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7 yr old with nocturnal asthma Page 2 of 8
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Magic cure,
I feel like thanking you myself. I heart goes out for the children who suffer from any kind of health problems and complications from wrong medications that follow.
THANK YOU FOR SAVING ANOTHER CHILD..
Shiny,
you made the right choice. Good luck..
I feel like thanking you myself. I heart goes out for the children who suffer from any kind of health problems and complications from wrong medications that follow.
THANK YOU FOR SAVING ANOTHER CHILD..
Shiny,
you made the right choice. Good luck..
himabindu last decade
Hi Shiny,
Okay, now as I had suggested in my earlier post, give him Kali carb 200, single dose at bedtime.
Continue with Arsenic SOS.
Please post back about his condition everyday.
Take care...
Okay, now as I had suggested in my earlier post, give him Kali carb 200, single dose at bedtime.
Continue with Arsenic SOS.
Please post back about his condition everyday.
Take care...
magicure last decade
Dear magic cure
Yesterday,igave him Kali Carb 200 Single dose at night .Slept peacefully woke up just once and coughed only once at that time.Did not have to give him ars.On the whole he had his first good night sleep without using inhalers.I am keeeping my fingers crossed don't want to jinx it.I will keep you posted daily .I have a 20 month old daughter for whom i would again need your precious help but once my son improves or else it will just confuse the matters.
Thanks a lot
BRGDS
Shiny
Yesterday,igave him Kali Carb 200 Single dose at night .Slept peacefully woke up just once and coughed only once at that time.Did not have to give him ars.On the whole he had his first good night sleep without using inhalers.I am keeeping my fingers crossed don't want to jinx it.I will keep you posted daily .I have a 20 month old daughter for whom i would again need your precious help but once my son improves or else it will just confuse the matters.
Thanks a lot
BRGDS
Shiny
shiny last decade
Dear magiccure
Last night was again ok he woke up twice coughed 2-3 times,dry cough,no asthma attack and slept back again.The weather is becoming hot in India and right now we sleep with the fans on at full speed ,maybe that causes dryness in his throat.Should we leave it like that or are you going to advice some remedy,please let me know.I am going to switch on th a/c today let's see if he feels any better.
Regards
Shiny
Last night was again ok he woke up twice coughed 2-3 times,dry cough,no asthma attack and slept back again.The weather is becoming hot in India and right now we sleep with the fans on at full speed ,maybe that causes dryness in his throat.Should we leave it like that or are you going to advice some remedy,please let me know.I am going to switch on th a/c today let's see if he feels any better.
Regards
Shiny
shiny last decade
Hi Shiny,
No other medicine is required right now, just keep on posting about his condition.
Take care...
No other medicine is required right now, just keep on posting about his condition.
Take care...
magicure last decade
Dear magic cure
Again same situation,no attack but coughed 2 or 3 times.Went back to sleep.
I think now we can simultaneously take up my daughter's case.She is going to be 2 yrs in June.Her weight hasn't increased by even a single kg in the past 1 year.Wheat allergy test,urine test,stool test everything was done but came negative.But still there was no improvement.
As my son even she is Thal. minor .She is a picky eater .She has been having repeated attacks of croup,i mean whenever she gets cough it' that croupy cough.She has always been nebulised fr that.Secondly i feel she has a poor digestion.She passes atleast 3 motions a day.
She is smart and cheerful but clingy.Does not let anybody touch her.Takes time to open up with strangers.
Whatever info. you need please let me know.
Thanks & regards
Shiny
Again same situation,no attack but coughed 2 or 3 times.Went back to sleep.
I think now we can simultaneously take up my daughter's case.She is going to be 2 yrs in June.Her weight hasn't increased by even a single kg in the past 1 year.Wheat allergy test,urine test,stool test everything was done but came negative.But still there was no improvement.
As my son even she is Thal. minor .She is a picky eater .She has been having repeated attacks of croup,i mean whenever she gets cough it' that croupy cough.She has always been nebulised fr that.Secondly i feel she has a poor digestion.She passes atleast 3 motions a day.
She is smart and cheerful but clingy.Does not let anybody touch her.Takes time to open up with strangers.
Whatever info. you need please let me know.
Thanks & regards
Shiny
shiny last decade
Hi magic cure
Have a question for my son.I am giving him Kali Carb daily before he goes to bed.I need to clarify if it needs to be given daily or had to be given just once.
You haven't been replying to my posts.I am depending just on you.So please help.
My son again coughed 2-3 times at night ,no aattack though but dry cough .
Regards
Shiny
Have a question for my son.I am giving him Kali Carb daily before he goes to bed.I need to clarify if it needs to be given daily or had to be given just once.
You haven't been replying to my posts.I am depending just on you.So please help.
My son again coughed 2-3 times at night ,no aattack though but dry cough .
Regards
Shiny
shiny last decade
Hi Shiny,
I am sorry for not replying yesterday.
Stop giving Kali Carb to your son.
Lets observe its effect now. Arsenic can be given SOS.
About your daughter, I would be needing all the details in order to suggest her a remedy. So please fill out the same questionnaire for her and post it here. We can then procede from there.
Take care...
I am sorry for not replying yesterday.
Stop giving Kali Carb to your son.
Lets observe its effect now. Arsenic can be given SOS.
About your daughter, I would be needing all the details in order to suggest her a remedy. So please fill out the same questionnaire for her and post it here. We can then procede from there.
Take care...
magicure last decade
Dear magic cure
Thanks fr replying,I'll keep you posted regularly.I can't understand why cough's at night.What could be the reason.And also we haven't dealt with his skin problem(urticaria).
Brgds
Shiny
Thanks fr replying,I'll keep you posted regularly.I can't understand why cough's at night.What could be the reason.And also we haven't dealt with his skin problem(urticaria).
Brgds
Shiny
shiny last decade
Dear magiccure
Another bad night.My son woke up at 1:00 a.m coughing.Dry,deep,spasmodic cough.Gave him ars but he just wouldn't stop.Couldn't wait fr another 15 min to give him the second dose because he coughs so loudly and forcefully that it scares me so i just gave him asthalin and he slept peacefully.So this was the first night without Kali carb.Even after taking Kali he use to cough but just 2-3 small coughs and then he would go back to sleep.So i don't know what's happening here.Please help asap.
Brgds
Shiny
Another bad night.My son woke up at 1:00 a.m coughing.Dry,deep,spasmodic cough.Gave him ars but he just wouldn't stop.Couldn't wait fr another 15 min to give him the second dose because he coughs so loudly and forcefully that it scares me so i just gave him asthalin and he slept peacefully.So this was the first night without Kali carb.Even after taking Kali he use to cough but just 2-3 small coughs and then he would go back to sleep.So i don't know what's happening here.Please help asap.
Brgds
Shiny
shiny last decade
Dear magic cure
I guess because of the time diff. it takes a day for you to reply to my mails.My son is coughing a lot since evening,he is wheezing also.Have already given him ars twice at an interval of 15 min. will wait if he does not improve will give him asthalin or else ars ever 3-4 hrs till he improves as you had suggested.What should be done next.I don't think Kali carb worked that much.Please reply asap.
Thanks in advance.
Will report back
Shiny
I guess because of the time diff. it takes a day for you to reply to my mails.My son is coughing a lot since evening,he is wheezing also.Have already given him ars twice at an interval of 15 min. will wait if he does not improve will give him asthalin or else ars ever 3-4 hrs till he improves as you had suggested.What should be done next.I don't think Kali carb worked that much.Please reply asap.
Thanks in advance.
Will report back
Shiny
shiny last decade
Hi Shiny,
First of all, let me tell you that this treatment is going to take some time. This is a chronic disease, and we must have patience to treat it.
So please dont jump to any conclusions yet, as far as action of remedies is concerned. We migt have to change potency/repetition to suit your son, and this may take some time. So please be patient. The same applies to urticaria. Both these conditions will definitely get better in a couple of months.
Now, since his cough is aggravated after stopping Kali carb, please give him SINGLE DOSE (4-5 pills) of Kali carb TOMORROW NIGHT and post back about his condition.
We will decide about the further course of action depending on his response to Kali.
Take care...
First of all, let me tell you that this treatment is going to take some time. This is a chronic disease, and we must have patience to treat it.
So please dont jump to any conclusions yet, as far as action of remedies is concerned. We migt have to change potency/repetition to suit your son, and this may take some time. So please be patient. The same applies to urticaria. Both these conditions will definitely get better in a couple of months.
Now, since his cough is aggravated after stopping Kali carb, please give him SINGLE DOSE (4-5 pills) of Kali carb TOMORROW NIGHT and post back about his condition.
We will decide about the further course of action depending on his response to Kali.
Take care...
magicure last decade
Dear magiccure
Thanks fr replying,i guess i just panicked .After giving him ars twice within a gap of 15 min. he did feel little better but not completely so had to give him asthalin(sos)after which he was ok.Actually there is another problem which he often faces i.e loss of voice /hoarseness.He cannot scream loudly and 4 times a week he goes fr karate classes where he has to say the commands loudly, which makes him loose his voice partially or i could call it hoarseness ,this situation also aggravates cough and could precipitate asthma attack ,so that is what happened yesterday.His voice was already hoarse and to add up to it he ate a candy which was rather sour and immidiately he started coughing and wheezing.Cough is ok fr now but he is still sneezing a lot since morning.As suggested i would again give Kali Carb and report back.I can't thank you enough fr being there.
Brgds
Shiny
Thanks fr replying,i guess i just panicked .After giving him ars twice within a gap of 15 min. he did feel little better but not completely so had to give him asthalin(sos)after which he was ok.Actually there is another problem which he often faces i.e loss of voice /hoarseness.He cannot scream loudly and 4 times a week he goes fr karate classes where he has to say the commands loudly, which makes him loose his voice partially or i could call it hoarseness ,this situation also aggravates cough and could precipitate asthma attack ,so that is what happened yesterday.His voice was already hoarse and to add up to it he ate a candy which was rather sour and immidiately he started coughing and wheezing.Cough is ok fr now but he is still sneezing a lot since morning.As suggested i would again give Kali Carb and report back.I can't thank you enough fr being there.
Brgds
Shiny
shiny last decade
Dear magic cure
Just a thought,though you would be the best judge.please don't think that i am tring to contradict, don't get me wrong.What would be your opinion on phosphorous.Just a thought as i had mentioned.
Shiny
Just a thought,though you would be the best judge.please don't think that i am tring to contradict, don't get me wrong.What would be your opinion on phosphorous.Just a thought as i had mentioned.
Shiny
shiny last decade
To Shiny
I am alerted by email every time a new post is made on this thread and I can see that the treatment so far with various remedies has not resulted in any easing of your son's Asthma.
You may remember that I was the first to respond to your post and I still believe that the remedy that I suggested Nat Sulph 6c to be taken in the Split Dose can help your son. I have used it in the case of many patients and feel that it should help to cure your son who has been suffering enough so far.
I shall copy the post that I made below:
Get a 500ml bottle of Spring Water from your nearest supermarket.
Pour out 100ml
Drop in 3 pellets or 1-2 drops of liquid Nat Sulph 6c into the 400ml water
Cap the bottle tightly and succuss it 4-6 times by shaking the bottle in your hand to aerate the water.
Pour out 1 teaspoonful of the potentized remedy into half a cup of water from another bottle of the same water and stir it gently.
Sip 1 teaspoonful of the water from the cup just once daily.
You will have to stop all other medication if you wish to start on this therapy.
This remedy should be taken daily for some time in the future and you may like to know that I have many instances of adults who were chronic sufferers from Asthma for many years who do not use the remedy any more after about 4 months on this therapy. Others who were not so chronic react favourably in a few days and only use the remedy if and when necessary.
The remedy that I have used when the patient is having an acute attack and is straining for breath is Ars Alb 200c. This remedy is taken dry and just 4 globules will suffice for a dose which may only be taken just once daily when the patient is gasping for breath. This usually clears the lungs and opens up the airways in under 20 minutes.
Report response in a week as this remedy has to be monitored in use regularly.
I might mention here that in the case of your son who seems to have a chronic case of Asthma it may be necessary to take the dose direct from the bottle instead of using the Split dose which is taken from the cup of water into which the teaspoonful from the bottle is stirred.
If you decide to use this simple remedy you may start with the split dose and if it does not help you can then change over to the teaspoonful from the bottle directly.
Please follow the instructions above precisely and if you decide to use the Nat Sulph 6c it is understood that you must stop all other medication.
I am alerted by email every time a new post is made on this thread and I can see that the treatment so far with various remedies has not resulted in any easing of your son's Asthma.
You may remember that I was the first to respond to your post and I still believe that the remedy that I suggested Nat Sulph 6c to be taken in the Split Dose can help your son. I have used it in the case of many patients and feel that it should help to cure your son who has been suffering enough so far.
I shall copy the post that I made below:
Get a 500ml bottle of Spring Water from your nearest supermarket.
Pour out 100ml
Drop in 3 pellets or 1-2 drops of liquid Nat Sulph 6c into the 400ml water
Cap the bottle tightly and succuss it 4-6 times by shaking the bottle in your hand to aerate the water.
Pour out 1 teaspoonful of the potentized remedy into half a cup of water from another bottle of the same water and stir it gently.
Sip 1 teaspoonful of the water from the cup just once daily.
You will have to stop all other medication if you wish to start on this therapy.
This remedy should be taken daily for some time in the future and you may like to know that I have many instances of adults who were chronic sufferers from Asthma for many years who do not use the remedy any more after about 4 months on this therapy. Others who were not so chronic react favourably in a few days and only use the remedy if and when necessary.
The remedy that I have used when the patient is having an acute attack and is straining for breath is Ars Alb 200c. This remedy is taken dry and just 4 globules will suffice for a dose which may only be taken just once daily when the patient is gasping for breath. This usually clears the lungs and opens up the airways in under 20 minutes.
Report response in a week as this remedy has to be monitored in use regularly.
I might mention here that in the case of your son who seems to have a chronic case of Asthma it may be necessary to take the dose direct from the bottle instead of using the Split dose which is taken from the cup of water into which the teaspoonful from the bottle is stirred.
If you decide to use this simple remedy you may start with the split dose and if it does not help you can then change over to the teaspoonful from the bottle directly.
Please follow the instructions above precisely and if you decide to use the Nat Sulph 6c it is understood that you must stop all other medication.
♡ Joe De Livera last decade
i would not advocate the idea of using nat sulph
your son is showing good results with the treatment that we have started, and he will continue to improve.
giving nat sulph 6c for every asthma patient on earth is not homoeopathy. there is something called as indivisualisation, which is the basic principle of this science.
your son is showing good results with the treatment that we have started, and he will continue to improve.
giving nat sulph 6c for every asthma patient on earth is not homoeopathy. there is something called as indivisualisation, which is the basic principle of this science.
magicure last decade
dear magic cure
i am not going to use nat sulp.If i wanted to use this remedy i would have done that long before,i am sticking with your plan of action,but i needed your opinion on phosphorous.
shiny
i am not going to use nat sulp.If i wanted to use this remedy i would have done that long before,i am sticking with your plan of action,but i needed your opinion on phosphorous.
shiny
shiny last decade
Hi Shiny,
Phosphorus can be considered as an option, but, should NOT be given now. Since most of his current symptoms are covered by arsenic, and he is getting relief from Arsenic, lets continue with the same for the time being.
What made you thought of Phosphorus?
Phosphorus can be considered as an option, but, should NOT be given now. Since most of his current symptoms are covered by arsenic, and he is getting relief from Arsenic, lets continue with the same for the time being.
What made you thought of Phosphorus?
magicure last decade
Dear magic cure
Last night was pretty bad.Gave him Kali Carb at 9:00 P.M ,he woke up at 10:00 P.m ,coughed 2-3 times then slept again.Then 12:08 a.m he woke up coughing and wheezinh which was pretty audible.Gave him ars alb once ,he immidiately stopped coughing but he was wheezing till the next half an hour,so i gave him asthalin.Yesterday kali carb was not of much help i thought.
I had put his symptoms in one of the homeopathic Remedy Finder and they had suggested phosphorous so i thought i'll check with you.
So what do you suggest.Ars did help in stopping him fro coughing but he was still very uncomfortable and was wheezing pretty loudly.
Brgds
Shiny
Last night was pretty bad.Gave him Kali Carb at 9:00 P.M ,he woke up at 10:00 P.m ,coughed 2-3 times then slept again.Then 12:08 a.m he woke up coughing and wheezinh which was pretty audible.Gave him ars alb once ,he immidiately stopped coughing but he was wheezing till the next half an hour,so i gave him asthalin.Yesterday kali carb was not of much help i thought.
I had put his symptoms in one of the homeopathic Remedy Finder and they had suggested phosphorous so i thought i'll check with you.
So what do you suggest.Ars did help in stopping him fro coughing but he was still very uncomfortable and was wheezing pretty loudly.
Brgds
Shiny
shiny last decade
Hi Shiny,
I need more information regarding the acute attack. I need to analyze WHY Arsenic is not helping now, when it did at the beginning. So plaese describe his acute asthmatic attack. Here are a few guiding points:
1. Which is the FIRST symptom which leads to the acute attack? And then how does it progress to a full blown attack? (write all the symptoms one by one in a chronological manner, write from onset of the attack)
2. How is his thirst affected during this attack? (more/less thirsty)
3. Does he feel weak/tired/chilly during the attack? Does he perspire? If yes, how much? where? cold/hot?
4. What does he prefer to do during an acute attack? (sit up/walk/fanning/likes more covering....)What makes his acute symptoms better and worse?
5. Are there any accompanying symptoms along with cough & wheezing? (like headache/fever/chills etc...)
I need more information regarding the acute attack. I need to analyze WHY Arsenic is not helping now, when it did at the beginning. So plaese describe his acute asthmatic attack. Here are a few guiding points:
1. Which is the FIRST symptom which leads to the acute attack? And then how does it progress to a full blown attack? (write all the symptoms one by one in a chronological manner, write from onset of the attack)
2. How is his thirst affected during this attack? (more/less thirsty)
3. Does he feel weak/tired/chilly during the attack? Does he perspire? If yes, how much? where? cold/hot?
4. What does he prefer to do during an acute attack? (sit up/walk/fanning/likes more covering....)What makes his acute symptoms better and worse?
5. Are there any accompanying symptoms along with cough & wheezing? (like headache/fever/chills etc...)
magicure last decade
Dear magic cure
Yesterday night was bad again.Last night i gave him ars before going to bed ,thinking that it might prevent the midnight attack.He again woke up coughing,could feel little loss of voice while coughing and he was slightly wheeze.Gave him ars waited fr 15 min. without any results so had to give him asthalin.
Now coming to your questions,i'll try an answere them in the best possible way.
1. Which is the FIRST symptom which leads to the acute attack? And then how does it progress to a full blown attack? (write all the symptoms one by one in a chronological manner, write from onset of the attack).
a)Sleeps by 9:30 p.m nicely without any symptom,infact throughout the day he is absolutely fine.Suddenly after midnight he will start coughing.
b)First symptom is cough and just cough ,no other symptom prior to that.He will intially cough once,then after say 10 sec. he will cough more than the first time and then gradually the coughing will increase reducing the time span.
c)Then along with coughing i can hear wheezing .One puff of asthalin given makes him sleep peacefully again.
d)But like things are going and his symptoms do not come under control then he will start coughing in the morning also as he did today.Gave him ars again in the morning but it is not helping so had to resort to asthalin.
2. How is his thirst affected during this attack? (more/less thirsty).Can't say because he is not even awake during the attack.He has never asked fr water.If i tell him that you were coughing at night and i had to give you asthalin (which is a struggle again because he pushes the spacer away,he is soo sleepy at night)then he just laughs and says he doesn't remember anything.
3. Does he feel weak/tired/chilly during the attack? Does he perspire? If yes, how much? where? cold/hot?
He feels tired yes.Constitutionally also he is very thin and tall fr his age.Considering the amount of food he eats he is fairly skinny.Body cannot handle to much stress.He prespires only on scalp and behind the neck and no where else.Feels hot i guess though not very sure abt this.
4. What does he prefer to do during an acute attack? (sit up/walk/fanning/likes more covering....)What makes his acute symptoms better and worse?
If you talk about nocturnal attack then i can't say much because he is always asleep.He will keep on coughing with his eyes closed.But otherwise if it's a day and night attack then he feels better by sitting ,walking ,keeping him engaged ,open air lying certainly makes it worse and also warm rooms.
5. Are there any accompanying symptoms along with cough & wheezing? (like headache/fever/chills etc...)
No accompanying symptoms.Only coughing and wheezing.
Brgds
Shiny
Yesterday night was bad again.Last night i gave him ars before going to bed ,thinking that it might prevent the midnight attack.He again woke up coughing,could feel little loss of voice while coughing and he was slightly wheeze.Gave him ars waited fr 15 min. without any results so had to give him asthalin.
Now coming to your questions,i'll try an answere them in the best possible way.
1. Which is the FIRST symptom which leads to the acute attack? And then how does it progress to a full blown attack? (write all the symptoms one by one in a chronological manner, write from onset of the attack).
a)Sleeps by 9:30 p.m nicely without any symptom,infact throughout the day he is absolutely fine.Suddenly after midnight he will start coughing.
b)First symptom is cough and just cough ,no other symptom prior to that.He will intially cough once,then after say 10 sec. he will cough more than the first time and then gradually the coughing will increase reducing the time span.
c)Then along with coughing i can hear wheezing .One puff of asthalin given makes him sleep peacefully again.
d)But like things are going and his symptoms do not come under control then he will start coughing in the morning also as he did today.Gave him ars again in the morning but it is not helping so had to resort to asthalin.
2. How is his thirst affected during this attack? (more/less thirsty).Can't say because he is not even awake during the attack.He has never asked fr water.If i tell him that you were coughing at night and i had to give you asthalin (which is a struggle again because he pushes the spacer away,he is soo sleepy at night)then he just laughs and says he doesn't remember anything.
3. Does he feel weak/tired/chilly during the attack? Does he perspire? If yes, how much? where? cold/hot?
He feels tired yes.Constitutionally also he is very thin and tall fr his age.Considering the amount of food he eats he is fairly skinny.Body cannot handle to much stress.He prespires only on scalp and behind the neck and no where else.Feels hot i guess though not very sure abt this.
4. What does he prefer to do during an acute attack? (sit up/walk/fanning/likes more covering....)What makes his acute symptoms better and worse?
If you talk about nocturnal attack then i can't say much because he is always asleep.He will keep on coughing with his eyes closed.But otherwise if it's a day and night attack then he feels better by sitting ,walking ,keeping him engaged ,open air lying certainly makes it worse and also warm rooms.
5. Are there any accompanying symptoms along with cough & wheezing? (like headache/fever/chills etc...)
No accompanying symptoms.Only coughing and wheezing.
Brgds
Shiny
shiny last decade
Dear magic cure
Since i did not get any response from you and he was not responding to the medicines i had to again give him steroid inhaler.This time again along with nocturnal asthma he was facing problem of loss of voice which was causing him to cough again and again.Please help asap.
Brgds
Shiny
Since i did not get any response from you and he was not responding to the medicines i had to again give him steroid inhaler.This time again along with nocturnal asthma he was facing problem of loss of voice which was causing him to cough again and again.Please help asap.
Brgds
Shiny
shiny last decade
Magic cure
Another question,do you think we should try giving him ars alb 30 (2-3) times a day.
Brgds
Shiny
Another question,do you think we should try giving him ars alb 30 (2-3) times a day.
Brgds
Shiny
shiny last decade
I'm not trying to step on toes but thought I would suggest CINA for your consideration, magic cure.
Coughing at night (nocturnal asthma), uticaria, and skinny despite eating well. Also baby girl not growing...with cough as well.
Lastly, consider what is son sleeping on at night? Does he use pillow? Bed clothes? Something in his room? Why only at night?
My daughter experienced same symptoms and CINA did the trick. Can be worms...
But I am less experienced and don't want to interrupt good progress with magic cure... just thought I would make suggestion for consideration as to why re-experiencing symptoms...
Coughing at night (nocturnal asthma), uticaria, and skinny despite eating well. Also baby girl not growing...with cough as well.
Lastly, consider what is son sleeping on at night? Does he use pillow? Bed clothes? Something in his room? Why only at night?
My daughter experienced same symptoms and CINA did the trick. Can be worms...
But I am less experienced and don't want to interrupt good progress with magic cure... just thought I would make suggestion for consideration as to why re-experiencing symptoms...
busymominme last decade
Hi Shiny,
Get Drosera Rotundifolia 200C, and give 4-5 pills of it,if he gets acute asthmatic attack at night. You can repeat another dose every 10 minutes if needed.
Post back about his condition, I will check the thread again tomorrow.
take care...
Get Drosera Rotundifolia 200C, and give 4-5 pills of it,if he gets acute asthmatic attack at night. You can repeat another dose every 10 minutes if needed.
Post back about his condition, I will check the thread again tomorrow.
take care...
magicure last decade
shiny last decade
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