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Coffee doesn't antidote in all cases Page 3 of 7

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Hello Murthy,
Thanks for the article-some authors are worth reading and Will Taylor defintely is one of them.

So... homeopathy is very individualized. What else's new?

There is one thing though...
Will says (about MMP)

Under Belladonna:

The erysipelatous swelling caused by belladonna are readily removed by hepar sulphuris. Camphor, too, displays much antidotal power against some of the morbid effects caused by belladonna.

Under Ignatia:

Coffee is serviceable as a homoeopathic antidote ... the sufferings it causes may, according to their character, be relieved by the antidotal power of pulsatilla or chamomilla, and in rarer cases by cocculus, arnica, camphor or vinegar.P:

Under Belladonna:

The erysipelatous swelling caused by belladonna are readily removed by hepar sulphuris. Camphor, too, displays much antidotal power against some of the morbid effects caused by belladonna.

Under Ignatia:

Coffee is serviceable as a homoeopathic antidote ... the sufferings it causes may, according to their character, be relieved by the antidotal power of pulsatilla or chamomilla, and in rarer cases by cocculus, arnica, camphor or vinegar.

Why would Hahnemann use in the same sentence crude and dynamized form of the r3emedy without somehow separating it.

Like ("under bell.")he mentions camph, bell.hep. Why camphor would be crude?

or "under ignatia'" all are dynamized except coffee camphor and vinegar?
If the remedy is in the dynamized form only (aboove 12c) how can crude coff or camph ever get it?

Seems that it's all RELATIVE.
Astra2012 last decade
how does one determine with 100% accuracy whom or whom will not be effected by coffee (or any other dietary substance ) during treatment?
John Stanton last decade
These are the excerpts from my first post.

as long as you are not addicted to coffee, it won't antidote.

What he means by addiction is that you should get some symptoms like headache, uneasiness etc, if you miss your coffee.

If you are not that type,and even if you miss your coffee for a day, nothing happens to you, then coffee can't antidote.

Is it not better to say abstain from coffee, if it causes you any symptoms if you miss it.

bandarbabu2000 last decade
A lot of people who are addicted to coffee do not even know that they are addicted. Besides coffee is highly acidic and should be avoided in general interest of health.

There is a saying in India, which when translated (from sanskrit) goes like this ....

"Why do you need a medicine if you take right food. And what will a medicine do if you take wrong kind of food!"
puneet last decade
Dear Puneet

I don't accept that people don't know that they are addicted to coffee.They know it,as they get something like a headache or some other problem,if they miss their customary coffee.

So,it is a question to be added while case taking.

If they say they get a headache,if they stop coffee,tell them to choose between their coffee and cure.

Otherwise if they say,I don't feel anything if I miss my coffee,tell them to reduce it.

This way more people will come to homeopathy,which is good for the mankind as a whole.

bandarbabu2000 last decade
Puneet: that's a nice saying but although I agree that food could be a medicine it is only to some extend-and you need remedies etc too.
Besides we are not opposing healthy lifestyle (BY NO MEANS) but discussing the potential (or its lack) of coffee (in customary amount) to antidote homeopathic remedies.
Murthy-who said that it depends on addiction?
Actually I'm puzzled with other antidoting now:rhus t by cold shower. How do you understand that one? How cold would that shower have to be?
Sounds like a non-sense!
Astra2012 last decade
lets keep this discussion valid--"sounds like non-sense " is only an opinion--and has no validatable proof...but rhus-t response being affected by cold shower is validatable...

see much of what is referred to as 'antidote' isn't in fact as such---action may cease or aggravtion may occur---one need understand the modalities of particular remedy envolvedas well as ameliorations...often we only address the secondary symptomology and do not see into the interior of the disease--here is where concern for dietary-enviremental effects are shaped...
John Stanton last decade
I have an interesting story, perhaps someone would be willing to comment on it. Our homeopath says my husband's remedy is Colubrina (Nux Vomica). He drinks a lot of coffee. He gets heart burn, gas, and diareah often but Colubrina always helps. Colubrina has prevented many harsh a stomach flu for him. I'm willing to read comments about his case because I am not a homeopath, only a patient and self taught student of homeopathy.
peace last decade
Dear Astra

John is right.

"much of what is referred to as 'antidote' isn't in fact as such---action may cease or aggravtion may occur---"

Rhustox is said to be a remedy for complaints coming out of getting wet,particulary in rain.Why everybody is not affected by rain?The people who need Rhustox have a susceptibility to get affected by rain.Right?
Then,why risk taking a cold shower,when it is physically equivalent to rain?

A cold shower,means ,well,let us say,something less than your body temperature.

Whatever, I say, normally ,has reference, in some book or the other,but,I may not be able to hunt it out,quickly,as I have more than 300 books.

Let me see if I can provide you some reference.

bandarbabu2000 last decade
smae apply to coffee --or anything in fact--yet since we know not personal idiosycrancies then full restrictions are required--and reintroduced slowly --monitoring responce --tell what is wise?
John Stanton last decade
Hi Astra

I got thr reference for what I said regarding Rhustox and cold water bathing.

It is in vithoulkus's "Talks on Homeopathy" page no.283,second chapter.

"The cold bath you must remeber in Rhus-t.can be so aggravating that it can antiote your remedy.If you have given Rhus-t,to somebody and they take a cold bath,you may see that the remedy is antidoted.....So,when you give Rhus-t,tell the person to wash less and not in cold water."

So,my non-sense does make sense.

bandarbabu2000 last decade
This is in answer to Astra and John regarding "addiction to coffee."

The reference is again in the same book by Vitholkus,page 17,chapter 3.


Coffee disrupts a person if it gives the person a sense of well being.If you drink coffee and you say "Oh,I am sleepy,so let us have some coffee."and you take coffee,and you wake up.That is the time when you will definitely antidote the remedy.But certain people can drink coffee without antidoting their remedy.


Vithoulkus also in general is against coffee.But.he is not dogmatic.He accepts that certain cases won't be affected by coffee.

I am also not saying coffee is o.k.Once again see the heading of this topic.

"Coffee doesn't antidote in all cases."

What I am trying to insist is make it a point to ask this question while case taking,and advise to stop it,when you are sure he is susceptible to coffee.

I am glad that this discussion is getting lot of attention.

Do, a google search "coffee homeopathy" and this topic comes out,as the fifth or sixth one from the top.

bandarbabu2000 last decade
you will find similar statement by h. boyd "introduction to homoeopathic medicine" ---in referance "...to stopping ordinary bath in order to keep themselves under the influence of rhus-t..."
John Stanton last decade
Dear peace

What is "Colubrina".Though you said it is Nux.v,I never heard this alternative name.

Is it a combination product.?Can you read the lable and tell us what it is?

bandarbabu2000 last decade
why take chance? just avoid..even if you ask --can you be 100% sure it will not affect at all?
John Stanton last decade
Dear John

There are many patients, who can get benefit from homeopathy,despite their taking coffee.

If you tell in the first interview itself, don't take cofee,they may not even try homeopathy.

Suppose, you don't say anything about coffee,and the patient is a person, who can get benefitted,despite taking coffee,he will get relief,and will believe in homeopathy.

Now,take the case of a person,who gets affected by coffee.He comes back and tells you,that either the medicine worked for a short time,or didn't work at all.
That's the time to probe about coffee.If you are sure of your medicine, tell him he has to choose between his coffee or cure.

My whole point is don't drive away those people who can get benefit,despite their coffee, from homeopathy,by insisting that they should abstain from coffee.

bandarbabu2000 last decade
Found some good discussion on coffee in a mailing list archive here ....

puneet last decade
Thanks Puneet

"Yes, I have seen that coffee can antidote some remedies. Interestingly
enough, it seems to me that the higher the potency of the administered
remedy, the more the antidoting effect. This is yet another reason to use
low potency and LM potency remedies on a daily basis instead of a "one dose
and wait" approach. For dedicated coffee drinkers, it is an addiction and
telling them to stop dead cold is nearly impossible. They may agree, but
you can virtually guarantee that they will sneak that cup now and then
because they really do need it. If they get the remedy daily, any
antidoting effects are minimized.

I feel dreadfully sorry for Homeopaths who cannot drink coffee. BBecause I
can't see, I come in contact with my remedies on a regular bases, even
though one is not supposed to, so coffee is a way I try to insure that I
anditode any effects I pick up that I didn't want. Ideally, one should
never touch a remedy directly, but this isn't an ideal world."

This is what is there as far as coffee is concerned,other than saying that,Hannemann and vithoulkus are against coffee usage.

Thanks for bringing out another interseting aspect of coffee.

bandarbabu2000 last decade
Thanks Murthy for this discussion.
Cold shower/rhus tox. wouldn't be under "antidoting" then but under "remove the cause"-I think.
That would make sense.
Astra2012 last decade
We are up in Canada. One time I ordered Nux Vomica and received a product called Colubrina. I called our homeopath and asked about the name (I thought I had gotten the wrong product) but she said it was the same, two names, same product. It is a single remedy in liquid form. We only have the liquid forms, that is what the doctor in our area precribes.
Hope that explains.
peace last decade
Looks like Nux Vomica goes by name Colubrina in Canada.

See ....
puneet last decade

What ever you may call it,now you should agree that,it is better to advise patients not to take cold showers,as long as they are on Rhustox.Right?

bandarbabu2000 last decade
Dear Peace and Puneet

Thanks for the clarification.

As far as the question of Nux-v is concerned,it helps people who eat lot of spicy food,and who,in general are indiscriminate in their food habits.This is despite coffee.

Nux-v is a very good acute remedy.Its most important guiding symtom is "frequent,ineffectual desire for stool."

If the causation and this symtom matches,it works wonderfully in such cases.

bandarbabu2000 last decade
Hello Murthy,
To me it is a great difference-not in the name but in being logical.
if your symptoms are caused by something you avoid that "something" even if you take no remedy. No drug or treatment can help if you don't remove the cause. cold shower does not antidote Rhus but it keeps symptoms (caused by it) showing despite Rhus.

Sorry, I took the focus off coffee. (how about tea? I drink neither so it isn't personal).But I drink fruit juices-do they antidote too? Where is the border between being logical and being paranoid?
Astra2012 last decade
I read normal tea doesn't antidote,but herbal tea is to be avoided.I don't think fruit juices is a problem,unless you have acidity.

bandarbabu2000 last decade
the real question is = what is the truth?
John Stanton last decade

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