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The ABC Homeopathy Forum

Advice about depression remedy

A week ago I gave a friend Natrum Muriaticum for depression resulting from past negative experiences and relationships, and exhibiting strong mistrust and paranoia of others (I am not a qualified homeopath, but have studied a bit and have some years of experience with homeopathy as a patient so I figured since my friend wasn't going to pay to see a homeopath anyway I may as well try to give them a remedy anyway and Nat M seemed like an almost perfect match.)

Anyway my friend responded excellently for about five days and seemed like a different person, more animated, outgoing and better mood. However the last two days their mood seems to have dropped and they seem to be becoming more down and sluggish looking. They don't seem as deeply hurt/depressed as before, but still seem to have regressed a bit at least to an outward observer) although they claim that their physical feeling of anguish has disappeared and is now only in their head, and additionally their moods seem to be alternating much quicker than before the remedy.

Is it possible that the remedy was correct and that this is an aggravation (I have personally never experienced immediate amelioration followed by curative aggravation, it was always either immediate aggravation followed by amelioration, or immediate amelioration. In addition in my limited experience even if someone is aggravating they still come across as more healthy and vibrant to an outside observer which is what worries me slightly.

Any input would be appreciated.
[message edited by regbarclay30 on Wed, 24 Dec 2014 05:22:12 GMT]
  regbarclay30 on 2014-12-24
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
whether a remedy was correctly chosen or not is a matter of subjective judgement. we may think it was correct but in reality it may not be related to the case at all. please describe your friend so that we may come to a conclusion one way or the other. In practice natrum mur is very difficult to distinguish from sepia,calcarea phos and thuja.
telescope 8 years ago
The person was suffering from extreme sadness and grief from past experiences (mainly being hurt/let down by people of authority they had trusted in). Despite their extreme sadness they never expressed this outwardly through crying etc, but remained closed up and extremely mistrusting and paranoid of others and their intentions and afraid to accept help from friends and family. They exhibited extreme emotional sensitivity and fear of hurt, rejection or humiliation which also caused social anxiety.
They are very timid in their nature but can be quite obstinate and strongly principled about certain values they have.

I used Vithoulkas Compass and went through the materia medica of all the close remedies and Nat M seemed to me to be a strong match.
regbarclay30 8 years ago
from what you say your choice might have been correct. aggravation after amelioration is a bad sign implying in most cases incurability . however in this case the most probable cause of regression is exhaustion of the action of the remedy either naturally or because of interference from other causes. as the remedy worked once give it once more preferably in the next higher potency and tell him not to take any other medicine or sour food and drink
telescope 8 years ago
Amelioration followed by aggravation is usually a sign of palliation - not incurability. That response represents the reasons you prescribed the medicine rather than something about the patient. However, if they are still better after the remedy in some ways, the aggravation may just be something they didn't notice. You need to assess a patient reaction very carefully to get this information from them at times - people tend to forget quickly especially if the reaction was very positive.

I agree, one more dose would probably be the most appropriate thing to do, as this could by a partial relapse.

Too short an amelioration does mean various things. We can work this out based on what his response to a second dose is.

However, do NOT give a higher dose yet. If it is palliation, you can make the problem worse by going higher too quickly. The general rule in homoeopathy is always to prescribe the same medicine in the same potency again.

What potency did you give him, and how did you administer it to him exactly.
Evocationer 8 years ago
They took 1M in dry dose.

At the moment they seem on and off sometimes really good and sometimes not as good but even at the low points they still look better than they did before the remedy, so I'm thinking it might be better to just wait and observe for the moment.
regbarclay30 8 years ago
Indeed that does seem to be the best path to take.

Remember that dry doses will cause significantly more difficult aggravations, and you should only be giving doses in water (split doses). Certainly should you need to repeat, you must not repeat the dry dose.
Evocationer 8 years ago
Most of the practical homeopathy I have been exposed to has involved prescribing dry doses and a lot of caution and waiting before repeating. Would I be correct in assuming that this would be considered 4th organon prescribing?

I have read about the benefits of liquid split dose and LM prescribing of the 5th and 6th organon but have no practical experience. Maybe you could tell me for example if I were to have given them the same remedy in liquid form how the administering and repetition would have differed.
[message edited by regbarclay30 on Sun, 28 Dec 2014 00:02:27 GMT]
regbarclay30 8 years ago
Yes that is 4th edition Organon. It is quite out of date.

Can you get a copy of the 5th or 6th editions? It would be best to read that OR even better - get a copy of Dr. Luc Du Schepper's book on dosing "Achieving and Maintaining the Simillimum" - he runs through those later editions and expands on the information there.

These are the basic standard instructions I give to patients for dosing:

If you have pillules or pellets, you will need a small bottle and a dropper to make your own liquid dose. Mix water and alcohol into this small bottle to the ratio of 5:1. Dissolve 3 pillules/pellets into this bottle. All doses will be made from this bottle.

If you already have a liquid dose just start from step 1.

1. Hit the bottle 5 times firmly against the palm of the hand

2. Place 3 drops into 100mls of clean fresh water

3. Stir very thoroughly

4. Take 2 teaspoons out into the mouth and hold for 20 seconds, then swallow.

This is one dose and the same steps should be taken for any further doses, unless I ask you to change them in some way.

If any old symptoms reappear, or any current symptoms worsen, this is a GOOD sign in most cases. DO NOT SUPPRESS them with other kinds of medication unless you are in real danger (which is a highly unlikely reaction to a remedy).

However, if you are on regular medication it is also important that you do NOT stop taking this. Once it is determined the medicine has acted beneficially, we can look at reducing such medication if safe to do so. Regular medication in this instance is NOT defined as other homoeopathic medicines which MUST be stopped.

The number of doses I give is variable, but I prefer to start with one so I can assess the person's sensitivity before proceeding.

The dose can be adjusted in various ways, to get more out of the remedy, and to avoid any harm to the patient. You can adjust the number of succussions to the bottle, the number of drops, the amount of water into which the drops go, the number of teaspoons given. This makes the method extremely flexible and useful for a variety of situations.
[message edited by Evocationer on Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:23:31 GMT]
Evocationer 8 years ago
Thanks for the info, as I said I have read the 5th and 6th organon but only really have experience with homeopaths who seem to be still heavily using the earlier methods.

My main question is if someone has already been given a dry dose would repeating the same remedy in liquid form after succussion be completely risk free to the patient?

Another thing is, I remember something about a need to use distilled water, is this correct?

Again thanks for your help.
[message edited by regbarclay30 on Tue, 30 Dec 2014 17:38:29 GMT]
regbarclay30 8 years ago
Firstly, nothing is risk free. We can only reduce risks, which the advanced methods of dosing are meant to do for patients.

It isn't difficult to do - if you start with the instructions I have given, and then adjust various steps up or down, depending on how the patient reacts.

Diluting and altering the dose will always be more effective than repeating dry doses, assuming the remedy selection is good, and the patient still needs that remedy and potency of course.

I use purified water typically, but also spring water, and have used tap water with no noticeable effect on the power of the remedy.
Evocationer 8 years ago
Thanks for the advice, the person followed the instructions above and seemed to respond well, but in the last couple of weeks seems to have started relapsing (a few weeks ago they also had some acute problem which ended up in them taking various allopathic medicines over about a week).

The problem is that they have lost the original liquid solution made from the pellets, I have since bought a liquid dose of the same remedy/potency and was wondering if they could possibly try another dose using that one and if so what the succussion process should be since the last remedy they took had been shaken 5 times.

Any advice would be much appreciated.
regbarclay30 7 years ago

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