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Unsuccessful remedies - help! Page 6 of 7
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Jessica,
I would still give at least one dose of the MMR to address his reaction even if his glands go down. Jacob may disagree but having lived this myself and with my daughter, if it is not addressed, it will continue to haunt forever coming out in different ways for years.
I have always contended the MMR is not a nosode either as it is made from a vaccine and not the individual diseases. However, I am in the minority.
Jacob, as for using the same potency and same dose as an antidote, there is a good article here: http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/17622/
Read the original article posted in the link. It also talks about Dr. Luc DeSchepper who also uses the centesimals in water rather like the LMs (as we touched on in a different post).
I was skeptical about the antidote of a repeat same potency/dose but I have seen it happen. And not only in aggravation cases. For example, my son recently had a fever and sore throat among other things. Gave him dose of Hep Sulph, 30c, 3 pellets dry. Symptoms improved but not quite all the way. In 3 hours, I thought one more dose will cure it up... instead it antidoted and he was back to square one.
Recently, child had high fever, burning pains, sinus infection after lingering cold, matching Hydrastis Can, gave 2 pellets, 30c dry. Proved the remedy immediately! Two pellets, 30c dry several hours later - antidoted and cured. STRANGE!
Sorry to go off topic, but I think it might still be applicable for the dosing given Jessica's son.
I would still give at least one dose of the MMR to address his reaction even if his glands go down. Jacob may disagree but having lived this myself and with my daughter, if it is not addressed, it will continue to haunt forever coming out in different ways for years.
I have always contended the MMR is not a nosode either as it is made from a vaccine and not the individual diseases. However, I am in the minority.
Jacob, as for using the same potency and same dose as an antidote, there is a good article here: http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/17622/
Read the original article posted in the link. It also talks about Dr. Luc DeSchepper who also uses the centesimals in water rather like the LMs (as we touched on in a different post).
I was skeptical about the antidote of a repeat same potency/dose but I have seen it happen. And not only in aggravation cases. For example, my son recently had a fever and sore throat among other things. Gave him dose of Hep Sulph, 30c, 3 pellets dry. Symptoms improved but not quite all the way. In 3 hours, I thought one more dose will cure it up... instead it antidoted and he was back to square one.
Recently, child had high fever, burning pains, sinus infection after lingering cold, matching Hydrastis Can, gave 2 pellets, 30c dry. Proved the remedy immediately! Two pellets, 30c dry several hours later - antidoted and cured. STRANGE!
Sorry to go off topic, but I think it might still be applicable for the dosing given Jessica's son.
busymominme last decade
Wow, that was a good read! Although, I must say I am slightly confused about the split dosing.
Let's see if I have this right: You put a pellet into a full glass of water, dump it out (but what do you do with the pellet, leave it in the glass or let it fall out or even disolve completely?), then refill the glass and repeat for whatever number of glasses desired. Is this what is called 'succuss'? Is it best to start using lower numbers of dilution or higher (meaning the number of glasses)? Also, if you already have a completely dissolved pellet, how do you do this, by using a single teaspoon of the previous glass in the consecutive glass? I would like to try treating my husband for his chronic back pain with Rhus Tox 30c, which worked initially, but does not continue to work. So this method seems appropriate, if I could only be sure I understand it, lol. Thanks for the suggested reading, I enjoyed it.
Jessica
Let's see if I have this right: You put a pellet into a full glass of water, dump it out (but what do you do with the pellet, leave it in the glass or let it fall out or even disolve completely?), then refill the glass and repeat for whatever number of glasses desired. Is this what is called 'succuss'? Is it best to start using lower numbers of dilution or higher (meaning the number of glasses)? Also, if you already have a completely dissolved pellet, how do you do this, by using a single teaspoon of the previous glass in the consecutive glass? I would like to try treating my husband for his chronic back pain with Rhus Tox 30c, which worked initially, but does not continue to work. So this method seems appropriate, if I could only be sure I understand it, lol. Thanks for the suggested reading, I enjoyed it.
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
Dear Busy, you seem to have misunderstood. whether Jessica should still give the MMR or not is not under debate, it is when. I haven't stated that it should not be given, as given the symptomology, and as stated much earlier, there is very good precedence for it's application.
With reference to the same potency antidoting subject, I have never once seen this occur in 12 years of practice. The case you give is an acute, and acute cases are not quite the same as chronic, as in terms of similarity, and with very few exceptions, remedies indicated for acutes can never be as much of an almost EXACT match as those used in chronic (miasmatic)diseases. Baring this in mind, sometimes what occurs in acute prescribing (or even when a badly selected remedy has ben given in a chronic case) is that a patient may react badly to a remedy during the course of treatment, but find it curative days, or even hours later. There are many factors involved in this, such as levels of sleep, exhaustion, whether the patient is in need of food etc etc, and THIS occurence I have seen many times.
I have witnessed also, a few cases where a patient has inadvertantly proved a remedy, which may have gone on for weeks, and has then taken the same dose of the same potency and the proving has been drawn to a halt, but this is not due to the potencies ability to anti-dote itself, but also due to the circumstances given above. Much depends on the particular reaction to a remedy, where it is only SIMILAR to a case.
I think it is just a question of proper interpretation of what is actually occuring.
As for Dr Luc...hmm, I will perhaps look over what he has to say on the matter later.
-Jacob.
With reference to the same potency antidoting subject, I have never once seen this occur in 12 years of practice. The case you give is an acute, and acute cases are not quite the same as chronic, as in terms of similarity, and with very few exceptions, remedies indicated for acutes can never be as much of an almost EXACT match as those used in chronic (miasmatic)diseases. Baring this in mind, sometimes what occurs in acute prescribing (or even when a badly selected remedy has ben given in a chronic case) is that a patient may react badly to a remedy during the course of treatment, but find it curative days, or even hours later. There are many factors involved in this, such as levels of sleep, exhaustion, whether the patient is in need of food etc etc, and THIS occurence I have seen many times.
I have witnessed also, a few cases where a patient has inadvertantly proved a remedy, which may have gone on for weeks, and has then taken the same dose of the same potency and the proving has been drawn to a halt, but this is not due to the potencies ability to anti-dote itself, but also due to the circumstances given above. Much depends on the particular reaction to a remedy, where it is only SIMILAR to a case.
I think it is just a question of proper interpretation of what is actually occuring.
As for Dr Luc...hmm, I will perhaps look over what he has to say on the matter later.
-Jacob.
Hahnemania last decade
Hahnamania - His groin gland has remained swollen, so I am feeling confident that the MMR remedy is the way to go. A question about application, I don't have beakers so I don't know what this means for how much water I should use with 2 drops of the remedy. Can I just use a small bowl/cup or something and then use a dropper to provide him with a 'sip'? It is hard to give him a true sip of anything, it ends up mostly on him rather than in him, ha ha ha. Thanks again!
Jessica
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
Oh, and P.S you state that MMR is not a nosode because it is not prepared from individual diseases but a vaccine. What is it that vaccine matter is composed of? I do not see the debate...
And you are all free to try applying Centesimals in the same manner as LM's if you so wish, even good old Dr Luc, and good luck to you all, but I can assure you the results will be quite different, and this knowledge has been gained from 8 years of experimenting with both in such a manner. As stated elsewhere, Centesimals may be sucussed between doses a few times when in stock form, and then given in water, in a similar manner, but diluting them down, and then trying to apply them as LM's, go for it, I already know the results of this ;)
-Jacob.
And you are all free to try applying Centesimals in the same manner as LM's if you so wish, even good old Dr Luc, and good luck to you all, but I can assure you the results will be quite different, and this knowledge has been gained from 8 years of experimenting with both in such a manner. As stated elsewhere, Centesimals may be sucussed between doses a few times when in stock form, and then given in water, in a similar manner, but diluting them down, and then trying to apply them as LM's, go for it, I already know the results of this ;)
-Jacob.
Hahnemania last decade
So then Jacob, what would be your advice in my hsuband's case with chronic back and joint pains? The Rhus Tox worked for a few doses, but no longer? Does this mean he needs a different remedy or does this mean we should wait and start the remedy over again in the same or possibly different potency. We have been using 30c as that is what I have available at the present. We have been using a wet dose of 10 pellets in 12 ounces of water, kept in the fridge for periodic application. He was only taking a dose when his joints hurt. In the beginning this method was successful for a period of three hours, more or less.
Jessica
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
Hey Jessica.
There is no real set amount of water the remedy needs to be applied in, but if you do not have any disposable beakers, a small botlle of mineral water is just fine.
You should NOT however use anything you wish to keep. Anything used for the adminsistration of a remedy (i.e crockery, spoons etc) needs to be baked in a low oven for about 15 minutes to 'kill off' the remedy, so using disposable items is much easier.
You can use a dropper, but again this needs to be thrown away after use.
Re: your husband, if Rhus Tox in a 30 is only providing releif for a few hours after each dose, then it is dooubtful a higher potency would be of any benefit, and more likely the remedy is not the right one for the case, as even when correct remedies provide some relief in a case in low potencies, and need to be applied higher, this relief is for days, weeks or months rather than hours.
To accurately prescribe a remedy though, I would need to take a full case history etc, and if you wish to pursue this, you may email me privately and I will be happy to provide this.
-Jacob.
There is no real set amount of water the remedy needs to be applied in, but if you do not have any disposable beakers, a small botlle of mineral water is just fine.
You should NOT however use anything you wish to keep. Anything used for the adminsistration of a remedy (i.e crockery, spoons etc) needs to be baked in a low oven for about 15 minutes to 'kill off' the remedy, so using disposable items is much easier.
You can use a dropper, but again this needs to be thrown away after use.
Re: your husband, if Rhus Tox in a 30 is only providing releif for a few hours after each dose, then it is dooubtful a higher potency would be of any benefit, and more likely the remedy is not the right one for the case, as even when correct remedies provide some relief in a case in low potencies, and need to be applied higher, this relief is for days, weeks or months rather than hours.
To accurately prescribe a remedy though, I would need to take a full case history etc, and if you wish to pursue this, you may email me privately and I will be happy to provide this.
-Jacob.
Hahnemania last decade
Jacob,
I really appreciate your offer, but I don't want to take up more of your time. It is generous enough that you are willing to help with my son. It helps to know that at minimum, my husband needs a different remedy. Considering his issue is chronic, I don't want to be greedy with your time. ;)
Regarding the droppers, I get a new one with every box of Infant Motrin I buy, so I can spare a few to throw away. I have two sizes though, which do you think would be best, 5ml/1 teaspoon or 2.5ml/half a teaspoon? Of course I can always give him more than one dropper ful of either.
Jessica
I really appreciate your offer, but I don't want to take up more of your time. It is generous enough that you are willing to help with my son. It helps to know that at minimum, my husband needs a different remedy. Considering his issue is chronic, I don't want to be greedy with your time. ;)
Regarding the droppers, I get a new one with every box of Infant Motrin I buy, so I can spare a few to throw away. I have two sizes though, which do you think would be best, 5ml/1 teaspoon or 2.5ml/half a teaspoon? Of course I can always give him more than one dropper ful of either.
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
Dear Jessica, I have no problem with doing this, as it is something I do every day on my own forum. However if you do not wish to for other reasons, this is fine, and of course you do not need to go into these further :)
-Jacob.
-Jacob.
Hahnemania last decade
Jacob...why private e-mail...why don't you share the benefit of your advice with every one??
Let others also benefit from it.
Pankaj Varma
Let others also benefit from it.
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Dear Mr Varma (yet again).
The reason for 'private e-mail' is that I hardlly think this is the place for PROPER casetaking of the classical variety, as evidenced by my trying to do so on other threads, which is usually attended by people zooming in and out with the usual stream of 'have this complaint? here take this! hehehe'
Moreover though I am pretty much free to suggest where I conduct such case takings, or indeed what I share with others, without having to explain myself to anyone, least of all to someone who only 'plays around' with Homoeopathy in their spare time, and has received not training in the subject at all.
-Jacob.
The reason for 'private e-mail' is that I hardlly think this is the place for PROPER casetaking of the classical variety, as evidenced by my trying to do so on other threads, which is usually attended by people zooming in and out with the usual stream of 'have this complaint? here take this! hehehe'
Moreover though I am pretty much free to suggest where I conduct such case takings, or indeed what I share with others, without having to explain myself to anyone, least of all to someone who only 'plays around' with Homoeopathy in their spare time, and has received not training in the subject at all.
-Jacob.
Hahnemania last decade
I got the MMR remedy today! I'm very excited. I think I will give it to him when he wakes from his nap. His glands have been staying pretty much the same, not totally swollen, but not reduced either. Wish me luck!
Jessica
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
Hey Jessica, and excellent!The very best of luck, let's hope this approach does the trick. Remember though, even if it does not, there are other anti-vaccinosis remedies which can be tried, so don't be disheartened!
Best wishes.
-Jacob.
Best wishes.
-Jacob.
Hahnemania last decade
Geez, those bottles are hard to get drops out of, I hope I dispensed it ok. I gave him the dose today at 1:45 EST, two drops (I think) into about 10ml of spring water. I gave him a 5ml dropper full of the 'potion'. I will keep you posted. Here's to hoping!
Jessica
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
Yesterday there didn't seem to be a difference in his glands, but today they seemed slightly smaller toward the end of the day. His temperament has been different. He's tired and clingy for the past two days. I don't know if that is related to the remedy or teething though. We will see where it takes us from here.
Jessica
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
Dear Jessica, if you have noticed nothing further by tomorrow evening, sucuss the remedy bottle about 12 times in the palm of your hand, and apply the remedy again, make sure nothing else medicinal is given in between doses.
-Jacob.
-Jacob.
Hahnemania last decade
Ok, to clarify, sucussing is the process by which I slap the bottle from the bottom? I was never really sure about that definition. And when you say 'remedy bottle' are you referring to the bottle the MMR remedy came in or the mixture I will make with water and two drops of the remedy?
Would you consider tylenol and motrin to be 'medicinal'? With his severe teething, this will be difficult, but if you think I should avoid them, I will. For how long do you think?
Thanks Jacob!
Jessica
Would you consider tylenol and motrin to be 'medicinal'? With his severe teething, this will be difficult, but if you think I should avoid them, I will. For how long do you think?
Thanks Jacob!
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
Sorry, one more question. It seems as though you wrote on the 8th, so you want me to wait until the evening of the 9th to reapply the remedy, right? With our time changes, sometimes I am a bit confused about when you are writing, so I am following the dates on the posting. I just don't know if they are your dates or mine, ha ha ha.
Jessica
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
Haha, the evening of the 8th, wait, hah now I'M confused, SUNDAY evening, lol.
To sucuss the remedy bottle (i.e the 5ml bottle the remedy came in), hold it in your fist with the bottom slightly protruding, and bang it hard 12 times against the palm of the other hand. Leave it to stand for a few minutes then administer the dose as before.
And yes, both Tylenol and motrin would be considered as medicinal...hmm, have you been admistering these throughout his treatment with remedies?
-Jacob.
To sucuss the remedy bottle (i.e the 5ml bottle the remedy came in), hold it in your fist with the bottom slightly protruding, and bang it hard 12 times against the palm of the other hand. Leave it to stand for a few minutes then administer the dose as before.
And yes, both Tylenol and motrin would be considered as medicinal...hmm, have you been admistering these throughout his treatment with remedies?
-Jacob.
Hahnemania last decade
Ummmmm (bashful) yes....I guess that was bad. I didn't know pain relievers were considered medicinal, although now it sounds extremely silly to even say. Ugh! Ok, I will reapply the remedy tonight and give him absolutely nothing else! Promise! I had always read that homeopathic rememdies don't interact with allopathic meds, so I took this completely the wrong way it seems. Sorry!
Jessica
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
Heh, well they don't interact as such, but they can stop remedies from properley acting, especially those with any sedative properties as both the above have (mildly). I would not give them again while your son is on remedies if you can possibly help it.
-Jacob.
-Jacob.
Hahnemania last decade
Here is the update: I gave him another dose early evening yesterday and nothing else. What an interesting evening we had with no pain relievers! My husband wanted to give in, but I would not allow it. Today his glands are still swollen upon waking. I will keep you posted.
Jessica
Jessica
luckylot1999 last decade
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