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homeopathy high potencies

I am a newbie to homeopathy.Will some body guide me about the side effects of high potencies and whether it will produce irreversible changes.[1M and above]
My uncle { a heart patient]was advised Nux vomica 200 one dose every night for constipation. along with his allopathic med.He did it for months and there were no damages.But I hear that taking 200 potency continuosly is dangerous.Pl let me know yr views
regards
pardas
[message edited by pardas on Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:13:37 GMT]
 
  pardas on 2015-03-24
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
How is his constipation now?
And how is he overall now? Did he
develop any new symptoms from
taking the nux vomica?

The point of taking a remedy is
that it is to cure the problem
so you don't have to take it
constantly.
 
simone717 9 years ago
Thanks for the prompt reply.This is a very old story maybe 20 years ago. He had suffered myocordial infarction. He was quite comfortable about his constipation after taking nux.
In my thinking he may have been self medicating , but in spite of having 200 potency once daily , for at least 6 months ,he was comfortable and happy about his stools.
He died at the age of 82 due to old age last year.

But the point I am making is whether one develops a pathology after misuse of remedy?That too of 200 potency.If there is no pathology development, why caution about misusing high potency medicines?Or in some cases repeating high potencies will initiate a serious disease?.As a newcomer I am yet not clear about hazards of repeating when remedy is not necessary.
Regards
pardas
 
pardas 9 years ago
In the case of your Uncle-

He did this for 6 months, 20 years ago. It did not
seem to have any bad effect,which is strange. I can't
tell you why that is, but most people cannot get away
with doing that, they will start proving the remedy and
get new symptoms bc they were overdosing.

I think what you are really trying to understand is
palliation- suppression. If you keep taking a remedy,
and it does not follow ( Google Herings law of cure)
and it just makes a person feel better, so they keep taking
it- That is going to drive the symptoms deeper into the body-
they are going to eventually create another disease-

That is using medicine like allopathy, for example
taking steroids, people feel better, but nothing is
being cured. The real cause is being suppressed.

And if you use the Correct remedy- in a high potency-
on someone who is weak or old- it will overwhelm them-
bc the remedy when right - is a "similar" fake disease to
what the person already has. The mechanics of the body,
work to raise the vital force, when a similar fake disease
( the remedy) is introduced.

So if you have the remedy right and the person is weak or
feeble, the high potency? instead of having the body
react by raising the life force- the person is too weak to
raise it Enough to clear things- the reaction to the high potency won't happen-
the person will be sicker than they already are and they can
die in some cases.

Evocationer can answer more of these things for you better
than me. He probably will comment.
[message edited by simone717 on Tue, 24 Mar 2015 20:41:51 GMT]
 
simone717 9 years ago
Pathology MIGHT develop after misuse of a remedy but this will only happen in those people predisposed to that pathology AND that remedy. It will certainly aggravate any pathology already existing UNLESS it is palliating it instead.

The real question is what else happened in his health though. We may never know what changes the medicine was making - people themselves may not notice as a remedy can alter a person's character quite subtlely. What changes in his body did he not recognize?

The reality though, is that even taking a remedy every day may not produce symptoms. In our provings (experiments to determine what symptoms a remedy may produce) does not produce symptoms in all participants. The kinds of symptoms it will produce (physical, mental etc) varies too based on the individual's sensitivities and constitutional make up.

If Nux-v was not really that closely aligned to his internal pattern, then it won't 'take'. He could take as much as he wants and nothing will happen.

The problem comes when a person has some kind of sensitivity to the remedy/substance/plant family/animal type/chemical etc. If their case has a reasonable amount of similarity to the remedy, or worse if the similarity is ONLY in one or two areas - this is where you get palliation and suppression.

Palliation though can go on for a long time for people before anything shows up - assuming the person even connects it to the use of the remedy. Whether that turns into suppression and then pathology really depends on many other individual factors.

Another thing to keep in mind is how he was taking the medicine. If it was by dry dose (pillules) then this pretty much becomes ineffective after awhile. The peron's vital force will eventually be unmoved without constant adjusting of the dose through dilution and succussion - he might as well have been eating sugar.

If it was a liquid dose, these can also lose effectiveness over time, as the water itself can only hold the pattern of the remedy for a certain time, and this is affected by where the remedy is kept, what it comes in contact with and so on.

Generally speaking, remedies don't create pathology, they aggravate it. This means it has to already be there. Remedies 'exploit' weaknesses for the most part. In sensitive individuals they can create them too.
[message edited by Evocationer on Tue, 24 Mar 2015 23:41:38 GMT]
 
Evocationer 9 years ago
I am so glad that I have been guided.
However does this mean that remedy selection and repetition basically has to do with our vital force.That is if repetition is done with a strong vital force, morbid changes will not occur.With weak vital force one has to be very careful with repetition of a remedy and this is irrespective of potency.In this case I understand one thing is that if you repeat the same remedy and same potency for a long time the body ultimately gets used to it and nothing occurs.Do these pills then merely become placebos?
While reading I understand that some homeopaths would give a single remedy and wait and watch, slowly increase the potency,while some have no problems in giving potencies like 200 and higher. If 200 and higher potency be repeated wont it be a risk?Giving a high potency unnecessarily would create issues if the person has some susceptibility.I read many times homeopaths giving high potency right at the start.Is this not risk fraught?Pl correct me if i am wrong.
 
pardas 9 years ago
Hi Pardas,

Per Hahnemann, the homeopath should be trying to select:

The right remedy, the right potency and the right amount of doses.

Some people are not following Hahnemann and have protocols
such as take this, and then a week later take that, and
a week later take something else- some of these folks even
say they are Classical homeopaths, Classical is a misnomer-
You get a much more clear picture of what kind of rules the
homeopath is going to use if they say they follow Hahnemann
or not.
A. You have to narrow down who is following Hahnemann when
you look at what people are doing, bc many are making up
their own methods in dosing and choosing remedies- such
as "desk top" remedies that have never had a correct proving done,
or Provings done thru "meditation"-Dr. Andre Saine, for example,
does not rely on the materia medicas- he uses the actual provings
to choose the remedy ( there are many mistakes in the materia
medicas, such as Silica patients being afraid of needles ( that
was only in one person in the provings)

B. For those who are following Hahnemann some do not
use the 6th edition of the Organon and they still use
repeated dry doses. Famous people such as Dr. J Ullman,
dinesh Chauhan, Rajan Sankaran , Vithoulkas, etc
C. The subject of dosing etc is called Posology and is
an entire learning subject that needs to be studied.
I would first study what Hahnemann said, then google
Dr. Luc.com and click on his articles where he covers
this- he makes a lot of sense to me and he advocated
doing a test dose on everyone first of a 30c to see
how they responded to that level before he went on
to other potencies.
D. On the high potencies, it depends - if you were
getting a prescription from Dr. Andre Saine ( known
worldwide for taking incurable cases and curing them)
and he selected a high potency for you, I would
certainly do that bc he has the experience, the education
and a stellar track record.

Homeopaths all do things differently, they start
a case differently,according to how they see fit.
So if you do a bit of reading on famous homeopaths,
from Vithoulkas, to Ullman, to Dr. Luc, to Andre Saine,
you can compare them to what Hahnemann said in the
first place.They are all doing different things, and
these are well informed people with experience.

People with little experience and minimum education in
homeopathy such as some naturopaths,
chiropractors etc,who knows why?? they prescribe what
they do, they are not grounded in the basics.
[message edited by simone717 on Wed, 25 Mar 2015 22:20:55 GMT]
 
simone717 9 years ago
Just to give you an idea of how varied dosing is
by different people, this is an excerpt on Dr J Ullmans
philosophy and methods of dosing.

Although in our Homeopathic Self-Care book, we provide instructions for dosing with a variety of potencies, most home medicine kits, including ours, use 30C potencies. The reason is that it is a high enough potency to last for a day or so, but low enough to be used comfortably by those with very little knowledge of homeopathy. Self-treatment can be quite effective for first aid and acute conditions, seventy of which we discuss in our book.

When we treat ourselves, or patients, for acute complaints, we typically use a 1M potency, if it is at hand. We do this for several reasons. First, we have a high level of confidence that the chosen medicine is correct. Second, the 1M potency will act quickly and powerfully. Third, typically a single dose will take care of the acute problem and repetition is usually unnecessary. ) (Note: I have found
this not to work well- When a 30c has cured an issue with a few doses, the
1M caused a huge aggravation on people with strong vital force-but sensitive
meaning artists and creative types)

Topical homeopathic preparations, often in combination, are also widely available, and are displayed alongside the pellets. These have become very popular with public for a variety of conditions including lacerations and abrasions, poison ivy and oak, burns, and musculoskeletal injuries. They may be used instead of or as an adjunct to the oral homeopathic medicines.
The Old Days

In our initial homeopathic training in naturopathic medical school, we were taught, largely under the influence of the Greek homeopath George Vithoulkas, to use, fairly exclusively, single doses of medicines ranging from the 200C to the 10M potencies. We most often began treatment with a 200C, increasing in potency only when the previous one was no longer effective in producing positive results in the patient. On rare occasions, with longstanding patients, this would require the use of a 50M (the equivalent of a 500C, a term which is not used in homeopathy) or, rarely, CM (the equivalent of a 1000C). A dose consists of approximately eight to ten tiny pellets, though they are really too small to count. This is surprising to some of our patients who were previously accustomed to purchasing their homeopathic medicines over the counter in tubes. These tubes actually contain many doses, even though the label might give instructions to take the entire contents of the tube. We were originally taught that certain antidoting factors, including coffee, aromatics such as eucalyptus, camphor, and menthol, and electric blankets should be avoided.

A few years into our practice, we studied under the tutelage of a distinguished and well-respected, Argentine homeopathic doctor, Francisco Eizayaga. His method of choosing potencies consisted of beginning with a dry dose of 6C pellets administered three times a day. When the potency needed to be raised, the patient graduated to a 12C twice a day, then a 30C once a day. Over time, the repeated dosing became cumbersome and the daily dosing didn’t appear to us to be much of an improvement over single doses, so we gave it up.

________________Until ten to fifteen years ago, avoiding coffee, electric blankets, and strong aromatics didn’t seem to be much of an issue for our patients. Taking single doses was simple, for babies, children, and adults alike, and there was no need for them to remember to take the medicine at home. Around that time the espresso epidemic hit Seattle big time. Around the same time aromatherapy became ubiquitous. Particularly for our women patients, it seemed impossible for many of them to avoid lavender oil wafting in the air, Aveda hair products, and Tea tree oil in everything from laundry detergent to dental floss. Between the exposure to the frappuccinos and lattes and the intensely aromatic fragrances, single dose medicines were no longer a realistic option for many of our patients. Although some homeopaths insist that none of those substances interferes with the effectiveness of the medicines, many of them do not use single doses of high-potency medicines, and their conclusions have often not been borne out in our clinical experience. Though we have patients on infrequent, high-potency medicines who drink coffee whenever they please with no ill effect, we have, and continue to witness a number of antidotes.

It was around this time that the LM (50,000 dilutions, as mentioned earlier) potency became quite popular in the United States. In fact, a new breed of homeopaths claimed that Dr. Samuel Hahnemann, in his last years of practice, used this potency exclusively. Adherents of the LM theory warned that the same potency should never be repeated and that the stirring of the water-based LM medicines slightly raised the potency prior to each dose. They touted the benefits of LMs, including that they were gentle, did not produce aggravations, and allowed the patient to take them as needed. So, seeking a solution to the coffee/aromatherapy wave, we used the LM medicines with many of our patients, beginning with LM1 and gradually going up to LM10 or so over time. We found that they worked well for some patients and created significant aggravations, despite what we had been told, for others. So common, in fact, were the aggravations, among our patients and those of other homeopaths, that the overly sensitive patients, for whom the LMs were supposedly ideal, often needed to further dilute the preparation to 2, 3 4, or even more glasses. We found this process to be painstaking, time-consuming, and, often, extremely confusing, especially finding the right frequency of dosing and number of glasses to offer the optimal benefit.

In an attempt to find a simpler alternative for those needing repeated doses, we began, with some of our patients, using the water-administration method of the 12C and 30C potencies, using a technique called “plussing.” We followed the precise instructions given to us by the respected homeopathic pharmacy, Hahnemann Homeopathic Laboratories. With plussed medicines, we have our patients shake the bottle vigorously ten times, the place five drops of the liquid under the tongue. This is a much less complicated procedure than preparing LM medicines.

___________________While a number of our colleagues have settled on one or the other styles of potency administration, we prefer to have them all in our tool kit. These are the basic criteria that we use in our potency selection:

Ease—By far the easiest way to take a homeopathic medicine is in the form of a single dose. When we see patients in person, we place it under their tongue or, if the prefer to wait, dispense it as pellets in a small paper envelope protected by a small plastic Ziplock bag. The small pellets are easily tolerated, and often enjoyed, by infants, young children, and animals, as well as adults.
Patient Preference—We often let our patients choose whether they prefer a single –dose medicine or frequent dosing. If they choose to drink coffee, use recreational drugs, or they engage in an occupation that exposes them to antidoting substances, we use repeated doses. Whether or not coffee, for example, will compromise the effectiveness of homeopathic treatment depends not on the type of coffee bean or frequency of ingestion, but rather on the sensitivity of that particular patient to the coffee.
Compliance—How well a patient complies with homeopathic treatment varies. There are some individuals who will never remember to take repeated doses and respond better to single doses. There are others who feel much more secure when they take the homeopathic medicine on a daily or regular basis and don’t have to be concerned about avoiding certain substances. We do have patients on single-dose medicines who do drink coffee, but we have found it best if they avoid coffee at least for a month so that, if there is not a curative response, we will not mistake interference by coffee with interpreting the medicine to be an incorrect match.
Sensitivity of the Patient—When we are treating very sensitive patients, we usually use low-potency, repeated medicines in part to avoid an aggravation, or temporary worsening of the already existing symptoms after taking the medicine. In this way, the patient can be in charge of taking the medicine when needed and, also, of using as many glasses as necessary to dilute the LM or plussed medicine to avoid any unpleasant reaction.
Conventional Medications—Many of our patients, children as well as adults, are taking pharmaceutical medications when they first come to see us. Often they are able to discontinue the medications, depending on the situation, as they respond well to the homeopathy, We tend to use repeated doses just in case the medications interfere with the homeopathy, though this it is not absolutely necessary, mainly a precaution.
Age of the Patient and Strength of the Vital Force—We tend to use lower potencies, either in single or repeated doses, with babies, with patients who are depleted and weak, and in treating our pets. That said, in cases of severe acute illnesses, or if the lower potencies have been exhausted already, we may use high-potency medicines in these cases. The decision often depends on the clarity of the symptom picture, severity of the symptoms, and compliance.
The various possibilities of dosing provide tremendous flexibility to prescribers and to patients. Not only is homeopathy the safest type of medicine we have ever encounter, but there is a mode of administration to suit anyone’s needs. This flexibility, along with its effectiveness, allows it to be used as a stand-alone form of medicine, or in combination with other drugs or therapies.
[message edited by simone717 on Wed, 25 Mar 2015 22:58:46 GMT]
 
simone717 9 years ago
so nice of you I am grateful for this extremely educative reply
Regards
Pardas
[message edited by pardas on Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:07:37 GMT]
 
pardas 9 years ago

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