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Question about antidotes

Many times I find myself in places where people have been using things such as vicks vaporub, mentholated snuff tobacco, etc, and there is a strong lingering smell from them. My question is can even being around these smells antidote or is that only if they are inhaled first hand.

Thanks in advance for any info.
[message edited by regbarclay30 on Mon, 22 Dec 2014 19:42:08 GMT]
  regbarclay30 on 2014-12-22
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
They cannot and do not antidote a curative remedy. I have never seen this happen in my 20 years of clinical experience.

If someone has developed side effects (proving symptoms) sometimes strong smells, and coffee, can reduce the reaction. Palliation can also be undone quite easily by certain things.

Cure cannot be antidote this way though. Any apparent curative effect undone by an odour is almost certainly not actually cure, but a palliative effect.
Evocationer 5 years ago
Thanks for the reply.

Are you saying that the correct remedy cannot be antidoted?

In my limited experience as a patient I admit I have never seen a remedy cancelled out but I have experienced temporary shakeups or return of symptoms (which subsided within a few days) from certain known antidotes after what I believe were curative remedies.
regbarclay30 5 years ago
Many homeopaths, including ones Evocationer considers
good, such as Dr. Judyth Ullman, believe these things
can antidote a remedy.

They have patients who had the "curative remedy" stop
working after some time on it, due to dental work, or
coffee, or strong smells.

People disagree on this, it is not cut and dried.
simone717 5 years ago
I agree there do seem to be many viewpoints regarding antidotes ranging from very extreme to very lenient.

Getting back to my original question though, it is quite easy to avoid coffee etc, but unless someone stays at home all day it is hard to avoid strong smells. For example a bit ago I went to friends house who had been applying some sort of vicks vaporub which had left a strong menthol odour in the air. I ran out of the room quickly making some excuse for fear of antidoting. Is this necessary or do these things only antidote if someone applies or imbibes them first hand?
regbarclay30 5 years ago
No I am not saying you cannot antidote, improvement can be *reversed* by certain things, certain actions, certain situations. However, the things you mentioned are not able to do it in most people.

I have worked with aromatherapists for years, acupuncturists, chinese herbalists, both as patients and inside of the clinics I have worked in. Nothing they did ever reversed a well selected remedy in one of my patients. Some of those clinics have been full of strong smells, even what they would call 'medicinal' odours (moxa for example).

My patients have continued to drink coffee, use mint toothpaste, drink herbal teas, and most of the other things that are said to 'antidote' our medicines. I have not seen most of them returning over and over needing repeats of their medicines, not for this reason. There will be other reasons, which we can usually address, and once that is done this stops (despite continuing the previously mentioned activities).

So whatever their experience may be (and I have read all those various articles), my experience is that I have never seen a genuinely curative remedy antidoted in this way. There are a number of homoeopaths I respect but some of their views I disagree with based on my own experience. Unfortunately homoeopaths can be just as biased as anyone else in the community. There is also another explanation for this (which I mention a few paragraphs further on).

So (in my experience) you can only antidote a remedy that is curing you in one of two ways:

1. By taking something that suppresses the symptoms produced by the remedy as part of the healing process (thus blocking the attempt to rebalance the internal imbalance). This unfortunately is quite commonly done by patients, and even (strangely) by homoeopaths themselves. Palliation and suppression are the main causes of 'antidoting'. Because many people poorly understand how cure works, they mistake the palliative/suppressive effect of substances as some kind of general all-encompassing 'neutralizing' effect.

2. By taking something to which you have a specific vulnerability or extreme sensitivity BEFORE this is cured. Of course some sensitivities cannot be removed if the substance is dangerous or poisonous. Harming yourself again, can easily stir up the old state that was removed with homoeopathy, which is NOT antidoting but IS making yourself sick again.

In this category I would put anaesthetic (particularly general), chemotherapy, radiotherapy, powerful psychoactive drugs, in fact any powerful toxic drug which requires the organism to significantly change its behaviour to adapt and survive it. Such adaption depends on the constitution of the patient, and the constitution will have a variety of strategies (sets of symptoms = remedies) it throws out to defend itself.

Constitutional treatment will alter the way the vital force tries to protect itself, and how easily it gets 'stuck' in this protective behaviour after the offending situation has stopped occurring.

The concept of antidoting is a murky one, and different situations have all been mixed up together and given this classification, when in fact people are talking about different things. I think many of the articles published are guilty of this, and has in turn created confusion in lay people who do not understand the complex philosophy behind homoeopathy.

Firstly, if someone was cured, you cannot antidote the remedy, because the remedy is no longer in effect. Cure is not 'maintained' by some remedy mysteriously existing within the person. The remedy has done its work, by causing the vital force to change its position or attitude, which allows symptoms to heal instead of being continuously produced.

Secondly, our medicines are extremely powerful and deep acting, and if a sip of coffee or a whiff of eucalyptus was enough to undo our work, nobody would ever be cured.

I think that brings me to the most obvious rebuttal to the argument that such things antidote homoeopathic treatment, is that some of these things are everywhere in the world, and as the poster here says, it is impossible to avoid them. Everyone would be antidote all the time and cure would be impossible.

I think cure is harder than it used to be, because of the prevalence of some of these things. I don't think a healthy person will fall back into their chronic disease previously cured by homoeopathy by sleeping on an electric blanket, drinking coffee, using menthol, using aromatic insect repellents, using tea tree oil, chap sticks, household cleaning products and so on. Most of my female patients would be returning after a trip to the hairdresser with their old symptoms returning - but they don't. I can't say they never have at all, but generally it has not happened. I certainly would have noticed this (most of my clients have been women, and many of them affluent).

I have had patients cured by Sulphur continue to use chamomile tea, patients cured by Sepia continue to eat salads with vinegar in it, patients cured by Nat-mur use peppermint in various ways.

If this were true, then literally nobody would be cured. Ever. These things are everywhere, clients use them all the time, sometimes exposed to them without even their knowledge.
Evocationer 5 years ago
I do agree with many of the things they say though, from my own experience in clinic over the years. Some of these things are extremely conditional.

1. Coffee (or the associated stimulants like Gurana) in patients where it is being used to counteract fatigue which is part of their chronic state (Palliation or Suppression).

2. Electric blankets if they cause overheating to which the patient is sensitive.

3. Aromatic creams or gels, where they are applied directly to the skin for eruptions and rashes, or some associated surface symptom (suppression or palliation).

4. Aromatic products generally are everywhere now. I haven't seen these do anything to most of my clients. The only ones that have ever mentioned it are those people with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (who are extremely difficult to help). I have never had any of my colleagues mention it either. I don't see my clients relapsing after walking through a department store where they are being exposed to many perfumes and aromatic oils for example. I imagine all my clients would if this were true. I can't even think of a single time I could draw this connection. Many of my clients frequent stores and clinics where aromatherapy is used extensively.

I imagine that some specific patients might react strongly to them, but this is part of their chronic weakness, not a part of the 'power' of these aromatics. I believe blame is being lain in the wrong place.

5. Medications, especially orthodox ones (Antipathic medications) are one of the main culprits for antidoting that I see, and that I could say is almost a sure way of reversing any progress made.

Medications that are given for allopathic reasons (not to counteract symptoms but to treat some hidden inner cause which is usually not the true cause of the disease) won't antidote as such, but may be quite toxic and cause a surge of symptoms by the vital force to protect itself. These symptoms might look similar to the previous chronic symptoms, or they might be new, or even a combination. This because the constitution has particular patterns it uses for defence, unique to the individual.

6. Immunizations won't antidote, but they almost certain will do what other allopathic medications do - stimulate the constitution to express itself with a set of symptoms designed to protect itself.

7. Dental work is a bad one - I see this cause relapses quite often. I think there are several problems here - the anaesthetic, the gas, the antibiotics, and the fact that the mouth seems to be a particularly vulnerable part of the body. Again this is mainly because of the strength of the drugs requiring a defence strategy in the form of symptoms. Many of my clients who have been cured (constitutionally made strong and well) never react permanently to this assault on their vital energy, instead often just producing symptoms temporarily to balance things out. However, I have to agree, this does seem to cause more relapses than most other things.
Evocationer 5 years ago

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