as far as I remember for 6 months. This was because the SGOT and another test which I think was SGPT showed that the bug was still present but dormant in his system. The long course of the antibiotic of about 6 months on Penicillin worked as subsequent tests showed that his blood tests did not indicate the presence of the bug.

I started investigating the reason why he was geting infected so frequently and discovered that his nanny was the carrier and from the time he was a toddler, she was constantly infecting him. She was still around to look after the younger brother and was continuing the process of infection down the line even when my second son was in his early teens. She too was eventually treated and was able to overcome her chronic problem.

In the case of your son, I believe that there is a chronic carrier among his classmates and in his interest and that of his classmates, I feel that the whole class should be tested by this simple throat swab and culture test which is non invasive and the results evaluated and treated.

I note that your doctor has used Zithromax which is an Azithromycin based drug. However this drug is not the specific for BHS as it is in the Erythromycin group to which BHS is only marginally sensitive.

My advice is that you wait for your son's next episode of a throat infection and then do the swab and culture and the ABS tests and take it from there. I would strongly suggest that you discuss this matter with the school authorities in the interest of all the students in his class and isolate the carrier.

Bodithse.
No, i was not referring to that, but to the fact that remedies is prescriben, but none do ever mention or, think of the causation, and that, that the causation has to be removed.
If not, a remedy is futile, as its only a pallative, the streps/disease will return in a harder manner..
And pulsatilla, when inhalers is used?
Doubtfull that pulsatilla do any good at all, since it may as well be a reaction to use of inhalers, or lesser use of it.
When allopathy and homeopathy is used to gehter, you dont know what works, or if the homeopatic remedie do shorterm , only relive bad effects from the allopatic medication.
Corticosteroids, do no good.
They change the hormonesystem, creates stress damage on organs, change the bodys chemistry..and create blocks, so well indicated remedies dont get to work.
The block created by cortisone, needs to be removed by phosporus, then the rigth remedie will work as it shall, and cure.
But, again, if the causation, ist taken into considderation, and taken care of, the historie will repeat it self, leaving the case more difficult to cure next time, if not render it impossible to cure.
It is, this senselees way of prescribing,in where Hahnemanns recomendations isnt follwed, where there is a blind allopathic belive in miracles ,"IF ONLY YOU THAT THIS REMEDIE, YOU GET WELL FORVER ", DELUSION, i find wild,disgusting, a irresponbinsible, uneducated guessing..
AND THATS GENERALLY SPEAKING, NOT PERSONALLY AIMED OR PARTICULARY , NOT AIMING A CROSSHAIR AT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR.
Thanks for the attention.

Okay -- idea of a carrier makes a lot of sense. Prob. a classmate, but could be someone else.

Meanwhile, what about now? The boy is having asthma problems,should he or shouldnt he take Puls. now?

And what should he do after the Zithromaz? That is, esp. in terms of improving his own constitional state so as to be less susceptible--and perhaps so as to throw off any lingering infection without need for half a year--or however long-- of antibiotic?

OK let me see if I understand and follow you better this time. I'll mark my replies with %%%

No, i was not referring to that, but to the fact that remedies is prescriben, but none do ever mention or, think of the causation, and that, that the causation has to be removed.

%%%% do you mean the germ side of the causation or the constitutional susceptibility side of the causation? Joe is clearly looking to try to identify the germ part and deal with that in his post. And you brought up the problem of antibiotic in the toothpaste.

%%%%I think the mom very much wants him to be off the inhaler and the antibiotics. But she needs help figuring out how to do that. She is getting a lot of information and conflicting ideas about what to do.

%%%%What is your exact suggestion to accomplish that goal and get him well?

If not, a remedy is futile, as its only a pallative, the streps/disease will return in a harder manner..

%%%%then it would seem to me that the thing to do is to try to help the mom figure out whether pulsatilla is or is not his constitutional remedy as soon as possible and get him onto that or whatever his constitutional remedy is--and to try to keep him off all the antibiotics and cortisone. Can you help her (along with Erika and Joe) to figure out what is this boy's right remedy? And to help her to know what to do if he has acute attacks of asthma or sore throat in the meantime?

And pulsatilla, when inhalers is used?
Doubtfull that pulsatilla do any good at all, since it may as well be a reaction to use of inhalers, or lesser use of it.
When allopathy and homeopathy is used to gehter, you dont know what works, or if the homeopatic remedie do shorterm , only relive bad effects from the allopatic medication.
Corticosteroids, do no good.
They change the hormonesystem, creates stress damage on organs, change the bodys chemistry..and create blocks, so well indicated remedies dont get to work.
The block created by cortisone, needs to be removed by phosporus, then the rigth remedie will work as it shall, and cure.
But, again, if the causation, ist taken into considderation, and taken care of, the historie will repeat it self, leaving the case more difficult to cure next time, if not render it impossible to cure.
It is, this senselees way of prescribing,in where Hahnemanns recomendations isnt follwed, where there is a blind allopathic belive in miracles ,"IF ONLY YOU THAT THIS REMEDIE, YOU GET WELL FORVER ", DELUSION, i find wild,disgusting, a irresponbinsible, uneducated guessing..
AND THATS GENERALLY SPEAKING, NOT PERSONALLY AIMED OR PARTICULARY , NOT AIMING A CROSSHAIR AT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR.
Thanks for the attention.

%%%%OK. Try not to use all caps, it comes off as yelling and angry. I know you are very frustrated!

%%%%It is hard for Mom's when their kids are sick. And most of us here in the USA are very new to us and have a lot of pressure on us to be conventional.

%%%%We know the antibiotics and steroids like cortisone are bad. We want to not use these. Then we get from both sides if you don't use it your child could die (or have worse and worse disease) and also if you do use it that your child could die (or have worse and worse disease), which is very scary.

%%%% So what I hear from you is --and correct me if I'm wrong which is very likely--as I said I am just a beginner, only just started reading Hahnemann...

1) Do not use homeopathics and allopathics at same time. (in this child's case and in general)

2) After the current allopathic treatment is over use some homeopathic to clear his system. You have mentioned both Hepar Sulph and now Phos. so I am not sure here whether it would be one or the other or both and what sched. etc. to do either or both

3) wait for the phos or Hepar Sulph to work, so that the true picture of the child shows

4) find his true similimum or const. remedy and find a proper potency and schedule to give him that.

???????

I think we also realize that homeopathy is not supposed to be used shotgun--for this take that... but it is still hard to get into the right thinking...

My understanding is that if a right remedy is chosen, and if the blocks to its working (such as antibiotic in the system whether from toothpaste, hand soap, house cleaning products or being taken by prescription, and also cortisone etc.) are removed the the homeopathic remedy helps stimulate the body's own healing system...

Do you agree?

That being the case, do you think taking "constitutional remedies" more than once makes sense? Or only once and let the body do what it will?

I take it in this boy's case the mom gave pulsatilla more than once to help his asthma--is this okay or not okay?(I mean aside from the inhaler issue)

and what about starting low potency and working higher or plussing?

&quot; find his true similimum or const. remedy and find a proper potency and schedule to give him that."<< there exsist no constituional remedies..
its is only remedies for the presenting picture, and that changes all the time, as soon as a remedy, right or wrong is given, or a medication is given, the picture changes, the constitution, is the healthy you, and that need no cure.

Simillimum, means the remedy that fits the presented picture..
similie the remedy that fit partially....
And caps lock , means capslock.
Im sorry if that dont fit you, but the post isnt entirely aimed at you, even if you like to belive so.
Do you know why a dog barks?? NO???
Where you live has nothing to do with it, the posted isnt aimed at you personally, its a general story about slackery in socalled homeopathy, where thouroughness, and knowledge of homeopatic procedures is seriously lacking..and still, these people, who feel their caugth in slackery..or aimed at personally.they do the same as you , take it personally..
and then start up howling about my behaviour.

Please, do use some common sense.

"%%%% do you mean the germ side of the causation or the constitutional susceptibility side of the causation? Joe is clearly looking to try to identify the germ part and deal with that in his post. And you brought up the problem of antibiotic in the toothpaste."<<<
NO, i dont mean anything of the above,cause thats the opposite of what i told, simply as that, its not homeopathy.

I told, the causation is antibi.
Not germs.

To identify germs, well, that has nothing to do with the problem at all.Thats allopathy, not homeopathy,and thats not bothering to think of removing a causation, to the problem in first hand, its like a kid, who set fire to the house, with mathces..well the fire is put out, but the kid is still allowed to carry those matches..what do you think will happen??
Do you now understand?
Most of your questions, show that you either havent read what i posted, or you dont understand at all, cause your blinded by the bull youve been feeded.
In what i posted, i have already answered them, it should not be needed to repeat it endlessly.

"What is your exact suggestion to accomplish that goal and get him well?"<This case is to hard to handle on the net, but may be done, by they who have experience, and those ive not seen yet.

To: Bodhitshe

I had overlooked the boy's asthma in my last post. Since he is on the antibiotic, I would prefer not to use the homeopathic remedy as the treatment of asthma with homeopathy is very subtle and the antibiotic may antidote the homeopathic remedy.