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The ABC Homeopathy Forum

dose and potency

Dear friends

i see a lot of you are giving the wrong advice when prescribing remedies. One or three doses is simply not enough! these are the methods from the late doctor hahnehmanns 4th edition book - please refer to the 6th version. He has clearly stated that homeopathy doses should be given starting with a low potency and then increased gradually to higher doses. it is not enough to simply give a patient 3 doses for 2 days and then to tell them to leave off the medicine. Please apply common sense. The problem will always come back - you cannot fix a long term problem with just 1 -2 tablets.

kind regards
 
  santinosharma on 2012-05-16
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
That is the instructions for using the LM potencies, not the centesimal potencies. LM potencies are designed to allow more frequent dosing, which may be necessary for those patients who are undergoing daily suppression of their symptoms with orthodox medication, or who have extensive tissue changes.

The Centesimal potencies work differently. For one thing they are stronger, so they are more aggravating. It would be highly careless to give too frequent doses of centesimals, as the aggravation must be waited out before redosing.

I have been practicing for 20 years using primarily centesimals. I give one dose and wait 2-4 weeks. This length of waiting time will depend to some extent on the individual patient's reaction.

I was taught to use the LM potencies, and did so for the first year or so after I graduated. I found them quite unsatisfying, and difficult to use. Patients often overdosed themselves, and were often unhappy with daily dosing. As a practitioner I found them slow, so much slower than Centesimal potencies. I might spend 6 months or longer slowly moving up the scale and still not see cure. What I discovered was if I moved to the centesmial potencies of that same remedy (say to 1M or 10M), there would be a marked aggravation, and the cure would finish.

I also found that the LMs appeared to not last as long as centesimals. I could give a single centesimal dose and expect to not have to repeat it for a month or sometimes longer. LMs I need to repeat every few days at least or the patient would relapse.

This lead me to believe that LM potencies could easily be used to palliate or even suppress, if the remedy was not selected correctly. Especially I have seen this with new homoeopaths whose prescribing skills are still developing. With single doses this is very difficult to do.

I have a number of cases where the patient responded so well to a single dose of a high potency (1M,10M typically) that they did not need to come back to see me for many years. LMs never did this for any patient of mine.

You will see this same thing reported by many homoeopaths such as the Mumbai group. Single doses of centesimal potencies spaced many months apart.

My LM potencies tend to sit gathering dust now. I occasionally feel guilty that I do not use them, and drag them out for a patient. But the same problems always reoccur - they cure is slow and does not seem to hold. I always end up moving back to centesimal.

David Kempson
Professional Classical Homoeopath
 
brisbanehomoeopath 8 years ago
Dear David

Thank you for your reply but I am not in entire agreement with the rules of classical homeopathy. Allow me to give you an example, a patient came to see me recently. He dosed himself with lycopodium 30c after a recommendation. He has been following the principles of classical homeopathy - so he took 3 doses for one day and left it. the symptoms were fine for a couple of days then came back. so he repeated. again the symptoms were fine for a few days then came back. he then took 1m which caused a big aggravation then slight improvement. then worse again. he is back on 30c lycopodium and i have told him to take 30c lycopodium daily for 2 weeks. his condition improved greatly. i then told him to take lycopodium 200c for 2 weeks. he is cured of all symptoms. i have also advised he take a single dose of lycopodium every 3 months even if he is fine as this gets rid of the root of the problem.

Santino Sharma
 
santinosharma 8 years ago
Hi Dave and Santino,

I would like to purchase this book. Please tell me where I can get it.

Thanks,

Dan
 
Dan_H 8 years ago
don't know what book you are talking
about- but almost all homeopathy
books are on Minimum books dot com
 
simone717 8 years ago
Simone,

I was talking about the late doctor hahnehmanns’s book with version 6 as Santino mentioned.
 
Dan_H 8 years ago
Dan, the very late Dr. Hahnemann,
founder of homeopathy, his books
can be found on Minimum books.com
under author name- Organon of Medicine
6th edition.
 
simone717 8 years ago
The principle of classical homoeopathy is the Law of the Minimum Dose. This does NOT mean 1 dose, but the least amount possible to create cure in the patient. This can mean daily doses, or even hourly doses. It can also mean a single dose. It is part of the larger principle of Individualization, where each aspect of treatment must be tailored to the specific patient.

Be cautious of quoting incorrect philosophy as justification for opposing Classical Homoeopathy. Learn the correct philosophy first, then you will see that it is quite workable for the majority of patients. I assume these ideas come from all the rubbish floating around on the internet, because if they read (and remember) what is in the Organon it is clear what the guidelines are.

Many practitioners may err on the side of caution, because being overzealous with frequency of dosage can have dire consequence for some patients. Aggravations can harm their health if too strong or if allowed to go on too long, and proving symptoms can be made into permanent new symptoms. Once you see a couple of strong aggravations it becomes one of your top priorities to stop it from happening again. While not everyone reacts this way, until you know for sure what kind of patient you have in front of you, being careful is in everyone's best interest.

Obviously if it is clear that the patient is not going to overreact, and the case is not clearing up the way you are currently dosing, you can look at increasing it. I have an elderly gentlman under my care currently who takes Rhus-tox 200c every day for several weeks at a time, with very little aggravation and no other complications.

I would not agree with having someone retake a remedy they do not clearly need (are not showing the symptoms of) as this is just as likely to cause a proving. At the very least it is a waste of time as there is no similarity being used to prescribe. Without symptoms, without similarity, it is not homoeopathy.

Cure cannot be measured over a short period. You should not claim a patient cured until at least 12 months have passed. Then any prescription or dosage method you have used can be properly assessed. For most peer review of cases, it is commonly closer to 24 months.
[message edited by brisbanehomoeopath on Wed, 16 May 2012 23:49:52 BST]
[message edited by brisbanehomoeopath on Thu, 17 May 2012 00:04:27 BST]
 
brisbanehomoeopath 8 years ago
I agree with some points you have mentioned but i cannot agree with you fully. It is not a waste of time to repeat a remedy even when cured as everyone has an inherent weakness that stays with them for a lifetime.

You will agree that personalities do not change (certainly not drastically) and its our personality and emotions, reactions that cause the secretion of certain hormones which in turn affect our health. There is no such thing as complete 100% cure and its very easy for the original problem to return if you become careless.

i agree that a timescale of 1 year , 2 years in fact 5 years is best. but i have seen patients that became complacent and the very same problem came back after a few years - sometimes as late as 10 years

i am basing my findings on experience rather than what i have read in books or the internet. Please remember that dr hahnemann was a researcher - in a community which did not appreciate homeopathy and with limited resources. let us not be closed minded and take what he had written as strict doctrine. science and medicine evolves - so let our thinking be evolved too!!! - its only then that you will obtain a higher success rate.
 
santinosharma 8 years ago
The inherent weakness stays with them for a lifetime. So there is no cure? Is that what you believe?

The whole point of miasmatic theory is to cure that weakness. And over time it will be cured - almost certainly not with one remedy, but with a series of remedies that moves the patient up from what is usually a very peculiar and serious place, to a much more healthy and normal one. One needs to be able to adapt to whatever comes up next, and act on it rather than letting the patient go back to the doctor or start palliating with herbs. Managing all the crises that occur after the presenting complaint is cured is vital to genuine cure.

To say such a weakness stays with someone forever is to say that homoeopathy is a lie, that it cures nothing but just palliates, like orthodox medicine does. It does not sit well with me to say that nobody is ever cured.

My old patients do not all return needing the same remedy. Some do, and that is definitely because they were not cured. Some return needing treatment for some other event that has occured in their life, which most likely is external (accident, abortion, infection etc). Those patients who have already had their chronic disease cured, do not return with a new chronic disease UNLESS they have allowed orthodox medicine to create it, or have engaged in some other kind of unhealthy behaviour (drugs, drastic dieting, repeated STDs and so on). Generally speaking, those patients present with much less peculiar and complex problems when they return, and tend to respond well to simple polycrest remedies. These people can tend to look like those cases in our books that the old masters used to see - uncomplicated cases.

The personality of the patient has nothing to do with the remedy. Only the disease does. You must seperate the normal characteristics of the person from the disease which may alter and distort those characteristics. However, having a personality is not a disease. It is a normal component of being human, and should not be seen as part of the remedy/disease state.

There is definitely such a thing as 100% cure, I have seen it often (although much less often in my first 5 years). However, there is no such thing as remaining in a perfect cured state of health forever. This is impossible. People will always need treatment as they get older, as they live in the world, because it is impossible not to react to it and get out of balance at times. Once you cure the chronic weakness, then the diseases that people get will tend to be more 'normal' ones. They will be understandable reactions to the external environment (which is quite polluted and toxic and creates a huge challenge for us).

What does it mean when a patient returns with the same problem 10 years later? Unless it has an external cause, it is because the cure was incomplete. Patients can be impatient, or simply do not understand to follow through. Practitioners can get stuck and be unable to take the patient any further. Other circumstances can simply pull people away from homoeopathy leaving the miasm quiet but still present. It is almost certainly because the miasm was left unaddressed.
 
brisbanehomoeopath 8 years ago
I respect your views. Everyone has a different method and whichever works for you is best.

I myself am happy with my method. My original point was to address those on this forum who seem to say they took a remedy twice felt relief then got worse again. And other forum users suggest them to try something else, rather than taking the same remedy at a high continuous dose as they fear it will cause a proving. This is extremely poor practice.
 
santinosharma 8 years ago
Dear Santino,

I do not know if you have been dealing with mental issues and sensitive patients or not. Because it is almost next to impossible to cure mental issues with repeated dose on dry tongue. I have been using mainly split dose and i have not seen any failure in it, ofcourse if the medicine is correct.

You can never say that only your method works, you need to try different things and then you can know the beauty of other dosing systems.

For example just 3 hour before, my own son (4 years old) was in high fever with the severe pain in his stomach. I dissolved 2 pellets of Colocynth. (poppy seed pallet, 20 number) in half glass of spring water and given him one teaspoon full and then after 15 minutes another dose of a teaspoonfull. Now there is no fever, no pain and he is sleeping just right beside my desk. :)

There are hundreds of cases i can talk about and i only use split dose.

You try to treat chronic pilesand other stubborn disease with dry and repeated dose and what you will get is failure only.

4 weeks before I treated a patient, was having piles. it was not chronic but he tried 2 homeopath without any relief. His symptoms was indicating Aesculus and i given him 4 poppy seed pallets dissolved in half bottle of spring water, told him to take one teaspoon full daily in the morning. He was having one piles tumor around a nut size. I got a call from him today saying there is no tumor at all and he is as fine as he was before. He is a singer and now he is performing in another state today, he said sorry because he couldn't come to see me :) No medicine was changed, just Aesculus, and only 4 poppy seed pallets in half bottle of water cured him. I would like to mention here one thing that he smokes and chew tobacco too but it didn't affect the treatment at all.


Warm Regards
Tabish
 
tabish007 8 years ago
good work to Tabish. But also want to say that It is possible to do so by using centesimal potency I have cured so many cases tougher than ur those cases within 3-6 months. Eager to learn applying the LM potency using bcs it aggravates a little which is most of the time unnoticeable. And also useful in state of immergency of cancr or patients who r at the last stage of there recovery power of vital force of there body. Recently found at many books of noble doctors that they use LM drugs at emergency state than use the centesimal system to cure from the root. I will b glad if i or any one can improve its dosing system that it do not aggravates and works fast and cures from the root.

I generally use centesumal dosing system. Bcs I can guide it next to perfect dosing level for patients using different methods for different patients. But it would b nice if any one can invent something new to follow same way for all patients. It will make homeopathy easier and doubt less to all.

Dr. Showrav
Bangladesh
 
Dr. Showrav 8 years ago
Dear Dr. Showrav,

These two cases were just current hour cases, as i treated my son 3 hours before and when i was surfing this forum i got a call from that pilespatient, so i written it down. I don't remember how many cases i have gone through in past 6 months.

In the beginning I have been using centesimal potency but in most of the cases I started loosing patients because aggravations were severe and most of them run towards allopathy for the treatment. Specially in mental cases where aggravations was fatal and patients were able to anything. in most of the cases aggravations were life threatening.

From the day I started using split doses, It never let me down. I still use centesimal potency, but very rare.

3 months back I was working on a cancr paitent, suffering with throat cancr, it was his last stage and it was too late to do anything with him, but I tried my best and use split doses (very frequently, on 30 minutes gap only) and that patient was able to live for 2 and half months while allopath declared that he wont be able to live for more than a week. Vomiting of blood with very offensive smell, and Kreosotum 200 given him so much relief for about 2 and half months.

I wish if we all can work together and share our experiences then we can put homeopathy on a level where Kent and other people left.

More inputs from other doctors would be great.

Many Regards
 
tabish007 8 years ago
Dear Tabish,

Much delighted to hear the courageous words from u. I do think so as we work together can change the life of the poor patients. before 2 days I have also lost one of my critical patient. The main problem of cancr patients are most of the time they go to a homeopath while they r at last stage with very weak response of their vital force of their life.

So there is nothing much to do left for a homeopath in this cases while it is now proven that homeopathy can cure cancr.

I have wish in future I will establish a hospital and a research centre which will combined all the treatment system avail able on earth in one center with all avail able technological facilities. Homeopathy will be the main stream treatment line one day at there and the other allopath and harb or medicine consultant, physiotherapist and all others will help to work medicine faster.

pray to got if it is possible for me I wish than I will search for the all intellectual brains and great heart doctors to come there and research there to find out some thing common for all as a method of treatment. Bcs most of the time it seems to me very funny that one patient have different treatment in different methods while there is no need. Bcs one established method which cures a patient perfectly and uses minimum time without aggravation or side effects is very much good enough to stay and the other treatments will automatically vanished as they r were not so effective like the first one I told.
It can only happen like that while all the wise people on earth get anonymous with researching about that together.

Dr. Showrav
Bangladesh
 
Dr. Showrav 8 years ago
Well judging from this it seems the eastern method of homeopathy which I consider greatly superior is very different to the western. Even in Germany itself the eastern approach and Ayurveda has been vastly adopted. I am glad other doctors agree that one or two doses is simpy not enough to cure a patient. I am tired of seeing uselss approaches especially on this forum. For instance. I have given lycopodium 1m everyday for a month for his sinus problem. In this forum I would be shot for everyone believes its a deep acting remedy and should only be given once. Or proving will occur. Proving never occurs if you gradually increase dose and potency. After one month he is much better. After six months he was cured. I think some so called western doctors need to re think their methods.
 
santinosharma 8 years ago
Well Santino,
it would be fantastic if you came on
here and did a few cases-you cannot
argue with great results. And everybody
will learn from it.
[message edited by simone717 on Sun, 21 Jun 2015 17:30:22 UTC]
 
simone717 8 years ago
Hi Simone. Thank you for your response. It's nice to see open mindedness. My original post was not to show off my success or arrogance but rather to encourage people to try new methods than to just blindly rely on the original classical theories which we all know do not work. It saddens me when people have found the right remedy but fear to to take it as often as they should because they believe their original problem will come back. Finding the right remedy is the hard part. Taking the remedy is the easy part. But so many seem to feel on the latter ! I would like to participate but as you can appreciate this forum seems to be more of a trial and error one rather than a strict homeopathic practice. One cannot really give the right remedy without knowing full history physical appearance pulse diagnosis and personality assessment. Type of hair type of skin body shape. I can go on. I don't think the questionnaires on here are enough. And I don't believe in combination remedies. I believe if you can cure the root cause of a problem all the other problems will go to. Eg if someone is suffering from acne and hair fall. Don't look for medicine for acne or hair. Look for stomach digestive system remedy. Everything else will be cured too. Same with sinus problems and to a certain extent impotence.

Thanks
[message edited by santinosharma on Sun, 20 May 2012 08:58:21 BST]
 
santinosharma 8 years ago

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