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question about carcinosin Page 2 of 4

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If you feel much worse on a remedy, or if you have any new symptoms that you've never had before, you should tell your homeopath right away.
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade
The idea of the victim in Carcinosin is interesting, and needs to be understood from the perspective of the remedy picture.

Carcinosin is Cancer - it is a remedy made from cancerous tissue, traditionally from the breast but there are mulitple versions of this remedy made from different types of cancers.

The feeling of Cancer is Invasion. Something gets inside your borders, your boundaries, and it attacks from the inside. Carcinosin people are often attacked from within and must fight the battle for their survival inside of their defences, which makes the struggle a desperate one.

Carcinosin people often experience abuse and domination at the hands of others, prescisely because they lose their ability to protect themselves. It is usually someone they love or trust (someone on the inside) and this person abuses that position.

Their response to this domination helps to define the remedy - they become perfectionists. Only by doing everything exactly right, only by having everything in the right place, by doing everything perfectly without flaw or mistake, can they survive. This in turn creates TREMENDOUS anxiety in them, and almost all of my Carc patients have been extraordinarily anxious (even if that is well-disguised).

I have to say I haven't often seen the Martyr side of Carcinosin, perhaps 2 or 3 times, so I am not sure that is a central theme to the remedy. When I have seen it, the devotion they show has been more a part of their Perfectionism rather than Selflessness.
 
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
'Generally, Carc. patients will work themselves self-lessly for others, such as nursing sick relatives.'

well, i've done that, though i don't see it as self-less because i can't imagine doing nothing when you can offer some small comfort to someone you love. naturally i took care of my kids when they were sick, and i sat at the bedside of dying family members. how could anyone abandon someone at a time like that?

'Other Carc. symptoms are a craving for chocolate, and a love of animals.'

very true :)

'If you feel much worse on a remedy, or if you have any new symptoms that you've never had before'

so far i'm not seeing any changes at all, good or bad. i've been wondering if i could have accidentally antidoted it, but can't think how.
 
samikirk last decade
Based on the symptoms you've described I think Carc. is very appropriate in your case.

If you don't have any new symptoms, then you are probably fine. Talk to your homeopath if you think you've antidoted it.

My experience is that anti-dotes are rare.
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade
Yes I agree, I rarely ever see antidoting. It does happen occasionally - for instance Anethesthetic seems to cause relapse in many patients.

What I do see, though, are some homoeopaths claiming their incorrect prescriptions do not work because of something the patient is doing (like cleaning their teeth or something equally ridiculous). For instance Palliation tends to fall apart quite quickly.

The effect of the simillimum is almost impossible to reverse. Most remedies are far more powerful than material doses of other things.
 
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
thanks to both of you; you have really put my mind at ease.

my homeopath has never said much about antidoting, just to avoid coffee, which i rarely drink anyway, but i have heard a lot of people talking about it, so i was starting to wonder.

maybe i'm being a bit impatient? after feeling so awful for so long, i find waiting for signs of improvement really hard to do.
 
samikirk last decade
For the most part, I expect to see aggravation within the first 1-3 days, peaking at about 3-5 days. Improvement generally can be seen at about 6-8 days, although the amount of improvement is quite variable. At 3 weeks if there is no obvious improvement I will usually be reassessing the case to see if the potency or dosage was incorrect, although I am often in doubt about the remedy selection.

If there is no aggravation in those first few days I will always get the patient to take a second dose, as it appears some patients are able to resist the first dose (not sensitive, strong disease state, too low potency). I may even get them to do a third dose, although in my experience no reaction after the second dose does not bode well for the remedy choice.
 
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
'If there is no aggravation in those first few days I will always get the patient to take a second dose'

i was given Carc 1M; would you repeat the same potentcy or change it? i will be talking to my homeopath hopefully in a few days, and i'd want to ask her about repeating if i continue to experience no changes that i'm aware of. (my condition is a study in contradictions, with many fluctuations and cycling of symptoms, so it's really hard to tell what's what.

also, how often can a remedy be repeated before you're able to tell if it's just slow to work or if it's the wrong one?

thnks so much!

sami
 
samikirk last decade
'traditionally from the breast but there are mulitple versions of this remedy made from different types of cancers.'

i had heard that it can come from different (cancerous) sources. can it make a difference which version a person takes?

'The feeling of Cancer is Invasion.'

yes.

'Carcinosin people are often attacked from within and must fight the battle for their survival inside of their defences, which makes the struggle a desperate one.'

i don't quite understand the context of that statement.

'Carcinosin people often experience abuse and domination at the hands of others, prescisely because they lose their ability to protect themselves.'

yes.

'It is usually someone they love or trust (someone on the inside) and this person abuses that position.'

yes.

'Their response to this domination helps to define the remedy - they become perfectionists.'

i'm not sure i could say i have ever been a perfectionist. when i was still able, i would apply myself to specific tasks or aspects of my life in a very exacting way, but definitely not across the board, which is as well, given that i'm so limited now in what i can do (though i must admit a dirty or untidy living environment can get more than a little crazy-making).

'Only by doing everything exactly right, only by having everything in the right place, by doing everything perfectly without flaw or mistake, can they survive.'

that certainly defines my growing-up years and marriage; the consequences of failure were extremely unpleasant when not outright terrifying.

'This in turn creates TREMENDOUS anxiety in them, and almost all of my Carc patients have been extraordinarily anxious (even if that is well-disguised)'

yes, that resonates.

'I have to say I haven't often seen the Martyr side of Carcinosin'

if i can interpret that word (Martyr) in its most typical context, i'd have to say definitely not.

'the devotion they show has been more a part of their Perfectionism rather than Selflessness.'

i don't know that it's selflessness or perfectionism; i just can't make myself sit by when someone i love is suffering. when they hurt, so do i.
 
samikirk last decade
If I've given a dose and the patient feels an improvement, I never give another dose! There is no reason to aggravate a patient. My perspective is that an aggravation/prooving symptom is a sign that I've given a higher dose than I should have. I also generally use lower doses than most.

I consider a 1M to be a extremely high dose. I never give the 1M unless the patient has prooven to be unresponsive to many lower potencies.

Sami, Your remedy seems to be correct. The dose seems to be correct too! I think you are best to leave well enough alone unless there are any new symptoms. What you should be looking for is an improved feeling of well-being, and the improvement of any symptoms you've had for a long time.
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade
If I had confidence in the remedy I would repeat no matter what the potency. I always speak to the patient before doing this to make sure that nothing related to the remedy is happening.

I rarely find a person that cannot feel the correct remedy working, although if they are not trained to look for the signs they might not realize it (thus my job to assess it with them).

However, one dose may not be enough, so unless there are pressing reasons not to do so, I always redose at least once more, sometime with more succussions of the bottle or less water to dilute it in, in order to make the dose stronger.

I almost never have to repeat 3 times to see an effect on a particular potency. That isn't to say that some patients don't need many doses to cure (although again I rarely see this in practice) but that in order to determine that the medicine is having an effect of some sort, it should appear early on.

However repeating of the dose should be done with supervision until such time as you are experienced enough either with homoeopathic reactions generally, or you understand your own reactions well enough to know what is what.
 
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
This is one of the reasons that I prefer the LMs. Generally, there is less aggravation.
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade
Strangely enough, I have seen just as much aggravation on LM's as on Centesimal potencies. My mentor in college only used LMs and consequently I used them exclusively throughout my years in student clinic. I have seen terrible aggravations using them just as I would any other potency scale though, which was a surprise to me.

However, there is a definite difference in the amount of time it takes for that aggravation to occur. While with a Centismal remedy one single dose can produce a large aggravation, it appears that you need approximately 3-5 times as many doses to produce this same level of aggravation with an LM. Which of course is in line with our understanding of the difference in the way they are made - they are more dilute. This of course depended on which LM you were using too, 0/1 has a much higher threshold for aggravation than 0/6 for instance.

However there are many situations in which I have found them useful - you can take more doses, and for those people with pathologies especially tissue changes, this is vital to producing cure. Those people on daily suppressive medications can benefit from the frequent dosing as well, as can those people using recreational drugs every day. Also those people who are used to daily dosing will sometimes prefer it, simply out of habit (and then you get less arguments and doubts from them).

However when I came out into practice on my own, I tended to find that people needed to stay on LMs much longer than I liked. Treatment seemed to be extended by many months. I remember treating a patient with Nux-vomica - we had got to 0/13 and he still wasn't cured (although much better).It was 13 months after start of treatment (basically we raised the potency every month or so). I gave him one dose of Nux-vomica 10M (as an experiment) and he suffered a larger aggravation, and was cured. He never needed treatment again.

It was a profound change in my understanding of the potencies and what we were aiming for. I immediately began to change all my patients back over to centesimals, and this experience was repeated many times - not in every case however. I began to realize that for many people, avoiding the aggravation actually hindered their cure (or at least slowed it).

It was a quandry - yes the LM's produced a smoother change, but it seemed to be prolonging the process. Centesimals were harsher, and yet change happened quickly and made them independent of my care.

So now I assess each case for their suitablity for either potency scale. If I use centesimal potencies I use a high level of dilution as per the instructions in the Organon (prior to the introduction of the LM's in the 6th edition) in order to moderate the aggravation, but also to allow enough to give the Vital Force that push it needs to push back towards balance (cure).
 
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
I don't know what to say. I've never had to use a LM13, or a 10M!

Hahnemann said that the LMs cure in 1/2 to 1/4th the time, and that's been my experience. I've moved cases that have spent years on Cs with good improvement to LMs and seen cases improve much more rapidly than before.

I've never seen a case where an aggravation helped a case, and Hahnemann never said anything of the kind.
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade
I respect everyone that uses homeopathy for the good of patients. This includes so-called low persribers, and high perscribers, Kentiens, classical perscribers, and all the other kinds.

My own opinion however is that any aggravation is counter-productive to the patient, and the result of giving too much medicine when the current dose was good, or the use of an inappropriate medicine.
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade
I just want to be clear that I never *try* to create aggravation, and in fact I am careful to reduce the size of a dose down to the smallest amount possible to create some kind of change. Many patients are surprised how much I will ask them to dilute their remedy (1 drop in a full cup of water at least, sometimes a teaspoon taken out of that cup into another, or again into another and so on).

And perhaps I have created some confusion about the point that I was trying to make. Strong aggravation is always a sign that a dose is too large. Small aggravations however are unavoidable, as the artifical disease must always be stronger than the natural disease. Since it is stronger, it will create the illusion that the patient's disease has worsened - hopefully if the dose was correctly individualized for them it will be minior. (Aph 156-161)

Understanding that aggravation is the beginning of cure is important, since we must school our patients not to suppress such reactions with medication or other remedies.

If aggravation doesn't occur (and I will look for the most subtle signs of aggravation) then I never see cure follow. That aggravation should be small but will be there. For me aggravation followed by improvement helps to differentiate the reaction from palliation, where you get improvement followed by aggravation.
 
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
From my perspective, the ideal aggravation is so tiny that the patient doesn't notice it at all.
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade
despite the fact that i only understand maybe 1/4 of it, this is a fascinating conversation; i had no idea there were different schools of thought when it comes to the practice of homeopathy. also very interesting and helpful to learn the 'vocabulary', as it were. the unititiated (such as myself) often have no idea what to expect when they first decide to consult a homeopath. in a small town especially, i think, most of us choose a homeopath who has a good reputation. beyond that, we're making a leap of faith.

meanwhile ...

i logged on this morning to report that i've just had the best night of sleep in so long i can't remember the last time.

i'm a bit light-headed, and i'm stiff and sore, especially my lower back, which is only to be expected given the accumulated effect of many injuries and now arthritis, but that's nothing compared to the bliss of sleeping for nearly 8 hours without frequent waking, restlessness, or nightmares (typically 'anxiety dreams') ... and then lying in bed dozing for another two hours without the usual surge of adrenaline or burst of anxiety which typically drives me to my feet within seconds of waking.

it feels so wonderful i find myself close to tears of gratitude.

i can't say i feel 'refreshed' (that would take many more nights of this quality of sleep), but for the moment i'm very happy to simply marvel at and be grateful for the novelty of the experience.

it COULD be a 'one off' because i've been so utterly exhausted for so long, but i've already made note in my journal of the details (to report to my homeopath) and will wait to see what happens next. needless to say, i hope this is a sign of improvement.

thanks again!
 
samikirk last decade
'i've just had the best night of sleep in so long i can't remember the last time.'

This is a good sign, as Carc. often cures insomnia and sleep irregularities. Everything you've said indicates that you are doing very well on your remedy.
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade
'This is a good sign, as Carc. often cures insomnia and sleep irregularities.'

either that had escaped my notice or i'd forgotten. now that i've had this night of such wonderful, utterly relaxed (!) sleep, it's clear to me that i've spent most of my life in a state of sleep deprivation, which in and of itself would explain a lot. to be able to sleep like that, even on a semi-regular basis, would be pure joy.

'Everything you've said indicates that you are doing very well on your remedy.'

oh i hope so! it's difficult after so long to remain even cautiously optimistic, but your comments are very encouraging.

receiving informed feedback (and clearer understanding) is remarkably helpful; i'd spend a great deal of time wandering around in my own head otherwise, and only end up more confused than when i began :)

again, my thanks!

sami
 
samikirk last decade
so many questions, it's almost embarassing. just one more for now, though, i hope.

can a person experience improvement and aggravation at the same time?
 
samikirk last decade
It's complicated. You haven't said anything that indicates an aggravation of any kind.

Your remedy seems to be working great, so I'd just wait.

Do you remember what remedies you've used before the Carc?
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade
My apologies if I am making this all too complicated - I (obviously) do enjoy discussing homoeopathic philosophy with other experienced homoeopaths.

Jewish I appreciate your willingness to discuss these things with me - I always feel that without peers to challenge our thoughts, those thoughts can go to very strange places (not always to the benefit of our patients).
 
brisbanehomoeopath last decade
Thanks. Based on your comments I'm sure you help many patients.

I must admit that I'm not very fond of the systems school, especially Sankaran's reworking of the miasms. I've seen some patients given unproductive aggravations caused by the M's and prescriptions that ignored obvious miasmatic indications. - JH

http://simillimum.com/education/little-library/homoeopathic-...
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade
'You haven't said anything that indicates an aggravation of any kind.'

true enough; i hadn't realized that til just now.
i was wondering because while my sleep was dramatically different from what i'm used to, and my perpetual headache has eased quite a bit, a couple of my other symptoms have been slightly worse today.

i've used low potentcy remedies for acute conditions or symptoms (e.g. for IBS flares), but in terms of high-potentcy remedies, about three years ago i was given Arnica 1M to try and repair some of the damage done by a vast number of injuries accumulated over the years, especially from when i was younger and very active in sport and in training horses. i found the process to be truly remarkable: it was as if i could feel the remedy moving backward through time. there'd be sensations i can't really describe, first in one place and then another, each one reaching farther back in time. at one point, my coccyx, which hadn't bothered me in over 40 years, began to ache, and then after a couple of days, all discomfort was gone. now i can press on it without so much as a twinge. and so it was for most of my injuries; either complete relief or a significant reduction.

it was wonderful :)

'I (obviously) do enjoy discussing homoeopathic philosophy with other experienced homoeopaths.'

and i enjoy 'listening in'. there is (of course) much that i don't understand, but everything i do manage to learn is more than i knew before, and i've always loved learning, especially about healing, so this is a real treat for me. being able to better understand homeopathy, how a remedy is selected, the various approaches by practioners, and so on, is absolutely fascinating.

thanks for letting me sit in on the conversation :)
 
samikirk last decade
What other remedies have you used besides Arnica?

I wouldn't worry about symptoms unless they've gone on for several days. Then, you should talk to your homeopath about them.
 
Homeopathy International 1 last decade

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Information given in this forum is given by way of exchange of views only, and those views are not necessarily those of ABC Homeopathy. It is not to be treated as a medical diagnosis or prescription, and should not be used as a substitute for a consultation with a qualified homeopath or physician. It is possible that advice given here may be dangerous, and you should make your own checks that it is safe. If symptoms persist, seek professional medical attention. Bear in mind that even minor symptoms can be a sign of a more serious underlying condition, and a timely diagnosis by your doctor could save your life.