The ABC Homeopathy Forum
Wet Dose
3.20 pm // 31/8/10Dr. Maheeru:
This is in reference and continuation to our correspondence in the thread entitled Trigeminal Neuralgia. I am starting a new thread entitled Wet Dose for apparent reasons.
I seem to be getting in conflict with everyone at the forum. Please be sure my only aim is to get my doubts removed.
You wrote to me : After taking one drop from 1M and mixing it with 99 drops of DD water and then 10 succussions then it would have given you the next C scale potency i.e 1001C (1M=1000c). My understanding has been that at proper dilution, two (not ten) succussions raises the potency by 1C. I got this idea from a book entitled LM Scale written by Dr. Fernando Flores Villalva; Central University of Ecuador; Doctor Specialised in Homeopathy; Medical School of Homeopathy, Argentina; Family Medicine Postgraduate, Ecuador; Member, Medical Society of Homeopathy, Ecuador; Liga Medicorum Homeopathic Internationalis.
About the Author, it is written:
Dr. Fernando Flores Villalva, born in Quito, graduated as a surgeon from the Central University of Ecuador. He postgraduated as homeopath in Mexico under the guardianship of Dr. David Flores Toledo and in Argentia at the Medical School of Homeopathy (1984).
He was the:
- Director of Ecuadorian Medical School of Homeopathy (1989 -1991).
- Director of Doctrine (1993-1996).
- Director of the Homeopathic Magazine (1993-1996).
- Professor Invitee to the 1st Seminar of L.M. in Sao Paulo Brazil (1996).
- Chairperson of Ecuadorian Homeopathic Society (1995-1998).
..
He has instructed seminars about L.M. Scale in Guadalajara, Mexico (2000).
..
He was the senior professor at the Medical Ecuadorian School of Homeopathica Internalis League.
I have written in details about the book and its author so much, to impress upon ourselves that we should not sidetrack what is written in the book unless we have something different by someone of similar or higher standing.
The entire contents of this book deals with potencies in Decimal, Centesimal and 50 Millesimal Scales. It was first published in Spanish in 1992. First English edition came in 2005. I am quoting from its reprint of 2007, page 7 reads:
PREPARATION OF THE CENTESIMAL SCALE
It is convenient to further describe the preparation of the centesimal scale in order to compare both of them.
Two drops of the substance + ninety nine drops of alcohol + 2 powerful successions.
One drop = first Hahnemann centesimal . ( i.e. 1 CH )
One drop of 1 CH + 99 drops of alohol + two successions
One drop = second centesimal (i.e. 2 CH)
Two drops are taken from a mixture in equal parts, of fresh juice of a herb and alcohol; put in ninety nine drops of alcohol and given 2 powerful successions to the vial containing the liquid.
For further dynamizations one drop is taken from the former, plus 99 drops of alcohol, and succussed two times.
Previously 10 succussions were given, but in the footnote to Article 270 of the fifth edition, Hahnemann says:
In order to maintain a fixed and measured standard for developing the power of liquid medicines, multiple experiences and careful observations have led me to adopt two succussions for each phial, in preference to the greater number formerly employed ( by which the medicines were too highly potentized). .
This would mean that 10 succussions were given till 4th edition of Organon. It became 2 succussions after 5th edition; thereafter LM Scale was further introduced in 6th edition.
Apart from the above, there appears to some other confusions also at the forum like the potency may increase but only negligibly if more than 10 ( or 2) successions are given to the same dilution of the medicinal solution.
I request all at the forum to kindly tell me as to what exactly is correct.
P. Prakash
P. Prakash on 2010-08-31
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Prakash
As a patient one is better off to get potencies from a standard pharmacy without getting into technical stuff :)
I'm not aware of the book you've mentioned.
But the details the author has given about organon are true.
In the 4th edition of organon(mind you this is the most famous and most widely used edition in most parts of the world) he specifies the number of succussions to be 10. This has been universalised to an extent. But some pharmacies(especially in U.S) follow 100 succussions for a centesimal potency preparation based on organon 6th edition(But many feel this number is specific to LMs and not Centesimals). Only a few pharmacies/homeopaths who make their own remedies follow 2 succussions based on the footnote of 270th aphorism in Organon 5th edition.
David Little, a contemporary authority on homeopathy contends that when succussions are done manually they are stopped with 10, but when they are machine driven upto 40.(For Decimal and Centesimal scales)
======
'Apart from the above, there appears to some other confusions also at the forum like the potency may increase but only negligibly if more than 10 ( or 2) successions are given to the same dilution of the medicinal solution.'
To understand this better one needs to read upon Organon(homeopathy's foundational book) 5th and or 6th Edition or at least part 3 of 'Chronic Diseases'. He talks about dynamising a remedy in water so that a patient may be dosed frequently to speed up the cure gently which is in contrast of the dry dosing method. The wet dose as it's usually referred to, on this forum comes from the split dose method described in the above references by Hahnemann. The split dose is done by dissolving the globule(s) in water volume equivalent to a range between 7 and 40 tablespooons spproximately between 120 ml and 600ml and giving tea spoon doses from these solutions depending upon the disease, other factors including the sensitivity of an individual. Before every dose either the solution is stirred well or succussed between 7 to 12 times to modify every successive dose. Here the modified dose only changes negligibly(in small degrees unlike the step by step ascending scale of potency) because this does not involve further dilution as it is done in manufacturing potencies.
Wet dose descriptions on the forum may have subtle differences depending upon the homeopaths' knowledge and experience. Basic is same as it is derived from Organon 5, split dose method.
As a patient one is better off to get potencies from a standard pharmacy without getting into technical stuff :)
I'm not aware of the book you've mentioned.
But the details the author has given about organon are true.
In the 4th edition of organon(mind you this is the most famous and most widely used edition in most parts of the world) he specifies the number of succussions to be 10. This has been universalised to an extent. But some pharmacies(especially in U.S) follow 100 succussions for a centesimal potency preparation based on organon 6th edition(But many feel this number is specific to LMs and not Centesimals). Only a few pharmacies/homeopaths who make their own remedies follow 2 succussions based on the footnote of 270th aphorism in Organon 5th edition.
David Little, a contemporary authority on homeopathy contends that when succussions are done manually they are stopped with 10, but when they are machine driven upto 40.(For Decimal and Centesimal scales)
======
'Apart from the above, there appears to some other confusions also at the forum like the potency may increase but only negligibly if more than 10 ( or 2) successions are given to the same dilution of the medicinal solution.'
To understand this better one needs to read upon Organon(homeopathy's foundational book) 5th and or 6th Edition or at least part 3 of 'Chronic Diseases'. He talks about dynamising a remedy in water so that a patient may be dosed frequently to speed up the cure gently which is in contrast of the dry dosing method. The wet dose as it's usually referred to, on this forum comes from the split dose method described in the above references by Hahnemann. The split dose is done by dissolving the globule(s) in water volume equivalent to a range between 7 and 40 tablespooons spproximately between 120 ml and 600ml and giving tea spoon doses from these solutions depending upon the disease, other factors including the sensitivity of an individual. Before every dose either the solution is stirred well or succussed between 7 to 12 times to modify every successive dose. Here the modified dose only changes negligibly(in small degrees unlike the step by step ascending scale of potency) because this does not involve further dilution as it is done in manufacturing potencies.
Wet dose descriptions on the forum may have subtle differences depending upon the homeopaths' knowledge and experience. Basic is same as it is derived from Organon 5, split dose method.
♡ maheeru last decade
Dr. Maheeru:
Thank you very much for the details. This means there is no fixed concept as to how different potencies are made. Can you please tell me what is being followed by the manufacturers of homeopathic medicines, say, by SBL in India or by M/s. Dr.Reckeweg & Co. Gmbh and M/s. Adelmar Pharma Gmbh in Germany - because that is what we are using in India? That will settle the issue once for ever.
P. Prakash
Thank you very much for the details. This means there is no fixed concept as to how different potencies are made. Can you please tell me what is being followed by the manufacturers of homeopathic medicines, say, by SBL in India or by M/s. Dr.Reckeweg & Co. Gmbh and M/s. Adelmar Pharma Gmbh in Germany - because that is what we are using in India? That will settle the issue once for ever.
P. Prakash
P. Prakash last decade
Dr. Maheeru:
Now I really want know what is being actually done in making tDr. Maheeru:
Now I really want know what is being actually done in making the medicines which we are using.
The publishers of the book entitled 'LM Scale' by Dr.F. F. Villalva are:
B. Jain Publishers (P) Ltd.
1921, Street No. 10,
Chuna Mandi, Paharganj,
New Delhi - 110 055.
Ph.: 2358 0800, 2358 3100, 2358 1300, 2358 1100,
Website: www.bjainbooks.com
Thankin you once again,
P. Prakash
Now I really want know what is being actually done in making tDr. Maheeru:
Now I really want know what is being actually done in making the medicines which we are using.
The publishers of the book entitled 'LM Scale' by Dr.F. F. Villalva are:
B. Jain Publishers (P) Ltd.
1921, Street No. 10,
Chuna Mandi, Paharganj,
New Delhi - 110 055.
Ph.: 2358 0800, 2358 3100, 2358 1300, 2358 1100,
Website: www.bjainbooks.com
Thankin you once again,
P. Prakash
P. Prakash last decade
Prakash
In Germany, most pharmacies follow 10 succussions. Schwabe, Reckweg follow 10 to my knowledge.
Helios a top online supplier does 10 succussions manually(the lower potencies) and the higher potencies with 40 succussions using their high power potentizer .
Hahnemann Labs to my knowledge does 20.
Not sure about SBL, India, you may contact them about this.
As far as i know, the standard convention followed is 'atleast 10 succussions' for X/C scale potencies.
Thanks
In Germany, most pharmacies follow 10 succussions. Schwabe, Reckweg follow 10 to my knowledge.
Helios a top online supplier does 10 succussions manually(the lower potencies) and the higher potencies with 40 succussions using their high power potentizer .
Hahnemann Labs to my knowledge does 20.
Not sure about SBL, India, you may contact them about this.
As far as i know, the standard convention followed is 'atleast 10 succussions' for X/C scale potencies.
Thanks
♡ maheeru last decade
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