Brisbanehomeopath: Here is the case as we discussed

Ok cool, let me have a look over it - I am not too fussed about the cream at this point, as long as it isn't cortisone or the like, you can work around it.

I can probably only offer possibilities and directions for case taking or treatment - and let you decide what to prescribe - is that ok?

Ok so these are the things I pulled out that seemed important. There is a lot of positive traits in there that are not appopriate for remedy selection (as we don't want to change those in any way). And a number of things that aren't peculiar enough to direct you to a remedy.

Can’t make him do something'. He will do it in his own time

Short attention span

Delayed in talking (he mimics)

Bored and wanting attention

Cries easily on reprimand

Other kid bully him, he quickly recedes.

Very agile. Really agile. Can put his leg at the same level as his head if he needs to climb on something

Susceptible to colds that settle in his chest with a lot of phlegm that 'gurgles inside

Raw/bleeding

So that is all I can get out so far. Is there some way you can focus on those aspects and talk more about them? The most interesting to me is the Agile body - can you go into more detail there? Describe posture, movement, gestures, impressions of how he looks when he moves and so on. Look at this post for one of the ways I prescribe for pre-vocal children.

http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/194349/

Superficially the state looks tubercular. That is one possibility. Although that still opens up a lot of possible remedies.

I don;t want to say too much more about my ideas till you give me some more info - I don't want to sway you :)

What are the events or objects that most strongly affect him?

When he is affected, what is his first reaction?

How does he physically react or gesture when affected? (you might need to spend some time watching him to get this exactly)

What is his next reaction to said event or object? (after the first more immediate one)

What was the situation of your pregnancy, any event or stress that was prominent during it?

What physical changes occured during pregnancy that were unusual? (symptom-wise)

How was the birth?

What were the first 3 months of his life like? (health-wise or stress-wise)

What were your impressions of your son in the first few months of his life? (character, personality)

Does he yet seem like either yourself or his father? (character, personality)

What illnesses do yourself or your husband have that are chronic? For yourself, did any othese illnesses aggravate or reduce during pregnancy?

Was he breastfed and how did he go when weaned?

Has he shown any fears or anxieties? Did he display such feelings in the past but have since disappeared?

What is the most recent symptom he has shown?

Since using the cream has anything else changed?(apart from the obvious improvement in the skin)

Is his behavior different when faced with yourself rather than his father?

Firstly my apologies for assuming you were the mother! That is just habit for me as mostly mothers bring the children in to my clinic :)

Secondly, can I ask if he reacted to any vaccines, and which ones?

Ok there are a couple of ideas I have - nothing strongly stands out for me. I tend to rely on face-to-face observations especially for kids.

There are several ways to attempt treatment. Since there is nothing obvious in the pregnancy either (mood changes, thoughts, dreams etc of the mother often can lead me to the remedy - it is surprising to see the child's future state appear in the mother)you can either do a simple repertory case, or look for something that fits the more unusual aspects of the case.

From a simple repertory perspective a number of remedies appear - the main two being Carcinosinum and Pulsatilla. It is important too look at how they are similar and how they are different when making a choice.

Characteristics that Puls does not show:-

Scratching till they are raw and bleeds
Reprimand leads to weeping
Cold wind and rain aggravates
Colds descend to the chest

Characteristics that Carc does not show:-

Alternating moods
Scratching till raw and bleeds
Bored easily
Cold wind and rain aggravates
Colds descend to the chest
Fickle

If I had to choose between these two I would probably choose Pulsatilla. However, neither remedy suits the physical state specifically.

By shifting attention to the physical symptoms the remedies that are more prominent are Dulcamara, Petroleum and Kali-carb. Both Dulc and Petr are well know for the eczema you have described. Looking at the case from this perspective, which of these remedies best also suits his character?

From the rubrics, Petroleum is Obstinate, headstrong, but also Yielding, and alternating moods. It is also known to produce colds that descend to the chest and is aggravated by milk.

Dulcamara is Obstinate, Domineering mostly with the family, also Yielding and with Alternating moods, aggravated by milk and one of our most well-known remedies for aggravatin from the Cold Damp.

If I look at the newest information on Dulcamara (which includes both clinical information and a recent proving)the following statements seem applicable :-

Quarrelsome but without being angry
Impatience
Domineering, strong-minded with the family
Ailments from exposure to cold wet weather
Coryza and catarrh is prominent
Worse cold better warmth
Every cold settles in the respiration (chest)
Moist loose cough, rattling from mucous
Hurried and restless

So perhaps if you look over those remedies, and the information I have given, you can consider what you might like to do.

Note to bris- you got Puls wrong----Puls got symptom of -- scratch till bleed -- check Kent repertory --

scratch until it bleeds, must : Agar., alum., arg-m., Ars., bar-c., bov., carb-v., chlol., led., med., psor., puls.

--Puls got symptom of -- cold air agg --check Kent repertory--

COLD in general agg.; cold air agg. : Puls in italics


--Puls got symptom of -- reprimand leads to weeping -- most weepy remedy -- weep at drop of hat-- Puls got symptom of colds going to chest -- tubercular-- many asthmatic -- catarrh --chest symptoms prominent-- one of best medicine for allergic asthma --colds settle in chest often --

-- Even Carc --you got wrong --Carc--fickle -- extremely fickle -- cancer disease always changing form -- always in metamorphpsis-- expanding boundaries-- -- in the disease nature of cancer-- go to Murphy repertory-- check-- under
Mind--changeable-- fickle ; Carc in italics
Go to synthesis repertory-- look for -- generals; symptoms --changing always-- carc again present
Carc--got love and hate relation with food items-- loved one thing--start hating the same-- very changeable-- one of the most fickle remedy--
Carc got symptom of -- bored easily-- go to Murphy repertory -- will have Carc in mind -- desires change--

Carc-- never-prescribed on physicals--mostly prescribed on mentals--food cravings--and history--etyology -- bad way to chose carc if go by physical-- as physical picture poorly represented in repertory-- but extremely deep medicine-- tubercular and sycotic -- so must have -- colds that settle in chest--

Not saying --puls or carc remedy here-- but--analysis above gone wrong-- gotta read repertory fully--before writing things--

Ok answering your questions one at a time...


[BH] It is surprising to see the child's future state appear in the mother

[ASKE] Can you please clarify what this means? (As I wrote in my post, his behavior is like mine, looks are like his mother)
Answer: When a mother is carrying her child, we often notice that she displays character changes and symptoms that belong to the child. These symptoms usually vanish when the baby is born, and are not seen again until the child gets older (in the child). So we can sometimes use them to understand the state of the child, expressed through the adult perceptions of the mother.

[BH] (In an earlier post you wrote):Ok so these are the things I pulled out that seemed important. There is a lot of positive traits in there that are not appopriate for remedy selection (as we don't want to change those in any way). And a number of things that aren't peculiar enough to direct you to a remedy.

[ASKE] But should the positive traits not be considered when you are looking for a simillimum remedy? My understanding is that when looking for a simillimum, one needs to address the essence of what describes the child, positive or negative.

Answer: This is a common mistake made, especially amongst students of homoeopathy.I will try to explain why we don't use positive traits.

All remedies match diseases. A disease state is an unhealthy state. We attempt to cure the disease by giving something that creates the same symptoms. By doing so the disease will disappear. If one uses positive traits, the implication is you will attempt to cure them.

Some 'positive' traits are in fact very situational, meaning that they only happen in specific situations - for instance Cheerful in Company. for this symptom to be a sign of disease, the person NEEDS company to be cheerful, showing a loss of flexibility to be cheerful in other situations. 'Cheerful' should never be considered a disease state, since it is not unhealthy and we don't want to cure it.

'Essence' prescribing should not be about the child's personality, but about the disease that is distorting their personality. The trick is to seperate what is sickness, from what is health. Pick out the things that you want to change, that create distress, that prevent the person from experiencing their full potential - those are the things that define the disease.

When I analyzed, my approach was this:
Peculiar or not, look at the core traits of the child and match the major remedies, then, select the remedy from that set, that matches his problematic symptoms.

My primary source of reference(s): Hom. treatment of children - Herscu, Homeopathic Psychology - Bailey, and a few repertories.

When I assessed his mentals, I asked myself, how would I define his 'essense'. To me it was two traits - his effervescence and social nature, and his obstinacy. I am unfortunately on travel right now, but there are many more characteristics that matched both Phos and Sulph (primary source for this was Herscu and Bailey).

Then I tried matching the symptoms -
obstinacy is there in both phos and sulph
colds settling to chest is very prominent in sulph
indignation at not getting what he wants is very strong in sulph (sulph has 4 kinds of children defined in herscu)
eczema is covered under both
the essense of Phos is 'effervescence'
Again, I don't have a full list, but once I get back home, I'd love to post my notes and have your comments.

Answer: Essence prescribing actually can be tricky, especially because there will be 20 different descriptions of this essence from different authors.

Every remedy has something important about it that is vital to understanding the remedy - but that must be related to the disease state too. Phosphorous is one of the most misunderstood polycrests, because of all the positive spin it gets. These are features that should never be used to determine how unhealthy someone is:

Friendly
Sympathetic
Creative
Social
Happy and bright
Affectionate

These are all healthy charactersistics, and surely if you cured someone, this is the sort of character you would hope would emerge. They should never be used to determine if someone is sick.

Every remedy has different levels at which they operate - Physical, General, Emotional etc. You may see disturbance across all levels or just some. So you have to know the remedies on all these levels too so you can respond to all the different ways a patient may appear, even those patiens all needing the same remedy. Phosporous with no emotional or mental symptoms will look quite different.

So his social friendly nature is not something you want to cure - in fact it seems a wonderful aspect of your son and should be left untouched by treatment.

The obstinancy is different though - but with any broad symptom like this you must define it as precisely as possible. There are 556 remedies listed in Reference Works for it. What I could see, was a child that alternated between that and Yielding. Sometimes he was stubborn, sometimes he gave in. He starts to resist, then he yields. So this is a way of defining the symptom further to make our job of choosing one of the thousands of remedies, easier.

[BH] By shifting attention to the physical symptoms the remedies that are more prominent are Dulcamara, Petroleum and Kali-carb. Both Dulc and Petr are well know for the eczema you have described. Looking at the case from this perspective, which of these remedies best also suits his character?

I haven't tried either Dulc or Petr. I will read and respond to this in detail. Let me ask you this, however, are either of these remedies that can cure chronic symptoms ?

Answer: My answer here is that every remedy can cure any chronic state, if the symptoms match. So yes they can, I have used both in clinic for chronic complaints.

And just to respond to Johny's statements....

You are correct about Puls coming up in that scratching symptom. When I used Reference Works to do my search, the symptom I used was 'Must scratch until raw and bleeding' which unfortunately excluded Puls.

Cold air aggravates is not precise enough - it is too broad a symptom and is better indiviualised in the patient by 'Cold wind and wet aggravates' for which Puls is not indicated.

Looking at Kent's repertory, Puls is not included in Weeping from reproaches, or Weeping when remonstrated. The weeping seems very specific - Puls weeps at happy or sad things, cannot help but weep in all situations, is probably the first reaction to everything.

I don't have Murphy's repertory although I do have his materia medica. One thing I will say about Murphy's books is that they are great repositories of many things that have been said about remedies, but they have not been edited for errors. I prefer to use Synthesis where the errors from the past have been meticiulously sorted out and corrected.

Fickle, when put into Reference Works, does not bring up Carc. However Carc certainly is capricious which is similar. I would imagine, if Fickle was such an important part of the remedy, that one of the 200 books in my database might mention it (including Murphy's mat med).

Carcinosin has a wealth of physical symptoms - although I agree it is certainly not represented as well as Pulsatilla and its ilk. I have used Carc very frquently in clinic for children - I would say they all shared a basic nature - Fastidious beyond their years, Very particular even more so than Ars and Silicea, Extraordinarily sensitive to punishment and reprimands. I have seen Carc adults quit jobs rather than face criticism and reprimands. Remarkable need to get everything right, get all their lines straight, get their words correct, do all the good things that are expected of them.

Of course in someone this young, this nature may not be evident yet.

You will find in Carc too, the opposite state - the rebel who deliberately does everything wrong, even though they know the difference between right and wrong;Who is deliberately messy, deliberately defiant and seems to dare you to punish them (which even in this higly compensated state, will be greatly affected by such punishment).

I use a more complex system of miasmatic classification - in that system Carc is the nosode for its own miasm, Puls is sycotic, Dulc is ringworm, Petr is Psoric. Colds that settle in the chest are not just tubercular although you might consider the miasm of course.

Colds - settle - chest/lung/respiration gives us the following remedies:-

ars, calc, caust, coc-c, Dulc, eup-per, hep, iod, idof, Ip, kai-c, lyc, Nux-v, ph-ac, PHOS, rhus-t, seneg, sep, SIL, sin-n, stann, stram, sulph

So we have Cancer, Psoric, Tubercular, Ringworm, Typhoid, Sycotic, Leprosy and Acute miasms all represented in this rubric.

Btw johny, I appreciate your input. I think it is really important that we are challenged in our ideas, one of the things that my students always taught me. We can become too complacent if we do not take up such challenges and genuinely examine the things we say and believe, and close ourselves off to improvement (which is a neverending process for us as homoeopaths).

--i like synthesis too--Synthesis--Mind--desires change-- Carc present
Synthesis--generalities--symptoms--changing constantly--Carc present
--again as i said-- in the disease nature of cancer to evolve--Carc. is indicated in constantly changing symptoms and states. --Contradictory and alternating states--read foubister--read murphy--read phatak--i dint ask about perfectionist trait--i just said physicals poorly represented--mainly mind symptom-food craving-history/etyology totality for carc-- your answer just reinforces what i said--unless fastidiousness is physical trait--

if puls sycotic --(even if i agree which i actually dont)-- why do you recommend --puls, carc, dulc, pert-- all different miasma as you say-- what is active miasm according to you then ?-- doesnt make sense to me --if same family of symptoms gives--remedies of different miasms--then something wrong with system of so many miasmas-- why throw remedies of so many miasmas ?

I am not making a prescription here, I am simply offering some observations about the case. I don't make prescriptions for cases I cannot see personally as I don't think that it is possible to get all the information you need. As you can see, via this medium, you can go in lots of directions. Many of the methods I would use to more precisely make a choise of remedy can't work here.

It is interesting, the discussion about Carcinosin. It is definitely true there is a changeability to their nature, and to their symptoms. Why not fickle though?

When using words from materia medica, and repertory, it is often necessary to get their exact meaning. Many times an entire peronality has been reduced to a single word, which is dangerous since we all then interpret that word differently.

(Definition of Fickle from the dictionary)

'Fickle implies an underlying perversity as a cause for the lack of stability: the fickle seasons, disappointing as often as they delight; once lionized, now rejected by a fickle public'

adj. Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious.

[Middle English fikel, from Old English ficol, deceitful.]
fick'le·ness n., fick'ly adv.

So with this meaning in mind, Fickle does not well apply to the case. Or to Carc. But it does very well to Pulsatilla. Fickle therefore was an assumption on my part - words can be quite tricky and it is all we often have on a forum like this. It can create problems you rarely have in person.

It would be interesting to have a full discussion about Carc, rubric meanings, essence etc. in other posts. I might do that actually so as not to clutter this post up too much.

I really enjoy a good discussion about homoeopathy. Thank you Johny for getting my homoeopathic juices all stirred up! :)

ok--sometimes--admitting mistake easier than --justifying you correct--

here--it goes--

SYNTHESIS REPERTORY

mind--sensitive --reprimand--puls is present (now--you might say--it is not crying on reprimand--but again--sometimes admitting easy--justifying tough--)

mind--sensitive--rudeness-puls is present

generals--weather--cold wet agg--puls present

generals--WET--getting agg --puls present (3 point), highest grade--

skin--itching--scratching--bleeds-must scratch intil it--puls is present--

i know you might again justtify-- but again easier admitting--maybe tough for you to admit mistake--but i see it easier way--first analysis faulty about puls--

also--even if just suggesting remedy--not prescribing-- suggestion not good- if suggesting remedy of 4 miasmas-- something needs revisit

I have been polite enough to listen to your comments. Please refrain from telling me that I am wrong or that I am making mistakes. I have already said that I am jut making suggestions for possible directions. Why are you so intent on making me see that I am wrong I wonder? I don't see you on any other posts telling people that they are incorrect or quoting rubrics. Why are you here insisting I admit to errors?

Firstly, Rudeness is not Reprimand - they are not the same thing and it is not precise enough to substitute one for the other. If you do that you will just get to any remedy again. We need specifics to narrow our choices in some way.

In puls, to be more precise, it is the HUMIDITY that aggravates them, not so much the cold. If you look at the symptom in its complete form it says ' There is aggravation from heat, close atmosphere, humidity, even cold wet; also from too many clothes or too heavy bed-covers.'

And as a further note 'Aiments brought on from being suddenly chilled when hot or from getting wet through, may call for Pulsatilla or possibly Dulcamara.'

So between the two you have a similarity, Dulc will be more affected by the cold, Puls more affected by the wet. If you look at Cold Wet aggravates, DULC is in fact of the highest grade along with RHUS-TOX and RHOD.

I have already acknowledged that Pulsatilla comes up in two seperate Scratching rubrics for raw, and for bleeding - you don't need to keep harping on it to prove whatever the point is here.

I do not know the miasm here,this case is incomplete without a face-to-face interview. I have attempted to be transparent about the process I might go through in order to analyze it, sharing those thoughts and not attempting to make a prescription in any direction. That was my intention, it is not a 'faulty analysis' as you put it. It is an incomplete one.

By doing this, I hope to show how COMPLEX the process is, how much research might go in to determining any patient's remedy. Your arguments simply prove that point - by showing the sort of to-and-fro that goes on in the homoeopath's mind, the juggling of similarities, of differences, of fine distinctions. So for that I thank you - valuable learning for anyone who might believe prescribing homoeopathically is simple for chronic cases.

--SYNTHESIS REPERTORY

mind--sensitive --REPRIMAND--puls is present -- grade 1 (no remedy higher thhan 2)

generals--cold-agg- puls -grade 2

-generals--cold wet-agg- puls -grade 2

-generals -- getting wet agg-puls present-grade 3

chest--catarrh -- puls -grade 3

chest--complaints of -- puls --grade 3

i will say faulty-- maybe my english not good-- but still--you find hard to admit-- i see clearly-- u gone wrong-- u said-- 4 things about puls--

'Characteristics that Puls does not show:-

Scratching till they are raw and bleeds
Reprimand leads to weeping
Cold wind and rain aggravates
Colds descend to the chest
'

out of above-- 3 are clear not correct-- why justify--on those--maybe--chest--part--you can justify--no way--other points--

And again, you help me to prove my point. Thanks Johny you are probably doing a better job than I am.

Every case is difficult and tricky when you focus on details without knowing which detail represents the deeper and more important part of the case. At some point, some remedies may be similar enough to all those points to have positive effects on the patient too.

Thanks again for your input.

Discussion would have been more cordial had the emphasis been on sharing information rather than scoring a point or two.

Repertories very frequently show opposite modalities for many of the polychrests to cover both the primary and secondary actions.

No repertory will tell you that in acute problems Puls is likely to be aggravated by cold. It also fails to tell you that the patient feels chilly when there is pain and that the more the pain the more the patient feels chilly.

These things can be learnt only through meticulous study of materia medica. Repertory is only a guide. Finally it is the MM that should be depended upon to choose the remedy.

With so many MMs available, the question comes up which MM? I find that the good old Kent, Nash and Clarke are the most reliable.

Murthy

--gavini--good-to--see--you

--you say 'It also fails to tell you that the patient feels chilly when there is pain and that the more the pain the more the patient feels chilly. '

I open SYNTHESIS--

CHILL--PAIN WITH (pg 1709)--Puls--grade 3 --

but you right--repertory--only tool--ultimate selection based on miasm--based on essence-- but my problem is--my langauge is too direct--i bristle egos-- people call themselves homeopaths-- me just average johny the plumber--i refer to synthesis--only because--bris-likes synthesis--when i try to say--traits he says puls lacks-actually there in puls--he does not admit--i refer to repertory to convince--now tell me-- do you agree with this--

'Characteristics that Puls does not show:-

Scratching till they are raw and bleeds
Reprimand leads to weeping
Cold wind and rain aggravates
Colds descend to the chest
'

Hi John

I don't have synthesis. It is nice to know that Synthesis does cover that peculiarity of Puls.

It is possible that other repertories too have it.

I agree that Puls has these characteristics.But as I said repertorial analysis alone is not enough. The total picture should seem to match the remedy when you read the MM.

David did accept that your inputs are accurate.

Murthy

Murthy