Derealization- feelings of unreality _{Page 14 of 19}

What's up everyone? How are ya?
I thought I'd make some more comments. (I'm laid-off right now so I'll probably be posting a lot. Besides, this is kinda fun.)
Anyway...I'malive's post was very interesting. I'm amazed at the similiarities throughout all these posts; there seems to be 3 major themes. Some posts may touch on only one, others on all three. Anxiety (worry of the self), weed (or some form of mind-altering drug), and spiritualism. Or maybe there's only one larger theme throughout most of these posts: SELF. I'malive's post is very interesting. I'm not sure I agree with that theory there (just seems to be SO many theories, you know). But I don't think it's without merit either. I do think most of us here do or have had to some extent very strong (or should I say active) minds. I do think this is why dp/dr happens. Too much mind. There is an ebook by Dr. Ronnie Freedman on dp/dr with the simple theory that it's a defense mechanism of the brain: too much energy is being used by the mind so the brain cuts-down on certain activity to conserve energy and thus heal itself. This would explain why we see things in such detail or see 'more' of something. It's the same reason people are more in tune to certain things on weed; it cuts down on various parts of the brains activity thus seemingly heighting other parts as well. Take this for example: It's like watching TV when there is a lot of activity going on around you (other people talking, traffic, etc.) so you have to turn the volume up to, say, 30 to hear and understand what's going on. But at night when maybe your in bed and all is quiet you only have to turn the volume up to 12. If we kept it up at 30 it would seem almost insanely loud. But we don't have a volume knob on our sight (for example), so when the brain shut's off or slows down parts of our brain (what the people talking and traffic represent)then our sight, still turned up to 30, seems and is more intense. And what are some of the activy that is being cut-down? For me one of the things I notice is that I'm not as quick in thought, my recall. Which is interesting. If her theory is correct, it makes sense that my thought faculities would be something that would be slowed down. According to her theory, it's too much thinking that got me here in the first place. Of course this doesn't mean the theory in I'malive's post couldn't be right either. In a broader scope they could both be right. But who knows. I don't think it matters. Somehow we all ended up here and we all know where we'd like to go. It's getting there that seems to be the issue. Well, if I have anything to say, there has been very good advice from just the past couple of posts from I'malive and sunnyisorange. One talks of being in the NOW as a way out of dp/dr, the other of a stong mind unable to go with the flow of life as the cause of dp/dr. I myself have commented on the very same issues, as have others. Why? How come we haven't seen posts from someone saything that they believe the cause for dp/dr is from eating too much or There are three themes here: Anxiety (stress, worry), weed (which alomst everyone here, just prior to the onset of dp/dr, here has had an anxiety/panic attack while using) and last but not least, the SELF (which is the source of the anxiety.) It's just our minds people, the source of all suffering. And I'm looking at you sunnyisorange on this one. I can see you are on the right track, keep doing what you are doing. By doing that life will only get better day after day. But may I point out (and I think you realize this) you weren't fully there on your walk. Self-conciousness is your mind. And you know that. ( I see you read eckhart tolle. Thank god for eckhart, he is reaching so many people.) But you were worried about what other people thought about your post. Why? I doubt anyone read that and thought it was stupid or flippant. It comes from the mistaken belief you are not good enough. And where does that come from? Well, I hope I'm not getting too personal (you are completely anonymous so I wouldn't worry)but a lot it is obviously undoubtedly from the abuse you spoke of. I was never abused but I know some people who were in some form, even dated a girl who was abused, and I know it can wreak havoc on a person's self-esteem. (This can loosely apply to anyone reading this who has low-self esteem, abused or not.) Traumatic experiences can echo in our minds forever shaping every subsequent event, shaping our lives. A father's harsh diapproving voice can over time convince someone that there is something wrong with them, that they are not good enough, or unworthy. The feeling 'not-good-enough' then becomes how that person indentifies themselves. So that 'not-good-enough' for the father becomes 'not good enough' for my partner, 'not good enough' for my boss, 'not-good-enough' to share my opninions with others, 'not good enough' to post my thoughts on a forum without someone thinking it's stupid. So when one of you out there feels 'stupid' at some point in your life, you've more than likely labled your self 'not-good-enough' and the more often you catch this the more that self-imposed label will dissolve. Which will create less stress,you being happier and more 'you', which will help dissolve the dp/dr as well. (Look at that I tied it all back together.) To sum up: most of us here know anxiety all too well, the worry of self in some way, which causes dp/dr, and the best thing we can do is learn to go with flow and be in the now. Okay my fingers are sore so I should stop. And by the looks of things I'm still unemployed so I'll probably be checking in gain sometime. Later.

Hi dikkid,

Yes, you are right. I have self-esteem issues. And you are right to pick up on the fact that I wasn't being in the 'now' on my walk. I realize that I was labelling myself again as someone who isn't good enough to post things.

I have some low self-esteem issues, that's for sure. Thank you for touching on that. In fact, I've never posted on a forum before. I always think I'm not part of the 'cool' forum-writing inner-group or something. I can't really describe it. I know such a thing doesn't exist. And yet, I feel I'm not in it! :-)

I was searching for a remedy for a related problem when this post caught my eye. And I felt everyone was being so open and honest that it was semi safe to post.

Unfortunately, my mind is programmed to try to reach out and trust, only to regret it severely the instant after I've done it.

I know this about myself. I'm trying to overcome it. But I really don't know how. I thought maybe I could find a remedy for it. Any ideas? Homeopathy is a complex issue. But, if anyone's had any luck with one...

Good news about homeopathy is I believe it really cleared up my anxiety. Well, the form that shows up as tightness/tension in my chest and struggling to breath/an urge to disappear. After a few months it just lifted. I can go out in public places without these harrowing symptoms.

AND I also read Eckart's book in that period. And reading it also gave me the sense that my anxiety was lifting merely by becoming the observer of the anxiety itself.

And also, gaining the awareness of the difference between primordial fear and my body's response to the 'idea' or 'memory' of fear...

p 133 'An instinctive response is the body's direct response to some external situation. An emotion, on the other hand, is the body's response to a thought.'

This taught me to distinguish between the original event or events that scared me as a child and sent my defense mechanisms into overdrive, and the mere memory of them.

Since the past no longer exists, the original thing that scared me cannot exist either. So why do I panic? Why does adrenaline surge and my heartbeat race?, twitch? can't breath etc? Because my body cannot understand that I'm feeling afraid of a memory!

When I come back to the now, either by watching my breath, or simply observing all these bodily reactions taking place, or watching my thoughts, I get some distance from the memory of the thing that's scaring me.

I can get a new perspective. I can realize that the original danger is no longer present. It no longer exists and my fears are simply based on a memory, or 'thought'.

I really hope that anyone who's reading this can get some of that peaceful distance too.


I'm glad you shared the theory of Dr Ronnie Freedman. It makes a lot of sense.

One thing I realize now is that it really helps to know that I had trauma as a kid. There must so many people who don't even remember or are aware that they had trauma.

I didn't even realize it until a few years ago! Not that I didn't remember what happened to me. But I just didn't think it was such a big deal. I minimized it to avoid dealing with the pain. I thought it was normal, so to speak. But that was just another defense mechanism.

Even now, I'm trying to figure out how to move on. I just don't know what to do.

And yes, I agree with you, people who have dp and dr seem to be thinkers. That does seem to be a common thread here. And I do think that drugs somehow do lift that defense we put up to stop memories from leaking out of our subconscious, where it's safe! Like nuclear waste burried in the ground.

Something about drugs just lifts that barrier a bit. Just enough so we catch a glimpse of it! And boom! We freak out because it's so terribly painful and we're afraid it's coming back to 'get us'!

I think it's a good sign, to think a lot and to feel dp and dr. I kind of see it as a sign that maybe our minds are trying to tell us that we're ready to face that trauma. It's like the past gurgling up to the surface somehow, after being repressed for so long.

If we weren't ready, our minds would keep everything locked up deep down in the subconscious. We'd be safe, sure. But...I really think that we all have the desire to clear this stuff up, face it, and let it go, and move on.

So, that's what I meant when I said 'don't be afraid of it'. I meant, we could view the dp and dr as ways that our minds are sort of waffling between really letting everything out, and keeping everything down, maintaining the status quo.

It shows we're strong, like you said. I think there's a part of us that really wants to take a look at the trauma or the scary stuff. And then, when we realize just how scary it is, our minds suddenly say, stop! I'm not ready. And boom, you go into derealization to halt any further gurgling up.


Maybe, and this is a big maybe, we could try just allowing whatever happens to be ok. To not become too involved with memories that surface. We have to maintain the belief that NOTHING can hurt us again simply based on the logic that the past no longer exists.

Maybe just try a bit each day. Something might gurgle to the surface. A brief flash of something scary. And we can say to ourselves: this is only a memory. It's not happening now. I don't have to react to it. If it were happening now, since I'm adult, I'd run, or I'd tell the police, or I'd defend myself. But most importantly, I would not let myself be hurt again.

I wanted to add one thing: I don't think that one's trauma as a child has to be extreme for it to have a negative effect on that child's psyche. I mean, anytime a kid is yelled at, ignored, goes through a divorce or even told to shut up...these things can be just as damaging as physical or sexual abuse.

I just didn't want anyone to think that they had to have extremely toxic abuse in order to make sense of why they may have dp or dr.

I learned that a kid so intensely depends of his/her parents for their survival, that even something as seemingly banal as divorce could be perceived by the kid as a threat to his security or that he/she's unlovable. It's enough to arrest his/her development, or scar his/her self-esteem and trigger defense mechanisms that would plunge these fears into the subconcious.

And we grow up, living our life, not understanding why we run from relationships and don't feel lovable, or don't feel good enough for this or that. It's these beliefs about ourselves that we created at these times of 'trauma' in our self-esteem development.

It looks like we found something similar in each other. Thinkers, as long as i remember, ive alwyas been a deep thinker. first i thought that i have a selective memory when i started realizing that i often dont remember things that i talked about my gf about...i notice im thinking about something else and not listening to anyone. racing thoughts. is anyone here has any hobbies like art?music? or anything artistic... i read up online that artistic people more likely to get DR DP..

Yes. I was wondering those ?'s myself, aliencenet. I'm a musician, and writer. I've dabbled in painting (my father is an art teacher) but I suck. And what's crazy is that those things, which are some of the things I love doing most, also tends to cause me the most stress. Whenever I record a song, or write something, I feel it could always be better. (Although, I've cut myself some slack on these posts.) I just don't know when to stop 'improving' something. It's the whole 'Art is never finished only abandonded' thing. I don't know when to abandon.

Good question though, aliencenet. I wouldn't be surprised if we all have many simularities. I mean, is there anyone else here among us that thinks the sounds of recorded rain and ocean waves makes great party music, or wishes they could reincarnate as Bob Barker while at the grocery store (not becaues he knows his retail values, but because he's a chick magnet), or thinks that, unequivicoally, Norbit was the best movie ever made. Anyone? Anyone? No?
Okay. How about this, Anyone else have a strange sense of humor? (I hope nobody has seriously thought those aforementioned things above. If you have I apologise. And advise you to seek professional help.)
Seriously though, I'm curious as to what kind of personality types are posting here, just to see if there are any simularities.

Thanks, Dikkid, and everyone else for your great posts. Referring back to an earlier post (I've been away from the forum for a few days), I don't necessarily long to 'get over this' or 'get back to the way I was' for the 'way I was' was an extremely miserable teenager ( I was about 18 when this set in.)

The way I am now is a very accomplished 30-something year old.

But I would just love to be back on earth, to truly see and hear my daughter's smile and laughter, without having to FOCUS so darned hard, to truly feel the wind as it rushes through the trees, rather than thinking 'Oh, the wind is rushing through the trees, that should be nice.'

Y'know?

Anyways, I appreciate your personality discussion, as well as the levels of abuse comment posted by sunnyisorange. Sometimes quiet, controlling abuse can be very damaging to a person's self-concept.

Wishing you well. mazou

very interesting. Im a musician myself. love to write music and poems...hehe most of the time i dont finish a song or a poem because i think that they're not worthy...so i rewrite them many times. yeaa

Mazou, I'm so glad you posted again. I truly feel for you.

That wind comment, I'm with you there on that one. That is probably one of the main things I 'miss.' I never realized how much I loved the feeling of a morning breeze coming through my bedroom window until the dp/dr set in. If I'm comparing it to the way things were before the dp/dr I'd say it somehow feels there is a shield or force field around me that absorbs it (or something like that.)

Anyway Mazou, I don't know how extreme your condition is (has it at all gotten any better over the years, even the slightest?) I know when this first set in for me (this 2nd bout; this has happened to me before)it was worse than I had ever experienced. I couldn't concentrate on anything, time felt like it was being chopped up into 3 second intervals and what had just happened I felt I could hardly remember, or what did happen didn't feel like it may have actually happened. I didn't know what to do with myself. I didn't want to talk to anyone (except those who knew I was going through this) because I could hardly follow or make any conversation. I couldn't watch TV or read. I tried to bide my time with solitaire but found myself continually missing moves and forgetting if I was on the 3rd, 2nd, or single rotation. I thought my God I don't care if things look weird or feel weird, but if I can't even function enough to play a game of solitaire I might as well be dead. My only salvation was running and meditation. Over time I have found my concentration has gotten much better. And it was solitaire that I've used as my meter. Once I started winning games and not forgetting which rotation I was on I was now on a path to hope. I said to myself, 'okay, things still look weird, sounds still are still my hands still feels like dead pieces of meat BUT... I know today is better than it was just a couple weeks ago because now I can play a game of solitaire. And there is no reason for me to think that everything else as well will get better.'

From that point on I try to think about it as little as possible (I do here and there). I mean, I know everything around me is real, as real as it's ever been anyway. I no longer remind myself of that. I see myself and everything as real, for now though it's just different, neither good nor bad. Just different. Try imagining that you were born this way, that this was all you've ever known. Or better yet, this was literally your first day alive. You wouldn't question what is real or how things 'should' because you have no reference point--the past. You see, Mazou, I wonder if you are trying to see and hear with your 'old' eyes and 'old' ears, that's to say the way you would have before any of this happened. Maybe you need to FOCUS because, like I was experiencing, time feels chopped up and it is truly hard to concentrate, but if that is not the case I would like to know why you are focusing so hard. If it is to try to feel and see what it is 'really' like (your daughters smile) then you might still be comparing your experiences to what it was like prior to the dp/dr, which will make for a disconnect with what is happening in the moment, which can only cause pain. I don't know how this condition came about for you and who is to say it will ever go away (there are many who would say that it would. I myself that it can.)but thing I'm almost sure of is that you have to go with the flow, and not compare it to when you didn't have this condition. No, that breeze from my window that washes over me in the morning doesn't feel like it used to, but I can still enjoy how it DOES feel. Because it is there, it does cause me to feel both on my skin and in emotion, maybe in a way it never has before but it is happening and it's very real. Act as if whatever is happening was the first time you've ever experienced it and move from there. It may help.

Mazou, I'm so glad you posted again. I truly feel for you.

That wind comment, I'm with you there on that one. That is probably one of the main things I 'miss.' I never realized how much I loved the feeling of a morning breeze coming through my bedroom window until the dp/dr set in. If I'm comparing it to the way things were before the dp/dr I'd say it somehow feels there is a shield or force field around me that absorbs it (or something like that.)

Anyway Mazou, I don't know how extreme your condition is (has it at all gotten any better over the years, even the slightest?) I know when this first set in for me (this 2nd bout; this has happened to me before)it was worse than I had ever experienced. I couldn't concentrate on anything, time felt like it was being chopped up into 3 second intervals and what had just happened I felt I could hardly remember, or what did happen didn't feel like it may have actually happened. I didn't know what to do with myself. I didn't want to talk to anyone (except those who knew I was going through this) because I could hardly follow or make any conversation. I couldn't watch TV or read. I tried to bide my time with solitaire but found myself continually missing moves and forgetting if I was on the 3rd, 2nd, or single rotation. I thought my God I don't care if things look weird or feel weird, but if I can't even function enough to play a game of solitaire I might as well be dead. My only salvation was running and meditation. Over time I have found my concentration has gotten much better. And it was solitaire that I've used as my meter. Once I started winning games and not forgetting which rotation I was on I was now on a path to hope. I said to myself, 'okay, things still look weird, sounds still are still my hands still feels like dead pieces of meat BUT... I know today is better than it was just a couple weeks ago because now I can play a game of solitaire. And there is no reason for me to think that everything else as well will get better.'

From that point on I try to think about it as little as possible (I do here and there). I mean, I know everything around me is real, as real as it's ever been anyway. I no longer remind myself of that. I see myself and everything as real, for now though it's just different, neither good nor bad. Just different. Try imagining that you were born this way, that this was all you've ever known. Or better yet, this was literally your first day alive. You wouldn't question what is real or how things 'should' because you have no reference point--the past. You see, Mazou, I wonder if you are trying to see and hear with your 'old' eyes and 'old' ears, that's to say the way you would have before any of this happened. Maybe you need to FOCUS because, like I was experiencing, time feels chopped up and it is truly hard to concentrate, but if that is not the case I would like to know why you are focusing so hard. If it is to try to feel and see what it is 'really' like (your daughters smile) then you might still be comparing your experiences to what it was like prior to the dp/dr, which will make for a disconnect with what is happening in the moment, which can only cause pain. I don't know how this condition came about for you and who is to say it will ever go away (there are many who would say that it would. I myself that it can.)but thing I'm almost sure of is that you have to go with the flow, and not compare it to when you didn't have this condition. No, that breeze from my window that washes over me in the morning doesn't feel like it used to, but I can still enjoy how it DOES feel. Because it is there, it does cause me to feel both on my skin and in emotion, maybe in a way it never has before but it is happening and it's very real. Act as if whatever is happening was the first time you've ever experienced it and move from there.

Sorry about the double posts. Don't know what happend.

Anyway, this is in response to aliencents most recent post.

Feeling's of unworthiness. I've noticed sunnyisorange expressed similiar feelings. (I want to say she when refering to sunnyisorange for some reason, if he/she isn't I apologize. May just be the name.) I myself have struggled with those feelings as well. What the f----'s up with that? Of course a lot of people do to some extent you know. For some it's debilatating though. I've found ways to overcome a lot of that if anyone's interested.

dikkid,
yeah i dont know its very annoying and disturbing. ive been always shy, especially socially...very insecure...never could be myself really... especially when i started having relationship, i always felt like i had to be someone else... im constantly afraid of people judging or looking at me wierd. i cant do public speaking, i get panic attacks...i hate when we have to introduce ourselves in school...especially if im not the first one to introduce...my heart starts beating and i just wanna run away..and i cant understand why i fell this way, its like im afraid to be embarrased or people making fun of me or something...i know its stupid but i cant control it, its like a phobia of being judged or something. grrrr...

hi i am new to this forum. i've been reading over many of the posts and they truly comfort me. im glad i am obviously not alone in facing this scary new state of mind.
im feeling frustrated because i keep trying to remember what my 'old' self felt like. reading the previous posts is helping me realize that i need to embrace the new me and not worry about the dp/dr constantly.
i can totally relate to you aliencenet. i am a freshman in college and feel extremely shy/intimidated in my classes. i never speak up for fear of being judged or laughed at. i even feel uncomfortable just sitting in class because i sense (in my head of course) that everyone else is looking at me and judging me. this sounds like a weird question but....does this mean i have self-esteem issues? its funny, because i never thought i had these issues and it feels weird that the issues are coming up now, in college. i always associated self-consciousness with middle and high schoolers....it makes me wonder if im going through a developmental stage late? or if my one-time marijuana use just exposed suppressed feelings i had? im not sure...but does anyone have any tips for how to overcome these self-conscious problems??

Aliencenet,
hey, I've read through some of your past posts and how you went to your doctor for your physical symptoms. Did any of them suggest to you that your symptoms were common anxiety symptoms? I can't believe no one would have caught that. I see you are reading the Linden method, I've heard a lot about that. How's it worked for you? Getting an understanding on what is happening helps a lot. There is a book out there you might want to check out. It's called What Will They Think of Me. It's by Emily Ford. I actually went to high school with her, she was a friend of my cousin. She recounts her school years with Social Anxiety Disorder and how she has worked her way through it.
One thing that helped me with SAD was to realize that these feelings of unworthiness and worrying about how I was percieved were only being perpetuated by myself. Catch yourself (rather, your mind)in those moments of self-doubt/anxiety and realize it's only a habit of the mind to see yourself as unworthy. You have just as much right to be and do what you want as anyone else, it's just your habit of mind that is telling you otherwise, and you believe it. Who knows what someone else is thinking about you? I remember being in jr high, playing basketball with a bunch of other guys I didn't know too well during lunch abreak. I didn't really feel like I belonged, I figured they thought I was uncool and too scrawny to be there, but a good friend of mine was playing and wanted me to play so I played. Well, as the game went on, they started jokingly trash-talking one another but at the time it felt like they were coming down extra hard on me. So, in an extremely uncharacteristc move, I through the ball across the court and challeged them to fight saying something like 'You wanna go! Let's go.' I'll never forget the confused and dumbfounded looks on their faces. I continued to goad them. 'I don't want to fight you,' one of them said. ' Yeah, why not?' I said, still angry. 'Because you'll probably kick my ass,' he said. Everything inside me stopped. What? He thought I could kick HIS ass, me this percieved weakling. Then another guy spoke up. 'What's wrong with you,' he said. 'I used to think you were cool, but now you're just a dick.' I just stood there humbled, I couldn't believe it. I walked away from the game but I walked away with the beginning of a realiztaion that I couldn't always believe what was in my head.

There are 6 billion plus people on this planet, with each person being able to do some things better than others, some things not as good, and some things not at all. We ALL have that in common. But... No ONE is any better or any worse than any ONE else as a whole. And not everyone is going to 'get' you either. Who is 'got' by everyone? Stop thinking about what other people would want from you and start think what you want.

tuffy45,
this is exactly what i think.. i always think maybe its just a new development stage ( which i always think im behind), my brain is adjusting to new levels of chemicals or maybe this is what grown up life is!!! look at other people over 30 they dont act like kids...maybe its just a stage in our lives called adulthood and we see things slightly differently????
i wonder

Hi all,
That's right, dikkid, sunnyisorange is a female. Hmmm...what makes it sound feminine? the use of color?

I was gonna comment on feeling unworthy.

For tuffy45, I had very painful high school years ie, always feeling on the outside, never fit in, didn't have any friends, didn't trust anybody. But anxiety and depressiondidn't hit me til I was older, too. I don't think there's any clear cut periods of time that dictate when it's 'normal' to go through certain stages. Everyone's different. So, whatever is happening to you is ok because you're you.

One book that really helped me was Feeing Good: The New Mood Therapy by David D. Burns, MD. It's really great and I even refer back to it now. It has exercises you can do to help you understand the root of your anxiety and/or mood swings. I was fortunate enough to be able to work through it with a therapist. He recommended it.

Maybe there are some counsillors at your school you could see and perhaps suggest using this book in some of our sessions? It was one of the forerunners of Cognitive Therapy, which believes that we can change the way we think to control our moods.

I'd say the marijuana use can really bring a lot different stuff up for different people. I'm not an expert, but I do know that it heightens our senses, so one might sense their world differently than before.


For dikkid, I really could relate to your advice to Mazou:

If it is to try to feel and see what it is 'really' like (your daughters smile) then you might still be comparing your experiences to what it was like prior to the dp/dr, which will make for a disconnect with what is happening in the moment, which can only cause pain.

I agree. When we don't focus on the present moment, we will most likely feel pain. Either someone has let you down in the past, (ie, my parents etc) or you're worried your expectations won't be fulfilled in the future. This also leads to feeling like the victim because you believe that people in your past or in your future have some kind of control over you.

I'm starting to learn (slowly!) that the only time we can really feel peace is if we focus on being in the present moment. It's the only 'real' state. Neither the past nor the future exist. So,how can we expect to find peace if we're always trying to exist in 'non-realities'wiht unrealistic expectations?

By the way, how was it for you growing up, given your Dad is an artist. Did you ever feel second-rate?

Re: feelings of unworthiness...it sounds like those are some great ways to overcome those feelings. Thanks for sharing them.

I really struggle with those feelings in relationships. It's horrible.

If I'm just friends, it's ok. But as soon as it gets to be more than that, suddenly I'm not good enough. It's like I lose value when someone really cares for me. I even start believing that person doesn't love me for no particular reason except that I don't deserve it.

It's come to the point where I've given up. I just say to myself 'I guess I'm just meant to be alone.' I've always been solitary. I know it comes from my past - I was often deprived of having choices or power over myself.

The painful thing is that I'm aware of this, and yet I don't know how to change it.

Anyone have any ideas?

Re: strange sense of humour and artistic sense in common

Dikkid asked if anyone had a strange sense of humour and if anyone was artistic.

As for humour, what do you mean by strange? I think the things you mentioned, ie coming as back as Bob Barker and ocean and rain sounds were funny, but not strange. Do you think you have a strange sense of humour? Maybe you feel unsure? I think we could all agree that you just see things through your own eyes and touch on things that we've all thought but never thought to say it. And that's funny.

I tend to make people laugh when I'm just trying to be normal. So I don't really think I have a sense of humour. But people think I do. I wouldn't say I have a strange sense of humour. I used to think I had a strange sense of humour. But I hesitate to use the word strange now b/c I see 'strange' as maybe a bit putting myself down. And I'm really trying to work on my self-esteem. I figure I should start by seeing the good in myself, b4 others can.


Re: artistic. Yeah, I'm pretty creative. I like writing, making things with paper and glueing it and stuff :-p I also love animals.

I think everyone's born an artist and as we grow up the world tends to hammer it out of us. We have to be more 'practical' and 'constructive' and not be as intuitive as we were when we were very young.

I'm starting to see there does seem to be a certain type of person who is capable of feeling more of everything - good things, and bad, more deeply than others. And those people also do tend to be artists of some kind.

sunnyisorange, i was really touched by all your recent posts. your experiences seem oddly similar to mine, how you feared being only a brain, the chidhood trauma causing some esteem issues.. but mostly how you feel this new wave of understanding the sharded conciousness of the world.. under all the anxety i have always had this sense of mystic growth rather than 'derealization'. at first it was all about the confusion and helplessness, but now that i have focused my energy on living with and undertsanding it, it's more of a really strange feeling of hope and aniticipation. i feel like i have allowed myself to be let in on a tiny part of a big secret.
i used to be terrified that i was only neurons and hormones, it was this mindset that casued my feelings of sadness turn into feelings of insanity.
but as Descartes put it, 'cogito, ergo sum.' ( i think, thereore i am.) pretty simple, pretty brilliant. i really do think the world is comming to some new realization of what we are, and having said that, i do agree that DErealization is not the way we should label it. its good to see that others are seeing the brighter side of this experience.

even though i do have a more positive outlook on life i cant seem to fight the feelings of having everyone against me.. its a weird balance and i sympathize with you, tuffy45. sometimes i feel like everyone is whispering about me, like im the center of my own mockery and im the only one who doesnt know what's going on. i get really paranoid sometimes and its hard to convince myself that it's just that, that it's only in my head. this is the one thing that i fear i will never beat. my esteem issues cause me so much pain, to the extent of not knowing how to sit in a class room becuase 'they're all' watching me... which also leads to feeling like you have a strange sense of humor.. that comes along with being artistic. artistic people do tend to have a different sense of humor because we obviously see thigs alot differently than everyone else does.. ive always been creative and my dark, 'out-there' sense of humour is what pushed me into Film making.

Hi all,

I was just coming into the forum to recommend something that has also worked for me in overcoming anxiety. And then I'll comment on dikkid's recent post.

The recommendation is a great set of tapes and a handbook all downloadable called:

Overcoming Social Anxiety
Step by Step
The Social Anxiety Institute

It's put out by

The Social Anxiety Institute, Thomas A. Richards, Ph.D., Director

I found it online. He actually coaches you through your anxieties on the tapes. Just listening to his voice is so calming in itself.

Anyway, even glancing at the table of contents made me realize some of the things I do that makes me anxious. And after doing just the first few sections, I became more aware of my automatic negative thoughts. Just getting aware that I have them seemed to really take away their power over me.

...(Again, it's kind of like Eckart talking about observing yourself and your thoughts in the present moment and realizing that my negative thoughts are just my ego or the 'I' that I think I am. But I am not just my thoughts. If I'm aware of them they can't control me.)

Re dikkid's comment on 'I think, therefor I am'...I think it's so true...if we keep thinking we are who we 'think' we are, we can't really get any freedom from changing that mindset. I find it's so liberating to know that.

Also, I do still think that that remedy I took did help with my social anxiety. It seems homeopathy can really lift stuff off of my mind. It really shifted me. I used to have all those automatic negative thoughts (ANTS) too, like they're thinking I'm an idiot, no matter I say it'll sound stupid. Then my chest would seize up, I couldn't breath etc.

But I don't feel such intense anxiety in social situations anymore.

Keep in mind, I did go for a session with a homeopath. I didn't just walk in to a pharmacy and get something for anxiety. I did that before and it didn't work.
(It was a derivative of valerian root. But it didn't go to the core somehow. I can't really explain it.)

Anyway, the contents of this course include topics like....

Slowing Down Deliberately: SlowTalk

Automatic Negative Thought Stoppage

Distraction Suggestions

Rational Coping Thoughts for Anxiety

The Fighting Paradox

How to Temporarily Cut Down Feelings of Anxiety
Therapy

Reminders

Attitudes

How You See Yourself & The World

Two Competing Neural Pathways in Your Brain

Beliefs are Very Potent

De-Stressing Strategies

The Social Anxiety 'Automatic' Cycle

Turning the Tables on ANTs, Part One

Accepting Myself As I Am Right Now

Stay Rational

If You Say 'I Hate This'

No! I don't HATE to do that

I used to hate (public speaking)

Your brain hears and believes everything

Changing Brain Chemistry Permanently

Mingling

Conversations

The Deserving Statements

Feelings, Feelings, and More Feelings

Worry... Leads to More Worry

Here's How We Handle Those Bullying Liars

Loosen Up and Let Stress Go

Self-Statements: Moving in a Positive Direction

Brainwashing

Poisonous Thoughts

Focusing - And how it keeps us away from anxiety

'I Can't Do It' Thinking

Stay Out of the Twilight Zone: Move Into the Peace Zone

Ways to Decrease Self-Consciousness

Letting Go of the Negative Past

Stay Away from Perfectionism and Pressure

Have a Rational Talk With Yourself Every Day

And the neat thing about this course is that he really stresses that delving into our past to try to figure out why we are the way we are isn't really the best course of action b/c it actually makes your anxiety worse...so he encourages just focusing on awareness of our ANT's and how to stop them.

(Incidently, that 'feeling good' book is very similar to this course. It's all along the cognitive behavioural therapy)

Re dikkid: so, what kind of films have you made?

Hi dikkid and everyone again,

I just wanted to say to dikkid I'm glad you felt touched. I'm actually learning from this forum that people aren't going to put me down for what I say thanks to your comments earlier too. It really does seem like we all have self-esteem issues. So, if we can support each other, I think we'll all make progress.

Re your comment: i used to be terrified that i was only neurons and hormones, it was this mindset that casued my feelings of sadness turn into feelings of insanity.

Could you expand on that? It seems you're getting to something...the core of d/p and d/r? It struck a chord with me. ‚h remember very often trying to disassociate from my body by telling myself I was only made up of nerves and molecules etc. It gave me that 'high' feeling, sort of not being in my body.

It's a way to avoid feeling pain somehow...if you convince yourself you're not the sum of your parts, but just the parts.

Hey, sunnyisorange and Veronicavix. Just making a few comments on the recent posts.

Hey, sunnyisorange and veronicavix. Just making a few comments on the recent posts.
First off sunnyisorange I can't take credit for saying I was touched or for making films (I have written screenplays though). That was veronicavix. That being said, please sunnyisorange, don't feel stupid or anything for making that mistake. I know you tend to worry about what people will think about your posts but it was just a mistake--no biggie. However, I truly have been touched by your posts, as well as others. I've taken some stock in what you said about my 'strange' sense of humour. Maybe I do feel a little unsure, I don't know. I do prize my sense of humour as one of my stronger characteristics but maybe there is a little something there. I'll think about it.

Veronicavix...you used to fear being neurons and hormones. If you read one of my earlier posts, I describe fearing I was my brain and how it affected me. I totally get what you are saying. One of the other things that used to cause me sadness/anger was the effect of our chemicals/hormones on our experiences. If I was happy, I wasn't really happy--it's just dopamine, endorphins etc giving my brain a drug--a cookie as a reward. If I was unhappy, it was just my brain now lacking these chemicals, my brain is getting no reward. And sex... chemicals and hormones to get me interested, to get me stimulated and then a BIG cookie for my brain at the end. Where the hell was I (big I) in all of this?! What role did I play? Was I just being taken for a ride as my brain functioned soley for its survival. Everything I believed and desired for myself came into question. I felt had nothing, nothing but confusion. It was the worst feeling I've ever had.

But I think that was a beginning of realizing who I wasn't rather than who I am. I no longer knew who I was but I also knew whoever or whatever I was it wasn't what I had previsouly thought myself to be. Thanks to a lot of texts I started reading shortly after the derealization set in (which was just after all these brain fears were floating around in my head)I was able to come with terms with my 'identity' crisis. Mainly the classic spiritual texts, as well as people like Deepach Chopra and Eckhart Tolle. I was about to say I'm changed person because of the DR but I guess I was already changing before the DR, the DR being a part of this change rather than the catalyst.
I've got to go but I want to post some some stuff later about the prevalancy of people feeling almost paranoid with how others are perceiving them. I admit I've been guilty of having social anxiety but not to the point where I think people are against me or they are whispering about me. I'd like to hear more from y'all on this. Until then...

hi everyone

its really good to hear that you guys understand what i mean when i talk about this whole 'brain fear'. you're right, sunnyisorange, you pointed out that this may be the cause of the DR. it does seem much more significant now that it's stood out to someone else aswell.
i have always been a little bit depressed since my father passed on. it has made me a very sensitive person and i am always on some egde, fearing the worst. when i first began to think about what i really was i was scared that i was only matter, i was so scared that th soul i once beelvied was there was only my brain surviving (as dikkid posted). the reason i feared this was because i held on so tightly to my beleif in life after death, and if there was no soul in me, i would simply perish some day and never see my father again. this drove me insane because it felt like there was so much proof against the existance of a soul and only this tiny sense of faith against what science tells me. now i see that this faith isn't so tiny, and if i was only chemicals and neurons, what is this other essence in me questioning it? maybe this gives you a little more insight to what can spark an unreal view of reality. what about you, sunny? with your own experience, what do you think brought it on for you? i can relate to this 'high' feeling.. im not a religious person but i do beelive in spiritual growth and i think this 'high' associated with dp is our conciousness venturing where it has never gone, and the reason it feels so unreal is because we fight to stay in this reality... who knows, im just thinking through typing, im no scientist nor buddhist monk..
dikkid you talk about deepach chopra, ive come across his name in bookstores and flipped through some pages. i do remember something standing out to me and i completly forgot about him until you mentioned his name in your post, i'm gonna look into his writings.. i'm very intruiged by what you said about you weren't what you had previously thought yourself to be. to me this is a nice reminder that drealization isn't the scary decsent into psychosis i once beleived it to be.

I medicated the other night. Had a combination of anti depressants, pain killers and hayfever tablets. I think this has made dp worse. I told my therapist about it and she said one of the chemicals would definitely make the dp feel worse. I can't remembr which one she said, but i figure if there's a chemical thatcan make it worse there must be a counter chemical that could make it better. Does anyone know what it could be?

I'm_alive - i think my therapist is trying to get me to see things from that perspective. She's suggested buddhist meditation and letting go of evaluating things being good or bad. However she's also not dp trained, I'm her first patient with this and judging by some things she says I don't think she really knows where I'm coming from. But has that approach helped you?

Does anyone else meidcate sometimes? How do you feel afterwards?
Also has anyone else here done drugs besides weed? I (stupidly) did ecstacy a few times and the last time it was so strong it made me black out. Since then I think the dp has been worse. That was I think about 3 years ago now.

Hi Veronicavix and dikkid:
Sorry about that...and ok, I won't feel stupid for the mistake Thanks for saying that...:-) (how can I put in a smiley face?)---but I'm still interested in your films :-p and screenplays.

I watched Eckhart Tolle and Oprah last night on the web. I thought it's kinda down our alley. They have a webcast class going every Monday night. So far there's about 5 million people signed up. (It's free, but there's a commercial every 20 mins or so, no big deal.)

It's really interesting. Go to Oprah dot com if you're interested. They talk about his latest book and they answer Skype calls from people all over the world.

I really got a lot out of it. They've done 6 lessons so far. You can download them whenever you want. I'm still watching lesson 2.

It has a lot of good stuff about staying in the moment. One thing he recommended was to admire nature to get back into the moment--just to look at a tree for what it is: it's majesty and beauty. That will help shift your attention away from all the mental interference or static (conditioned thoughts) to the 'now.'

I've always liked admiring nature. But now I can understand why. It immediately gives me peace from all the thoughts running through my brain...Tolle mentioned that many psychologists are now coming to the agreement that about 99% of our mental activity is unecessary, repetitive and causes us a lot of conflict and grief.

I've decided to free that 99% of my precious energy up so I become more present. It's working!

For Lalaland: please, please, don't medicate.

Hi Lalaland:

When I posted that recent post and talked about the Eckhart and Oprah webcast, I was talking to you too! I didn't mean to sound like I wasn't. I just mentioned your name at the end to really tell you I was asking you not to medicate because I really feel for you and I really don't think it will get you anywhere.

Please be kind to yourself! If you don't, who will? You have to take care of yourself before others can.

Just click on any downloadable 'anti anxiety' or 'anti mood' courses or books, etc, and you will see that there are many ways to get past what you're going through. Medication can help in the short run, but I don't think it's a long-term solution.

There's Deepak Chopra, Eckhart Tolle, those books that have been mentioned on previous posts -- and homeopathy really works too.

You CAN get over this. I think your therapist sounds quite good. If you have a good rapport with him/her, keep going. The main thing is to try to find a way to shift your attention from the automatic thoughts in your brain (ie, I'm no good, I can't do this, I don't deserve to live etc), and replace them with more positive thoughts. If you persist, these positive thoughts will become more automatic, and will replace the old negative ones. It doesn't happen over night. I don't think a magical pill for peace of mind exists. It involves work.

I've never felt any better after I've medicated. I think the best thing to do is look for a long term solution, which doesn't involve drugs.

Go for it!

Hey, Veronicavix...if you are interested in deepak chopra I suggest starting with his book How to Know God. He mixes spirituality and science to explain his view. It really struck a chord with me, especially the whole fear of being a brain thing.

This is for everyone here...do any of you make exercise a part of your lifestyle? If you don't, start now (but slowly). I run and/or work with weights everyday. It's one of the best things you can do for yourself physically and spiritually.