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gangrene in foot

Dr Joe

Please help my father. Age 78 yrs. diabetic. foot care not taken. Gangrene formed. Big toe to be amputated tomorrow. admitted in hospital. Pl give some medicines and save him.
 
  sumi58 on 2006-10-13
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Give him Ars. Alb 200 wet dose. Repeat it frequently after succusing every time.

Alternatively you can give him single Ars.Alb CM dose and wait for the improvement.

Also start giving him Kali phos 6x+Silicea 6x(Tissue salts).

Most of the time this will obviate the surgery.
 
maheeru last decade
78 years man, suffering from Gangrene and getting to be operated in a day or two, and a suggestion of Ars.alb CM?

Mr.Maheeru

How do you know whether such an old man can handle the turmoil the remedy is likely to produce?

High potencies are dynamites, and Kent says they are killers in the hands of irresponsible people.

And then, Why Ars.alb for Gangrene? Why not Secale?Why not Lachesis? Why not Crotalus?

Will you give such an advice and suggest in such a way,had the patient been your father?

Please refrain from this irresponsible way of prescribing.

Murthy
 
bandarbabu2000 last decade
Dear Murthy

You will note that I ve given Tissue salt Kali phos and silicea. Kali Phos I hope you will know that revitalises gangrenous tissues by enabling the detox and silicea is good complementary in rebuilding the gangrenous tissue.

Also you will note my main preference was to the potency of 200 with repetitions.

Well done! Murthy in pointing out giving CM to old people. I gave it only secondarily coz it has given me wonderful results in those who were suggested surgery as the only way out.
 
maheeru last decade
You have not answered my question as to what made you to choose Ars.alb from among the group of remedies I indicated, all of which are possible remedies for gangrene.

Murthy
 
bandarbabu2000 last decade
Dear Murthy

Well I didn't answer your questions for 3 reasons.

1) Your tone in the questions were obviously not in good taste.

2) I thought you knew well that acute(here though, suffering is acute otherwise surgery wouldn't ve been recommended) could be prescribed on one symptom as you told elsewhere.

3) I dont even need Ars. Alb to obviate surgery as I did with my own grandfather(I gave only 2 tissue salts mentioned above). This is for your question 'Will you do it for your own father?'

My another formula like Arnica+Secale+Ars. Alb would have worked more like a charm in these types regardless of betterment with heat or cold. Out of confidence I say this I ve experimented this formula too based up on one of my teacher.


Now coming to the choice of remedies of Gangrene. You ve asked why not Lachesis or Secale.(In my contention there were 2 more Echinacea and Mercury.)

I ruled out lachesis because it belongs to animal kingdom. I prefer veg. Kingdom or mineral before Animal thing. Obviously you'd ve known that some schools are practicing this principle.

Why then Arsenic?

I will give the following references:

Baehr says -'Since Arsenic is, more than any other remedy, adapted to the worst forms of infectious diseases it seems wrong to delay its administration until the symptoms indicating it are developed in their most malignant intensity,'
As you Know, gangrene is INFECTED area it holds good.

Please refer to Boericke's Materia Medica:

'A profoundly acting remedy on every organ and tissue' which can easily have impact on big toe.

And Also the Quote:

'Maintains the system under the stress of malignancy regardless of location'

Please refer Extremities section of the Same Materia Medica.

Extremities: You will find a phrase 'Diabetic gangrene'

The same phrase 'Diabetic gangrene' has been emphasised by contemporary George Vithoulkas in his materia medica too.

So more than Secale, Arsenic is most suited to the suffering soul as he has Diabetes already.

Of course if it fails, wouldn't we think about 2nd remedy secale which we ve already discussed elsewhere.
 
maheeru last decade
Now,it is much better for discussion. : )

Dear Maheeru

I am surprised at your defence of the prescription of Ars.alb, on the very very scanty information.

Infact there is no other information except that the patient is 78 years old, and he has diabetic gangrene. Nothing else. : )

I agree that sometimes you can prescribe on a single complete symtom. A complete symptom should have the location,sensation and modality. If concomitant is present it is much better.

Now, do you think that the moment the word 'diabetic Gangrene' is mentioned, you can prescribe Ars.alb?

Here is an extract from one of Boger's papers on how to take a case in such situations.Please read carefully.
**************

On May 4th I was requested to see Mrs. C., age 67, who had been under treatment
about five months; her last attendant had discovered 2.5% of sugar in the urine about
two months previously. During the last six weeks gangrene had set in, first in the left toe
but latterly there were six blotches on each lower leg, three about the size of a silver
dollar and three smaller ones. The husband had consulted a specialist, who offered little
hope but gave a very accurate chemical and microscopic diagnosis, all of which determined
him to try Homeopathy. Although the case looked most forbidding, it did not take
long to discover that the overwhelming apathy of the patient came from a long
continued worry, and this combined with the greenish discolorations of the smaller
gangrenous spots and the profound prostration made me think of conium at once. She
therefore got one powder of the 200 every night and morning for three days, then one
every morning for a like period, then one every other day for three doses, and lastly
placebo for ten days. The anti-diabetic diet was gradually enlarged a little and in three
weeks I had the satisfaction of finding the urine free of sugar, but faint traces of
gangrene on the legs and the little toe was half well. She now was not quite so well for a
few days, but Conium 200 every other day soon set everything right, part of the toe
sloughed off and it healed up. The patient is now up and about looking very well.

*****************

See the way, the case is taken.And the medicine is none of our favourites.!!!

I really don't know how you people can suggest to take this medicine or that medicine, the moment you hear something like 'diabetic gangrene'.

Is it homeopathy?

Pause and think.

Murthy

P.S. If you are interested I can give url for the Boger's paper.
 
bandarbabu2000 last decade
Sumi58,
Has the operation been deferred ??

Pankaj Varma
 
PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Also look at Ledum.
 
kuldeep last decade
Dear Murthy

You asked me why you chose Ars. Alb. I answered! My earlier post was pretty explanatory.

Now you are telling me that You are surprised! Probably you would have thought I was playing around blurting(which you did citing you were showing how easy its to prescribe) the remedy and wont answer your question(prejudice).

How could I won't answer dear Murthy? I ve thought quite a bit which remedy will help the suffering soul. Obviously here we have no time to prevent him from amputation so I went ahead with scant information. I dont say its good practice and wherever possible I ve avoided the situation. You may want to know that personally I ve seen people suffering post amputation which can't be put in writing. I've strong opinions against amputation or bye-pass like surgeries whatever you can suggest in their defence unless its the last resort.


Quote:

really don't know how you people can suggest to take this medicine or that medicine, the moment you hear something like 'diabetic gangrene'.

Is it homeopathy?

UnQuote

Please read this link

http://www.hpathy.com/homeopathyforums/forum_posts.asp?TID=4...

where you questioned an experienced practitioner like K.V. Natarajan. Please read the answer given by Dr. Leela. Its not possible for all to have your view point. I ve already talked with you about different schools of thought.


Thanks for Boger's reference and the advice about thinking. Advice taken. I'm open minded.

Finally we dont have much time before the poor soul's amputation. Please help him with the appropriate remedy as you deem fit.
 
maheeru last decade
A correction in one of my earlier post:

Extremeties section of Remedy Arsenicum Album in Boericke's Materia medica.
 
maheeru last decade
Dear Maheeru

I am glad you are one of the few people willing to discuss the reasons behind remedy choice.

I really appreciate it.

Coming to the question of K.V.Natarajan, the same Dr.Leela asked him to stop prescrbing in haste in one of the later threads.

I will provide the link later.

Though all of us want to help the patients in need, we can't do that on scant information.

The seekers too should learn how to ask for homeopathic help.

Oneway is to keep on telling them to provide the minimum information required. After some time, they may perhaps tell us a symptom as it should be told.

Kent says it is in the interest of the patient not to prescribe anything, when you are not sure of the remedy.

I believe in it.

Murthy
 
bandarbabu2000 last decade
Hi Maheeru

This was the post I was referring to regarding Dr.Natarajan.

***********************

Dr. Natrajan, I can see the reasons you think of Agnus castus, Phos or Staph. But prescribing in 1M without obtaining a little more information to support the prescription is not advised here. Being online requires even more caution than seeing a patient face to face. We have actively discouraged such 'try this' and 'try that' suggestions. We are looking for ACCOUNTABILITY on both sides and that happens if one waits a little.

Thanks,

d.r leela

****************************
http://www.hpathy.com/homeopathyforums/forum_posts.asp?TID=4....
 
bandarbabu2000 last decade
oops apologies Murthy. (Prejudice)must read as (prejudice?).
 
maheeru last decade
Sumi 58

Has the operation been postponed? Are you still looking for homeopathic medicine / advice ??

Pankaj Varma
 
PANKAJ VARMA last decade
I thank all the Doctors. Sadly, the toe has been amputated. I look forward to you for post operative care
 
sumi58 last decade
Dear Sumi

Oh very sad indeed!

Please be careful to look after the patient from infection/post operation complications.

Homeopathic remedies helpful in post operative care:

Staphysagria 6 could be given once for negating ill-effects of surgery.

Arnica
(Leader): Could be given immediately after operation in 200 potency. And this could be repeated for 2 days.

Calendula 6x could also be administered as its best disinfectant for operated parts.
 
maheeru last decade
Dear patients and doctors,
French beans juice cures gangrene and diabetes and helps avoid amputation for gangrene patients. Please administer the same as treatment. I have personally tried it on a patient.
 
bhagat325 9 years ago
With due empathy to all prescribers here,i think inplace of wasting the precious time if sumi could provide 3-4 more symptoms to confirm the remedy it would have been more matured.This marathon discussion could have been continued on two days later also.The poor soul ultimately lost his toe.
Feel sorry!! some body questions the prescriber thats ok but it is not necessary to reply him then and there..it is not the focus of activity..mahiru good sentiment might have hasted but if some more symptoms asking was done there was more chance that a good remedy cud have come up
n e waay wats happened can't be altered now but this is my request to all prescribers to focus on the activity like Arjuna of Mahabharata.
No intention to hurt any one i hope my opinion will be taken in right spirit.
'Alla ttero naam sab ko sanmati de bhagwan'
vivek
 
bapu4 9 years ago
Dear friend,
I am new to this forum and this is the first time I've posted here. You must infact, appreciate any contributions here. French beans juice is a general juice and symptoms are not needed for prescribing this. The patient would not have lost his toe had he been given the juice. I've tried this on a patient and his ampuation was saved. Homoepathic medicaiton can be used along with this treatment. Please note the same!
 
bhagat325 9 years ago
Dear Bhagat,

This scenario was long back in year 2006. Thanks for your fruitful tip on this forum. It is worth trying. It might had benefited patient if there was timely help from you !

Please let me know the following :

1) For how long one need to drink the french beans juice?
2) what is the intake quantity?
3) How many times a day ?
4) Can the french bean be eaten raw instead drinking the juice?
5) Any other medicine to be taken along with the juice?
6)You say it Homoepathic medication can be used with this treatment, what medicine are you talking about?

Do share other tips which can be of good to the patients. You contribution on this forum is appreciated.


Regards,
Nikkie.
 
Nikkie 9 years ago
Dear Nikkie,
The patient I cured was given just 3 glasses of french beans juice for 1 day, but a juice has absolutely no side effect so I suggest the patient be given upto 5 glasses per day. Try upto a week. Keep 2 hours gap (or even 1 hour depending whether patient's tolerance capacity). French beans can be taken raw too but the patient would get fed up since its not very tasty. Juice is the best way to administer large quantity which mixes fastest with the blood stream. Let me remind, its just a juice, even if the patient takes it daily, it cannot harm him. Specially useful for diabetics, since it contains natural insulin. However don't give too much to a perfectly healthy patient as his sugar levels may drop. You can try a glass of carrot juice along with it to see if it has any good effect. Homoepathic medication varies as per symptoms, but the general medication as per the laws of homeopathy (standard gap between food/bathing/brushing/cofee/spices/perfumes) can be complied with. I'm not allowed to post urls or mail ids here or i would promote the cause further on facebook and even show online proof!
Thanks and Regards,
Bhagat Makhijani
 
bhagat325 9 years ago
The feedback didn't mention clearly whether any homeopathic remedy was administered or which suggestion was followed. So there's not a clear picture here.

And whenever a person is admitted in a hospital and scheduled a surgery, usually nothing is going to stop them from going ahead.

It's always easy to criticise or judge a decision post facto but it'd not be fair because the decision is taken in the world of uncertainty!

---------

Bhagat Makhijani

You might want to present your tip in a new thread so as to make it available for a wider audience.
[message edited by maheeru on Thu, 22 Sep 2011 19:04:53 BST]
 
maheeru 9 years ago
Dear maheeru,
I can provide you complete details of the patient including contact number and you speak for yourself to the patient. I was overjoyed with this cure and so am spreading it. As for the homeopathic treatment, I gave the patient arsenic alb but prescribing any remedy without knowing specific symptoms in homeopathy only amounts to faulty treatment. Search for doctor prasad R chandragiri registered on google. He can cure almost any disease. He topped his college, a gold medalist in homoepathy. You will find him on the allexperts forum. Even he agrees with my treatment.
 
bhagat325 9 years ago
I'm a very keen student of homeopathy. Not even a doctor, infact studing commerce. However Ive cured countless poeple through homeopathic knowledge. So the purpose here is to promote service. Narayani mixtures are a magical form (infact the best) in homeopathic medication. Bone mix cures any form of athritis, no matter how serious. Flu pack cures a running nose. Knee mix for any form of pain in knees. Heart palpitation cures palpitation problems. In narayani mixtures, the disease has the same name as the remedy. I found this worth sharing since it has cured miraculously as ive observed myself and by dr.satinder singh ( a renowned doctor worldwide and in delhi)
 
bhagat325 9 years ago
Dear Bhagat,
Nice to see your interest in Homeopathy.

Pllease use the following thread for sharing your cases.

http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/286903/

Regards,
Nikkie.
 
Nikkie 9 years ago

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